Juki 1541 vs 1508NH for my needs? I’m overwhelmed!

[OliviaNewbie]

Hi fellow leatherworkers!

I’m a trained saddler that’s also been in the automotive/aerospace industry doing upholstery. The places I’ve worked are big businesses (Rolls Royce) so naturally I’ve been very spoilt with machines! 
 

After a long break I’m now looking to set up a very small 1-man band business just to get my craft fix. 
 

I’ll be using mainly webbing (max 4 layers) for the business but my I’ll also want to do some leatherwork (I make bits and bobs for my dog, friends etc which I currently hand stitch) I imagine max 2 layers of 3.5mm bridle butt, any more layers would be split. Possibly some foam backings. 
 

So I’m looking for a unicorn!
 

I’ve found an ex-display JUKI 1541 as well as a used but still very good condition 1508NH for the same price (£1400). 
 

Do you think the 1508NH will be okay with just webbing or will it be hate it?
The 1541 seems better suited to the webbing but it’ll be annoyinf if I have a machine and STILL have to hand stitch everything in thicker leather.
 

I’ve spent weeks researching and honestly my brain is now overwhelmed. Your wisdom is much appreciated!

[kgg]

5 hours ago, OliviaNewbie said:

I’ll be using mainly webbing (max 4 layers) for the business but my I’ll also want to do some leatherwork (I make bits and bobs for my dog, friends etc which I currently hand stitch) I imagine max 2 layers of 3.5mm bridle butt, any more layers would be split. Possibly some foam backings. 

Whats your minimum and maximum thickness going to be for the webbing and the leather going to be, including any seams and the thread size you want to use. My experience with the Juki 1541, great machine, is it hates thin items particularly fabric so I can imagine the 1508 would act in a similar manner. I added a Juki 1181n to take care of the smaller stuff so I wouldn't have to make time consuming adjustments when going back and forth from thin to thick.

kgg

[OliviaNewbie]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

Whats your minimum and maximum thickness going to be for the webbing and the leather going to be, including any seams and the thread size you want to use. My experience with the Juki 1541, great machine, is it hates thin items particularly fabric so I can imagine the 1508 would act in a similar manner. I added a Juki 1181n to take care of the smaller stuff so I wouldn't have to make time consuming adjustments when going back and forth from thin to thick.

kgg

Thanks for the input. 
Webbing: 2-4 layers (I’m guessing at 3-8mm or so)

Leather: 3-7mm vegtan. Possibly thicker but that would be 1 layer of leather and 1 foam

Thread: TKT 40, possibly 20 for topstitch. I think that’s 69 and 138

[kgg]

2 hours ago, OliviaNewbie said:

Webbing: 2-4 layers (I’m guessing at 3-8mm or so)

Leather: 3-7mm vegtan. Possibly thicker but that would be 1 layer of leather and 1 foam

Both the 1541 and 1508 should handle the thickest you want to sew in webbing. It's the leather where you say "Possibly thicker". If I'm not mistaken both machines have rated sewing thickness of 3/8" (9.5mm). Since you do want the "unicorn" I am going to suggest you consider a cylinder bed machine with a table top attachment. You will then get the advantage of a cylinder bed with the capabilities of a flatbed something like a Juki LS-1341 or clone.

2 hours ago, OliviaNewbie said:

Thread: TKT 40, possibly 20 for topstitch. I think that’s 69 and 138

Why are you planning on using a top thread different then the bobbin thread? The strength of the stitch will be that of the smallest thread and probably harder to adjust top thread and bobbin tensions.

Thread info:

i) Tkt 40 is equal to V69 with a typical breaking strength of ~5 kg (11 lbs)

ii) Tkt 20 is equal to V138 with a typical breaking strength of ~10 kg (22 lbs)

A good cross reference chart for the thread and needle size can be found at https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

kgg

Edited February 3 by kgg

[OliviaNewbie]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

Both the 1541 and 1508 should handle the thickest you want to sew in webbing. It's the leather where you say "Possibly thicker". If I'm not mistaken both machines have rated sewing thickness of 3/8" (9.5mm). Since you do want the "unicorn" I am going to suggest you consider a cylinder bed machine with a table top attachment. You will then get the advantage of a cylinder bed with the capabilities of a flatbed something like a Juki LS-1341 or clone.

Why are you planning on using a top thread different then the bobbin thread? The strength of the stitch will be that of the smallest thread and probably harder to adjust top thread and bobbin tensions.

Thread info:

i) Tkt 40 is equal to V69 with a typical breaking strength of ~5 kg (11 lbs)

ii) Tkt 20 is equal to V138 with a typical breaking strength of ~10 kg (22 lbs)

A good cross reference chart for the thread and needle size can be found at https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

kgg

I had wondered about a cylinder arm with flatbed attachment option. We used to have cylinder arms in college for my saddlery. 
 

Also by topstitch, I was meaning a decorative stitch, should have explained that! Think that’s a UK/US lingo difference! 
I’ve always used 40 for construction and 20 as a decorative or twin needle stitch. 
 

Back to the drawing board with a cylinder arm I think!

[Quade]

One thing I prefer in the 1541 versus the 1508 is the way the bobbins work.  The 1541 has a removable bobbin housing so you can have multiple housings setup for different threads thickness.   It's both easier to get the thread through the thread clamp and easier to adjust the bobbin tension.   I have nearly the same bobbin setup on my 211 as the 1508 and never liked how the bobbin thread was feed.   The 1541 works like a home machine.  

That said, it's harder to stick a bobbin into the 1541 than the 1508 so I guess it's a trade-off. 

 

[OliviaNewbie]

20 hours ago, Quade said:

One thing I prefer in the 1541 versus the 1508 is the way the bobbins work.  The 1541 has a removable bobbin housing so you can have multiple housings setup for different threads thickness.   It's both easier to get the thread through the thread clamp and easier to adjust the bobbin tension.   I have nearly the same bobbin setup on my 211 as the 1508 and never liked how the bobbin thread was feed.   The 1541 works like a home machine.  

That said, it's harder to stick a bobbin into the 1541 than the 1508 so I guess it's a trade-off. 

 

Yes someone else suggested that as an advantage of the 1541. 
 

I’ll be honest, the 1508 bobbin system is the same as what I’m used to at work so it seems far friendlier in my head! It’s just what you’re used to at the end of the day. I’m sure I would get used to scrabbling around under the table pretty quickly. 

[kgg]

1 hour ago, OliviaNewbie said:

I’ll be honest, the 1508 bobbin system is the same as what I’m used to at work so it seems far friendlier in my head!

The Juki LS-1341 and clone cylinder arm machines have the same top load bobbin system as the 1508.

Where are you located?? Maybe there is member close to you who could suggest a dealer in your general area.

kgg

[dfrensdorff]

I have the 1508 NH. I sew primary leather, but occasionally I’ll sew some waxed canvas. Getting the tension correct is a bit of a challenge on thinner material, but not insurmountable. If you get the 1508, you’ll never need another heavy duty industrial flatbed. 

[OliviaNewbie]

An update on this for anyone that finds it in years to come. 
 

I ended up picking up the 1508NH after I found a little Brother DB2-755-3 virtually free down the road so that will be employed for the lightweight work. 
 

A first very quick play with the Juki and I LOVE it. Went through 2 layers of 3.5mm veg tan like butter without any sort of adjustments/playing around after it come off the van. 

[dfrensdorff]

Good choice … you will never regret it!  You have one of the best flatbed industrial machines made.