What Might Be The Best Way To Teach And Mentor New Saddle Makers?

[steve mason]

Great topic, it's been a fun and educational read.

For my take on this topic, I will and have "gave" some info out over the years, I have not "sold" it nor do I plan on selling it in the future. I am very carfull of who I "give" my teaching to, for a couple reasons, the first being that I have spent over 20 years of blood, sweat, and tears learning this craft and art. Therefore my knowlede has a value to it, I don't want to sell that knowledge but I am damn carefull to whom I give it to. I have had guys come into my shop and only have a visit, then sometime down the road I hear about them telling thier customers that they have had instruction from me, that's the last they will see of my shop. I have also had some people coming into my shop because they say they want to learn, then they spend all day telling me how to build a saddle, again no need for them to come back either. So I need to be very carfull when I choose someone to teach, because the info has value and my time has value, after all I am not a hobby maker this is how I make my living. I do not worry about them being competion as I like competion, it makes me a better saddle maker buecause I have to be to stay in business.

So, I have to read the "want to be" student before I start giving away info and spending my time with them istead of working on my orders. this can be difficult to do in a short period of time, I think the best route a new maker can do is first cultivate a friendship with a maker and then try start the learning process, instead of showing up thinking you have the right to be taught.

I think this may be why some makers arn't very willing to teach new students as it can be a waste of their time and knowlege when they should be working to pay their mortage. It is their knowlege that has value to it so they need to be carefull of whom they give it to. Just my two cents worth on the topic.

Steve

ps; I think in this day and age it is as easy as it has ever been to learn the craft and art of saddle making, this forum and others are great to learn from, there are some great dvd's out there, and there are so many websites from great saddle makers, you can look at these sites and learn so much from that alone. And there is so many hobby maker and profesional one man shops out there that you can befiend and learn from, no big closed doot shops like in the past. Unfortunatly there just are not any shops big enough now days to aprentice under like there was in years gone by, so an appenticeship may be pretty hard to find now.

Edited December 1, 2010 by steve mason

[D.A. Kabatoff]

good points Steve. I wonder if real apprenticeships were available today, how many would-be saddlemakers would have the patience and perseverance to cut straps and rub edges for a year, for next to nothing in pay, before they even got to watch how a groundseat went in. From some of the oldtimers I've talked to, apprenticeships often amounted to nothing more than slave labour!

Darcy

[compound]

I see these you have same problems like we

I agree with all posts on this topic.

I think- "saddlemaking and leatherworking sense" , love and enhusiasm for this handcraft - this is a way .

Will be allways a many others persons wanting to learn "leather job" , and they known that they must get own experience which will be better and helpfull to him than old mentor advices. Unfortunately lot of time and years is needs for it from them

I have over 20 years long way in leatherwork behind me too

Cca 70 years ago in my country was interesting and good assortment system for it. Master craftsman recieved a few young boys like apprentices. Apprenticeship was 10 years long. During this timeline young follower step by step teached handcraft, too business strategy and he worked for master craftsman in his shop and participate on his profits . Not all of apprentices pass out, but those that finished ,recieved vocational certificate from master craftsman. Afterward he can go off and with master certificate started his personal firm

..........i think , finished only the best and enhusiast handsrafters..good handcrafters... like our ancestors

Is good have a mentor.......but is VERY important..... REMAIN

i hope do you understand me? English isn´t my native language

[LBsaddles]

This is a great topic

Being a very young saddle maker, I'm 25 and I've only been building an my own for a year now, any time I had the chance to learn I took full advantage of it. Also the people that gave me these oppourtunities could see that I thoroughly enjoy all aspects of the craft. I think there is a problem with my generation. Everything is so easily achieved, they have had everything given to them and can't put out an honest effort. They don't have a passion for work, they just want the money and as much as they can get , even if they have no experience. When I was "apprenticing" I work for room and board and was alowed to build some gear for myself, I loved every second of it. I spent the first month building stirrup leathers for bronc saddles, bronc halters and lacing stirrups. Most people my age would have become frustated that they were not learning anything, but I learned everyday and every spare second I had I would watch them build saddles. I worked there when they needed help on and off for 2 years and never built a saddle but I had been allowed to sew certain parts and stamp and carve parts of them. A few months later I was breaking colts with another man that built a few saddles a year ( He broke between 70 and 100 colts a year). He had a tree that had been started then torn back apart because a customer changed his mind. As a trade for work I took that tree and some leather and started building a saddle. When I completed it I took it back to the first man I had worked for and he critqued it but said that he wished that he would have been able to build his first one that nice. I told him "Well I learned everything from you." He said " well you must pay attention well because you never made one here."

I guess what I'm saying is that ability does not out weigh desire. I was blessed to have decent ability that could be improved and a huge amount of desire, but thats what is lacking in the world today. If I could only disassociate myself from "my generation".

YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO WORK FOR WHAT YOU WANT!

[HanginH]

Hey Guys,

I think this is a great topic and one that I find really interesting because it does apply to me being someone trying to become a better saddlemaker and just starting out. Having read the previous posts by Darc, Bruce, Steve etc it has been enlighting to see how the other side of the coin thinks and feels about providing help and information to young guys starting out in the business. In the past I have found it hard to ask for help not because I feel that I build good saddles and don't need the help but rather that it is intimdating sometimes to ask established saddlemakes questions because i feel that it is a stupid question that I should know the answer to or they are just to busy and I don't want to be wasting their time. Case in point I was lucky enough to have a vist with Chuck Stormes and I think the second question out of my mouth was "Where do you get your trees?" I have read through Chucks website probably a dozen times prior to meeting him and I know exactly where he gets his trees from. He builds them! Felt like a real Donkey after that but he was really helpfule, gave me lots of good information on my saddle that I had built and told me how to make it better and for that I am very grateful because he didn't need to help me but did because I had asked him for some help.

The point that I am trying to make is that if you are just starting out some of the best help you can get can sometimes be in asking the question and trying to open up the lines of communication with someone that is more experienced than you. I am still not as good as I should be about calling or seeking help from others but it has been one of the better tools that I have found to try and improve my saddlemaking abilities.

Also I am planning on taking your advive Darc and am planning on trying to build a Wade to enter in the Kamloops festival next year to try and get a critique on my saddle and spend a weekend trying to gather up as much information from the other guys as I can.

Thanks

Justin Hozack

[steve mason]

Justin;

I see that you are local, if you like some time give me a phone call for a visit, sometime when I am not to busy (don't know when that is LOL) you can come down for a visit if you like and talk a little saddles. But fair warning, I just had a look at your website and saw your base price, I will be giving you hell for pricing that low. Looks like your using a Nikkel tree, I know what they are worth and what the other costs of a saddle are before you even put any time into it. With that base price you are not getting paid anything for your time after materials and overhead etc. Oh, looks like a gave you hell here . anyways give me a call sometime if you like, my number is on my website

stevemasonsaddles.com

Steve

[HanginH]

Hey Steve,

Have been a long admire of your work since I saw a art square of some floral caving that you had done in at Caledon here in town.

Will definitely take you up on the offer and would love to meet and talk saddles and maybe even a bit of fly fishing!

Thanks again,

Justin Hozack