Cowboy CB4500 vs Adler 205

[Rob2613]

My search for an affordable heavy duty cylinder arm machine takes a new turn. I went to check on a Adler 205-374 yesterday. Turned out the machine was in terrible shape. The cover on the left side of the machine and other parts were missing, and the machine sounded like it had not been oiled recently. So I ended up not buying this machine, and posting a search on local FB-groups. A few hours later I received a PM from a local saddlemaker offering a used Cowboy CB4500 for as little as €750 (about $800). According to the seller the machine has some wear on the paint, but is in good condition. What are your thoughts on this machine, compared to a Adler 205, and the price? Thank you again for your help!

 

[Uwe]

There are lots of topics around the Cowboy 4500 here on LW. It’s a very capable machine and very popular here in the US. It’s a copy of the Juki TSC-441, which is still in production. Essentially the same specs as the Adler 205. The Adler has some technically superior details (like cam-driven foot lift motion), but you may not notice the difference in your work. At $800, it too would be bargain-  if it’s in good shape. They sell for around $3,000 new here in the US.

[Rob2613]

@UweThanks again for your fast reply! I will go and check the machine tomorrowmorning. It even has a table attachment included, so could be a great deal!

 

 

[Wizcrafts]

@Rob2613

I used to have an Adler 204-374, which is the flatbed version of the 205. I used it for about a year until I got a Union Lockstitch machine. The Adler was very smooth and solid. It sewed 3/4 inch (20mm) of veg-tan leather with #346 thread. The bobbins were huge cylinders, like the big Cowboy 441 clones use. My only reason for letting it go was that a person with a Union Lockstitch offered to trade it, even Steven, and I'm a ULS fanboy. The ULS are super finicky, but I Grok them. Two years later I learned about the Cowboy machines and proceeded to sell the Union Lockstitch. I've had a Cowboy cb4500 since 2012. It is solid and fully capable of sewing leather and webbing, or other materials, up to 23mm thickness, with bonded thread sizes up to #415. It has never let me down in the 12 years I've had it. The machine gets regular use and I oil it frequently (with light weight sewing machine oil).

One consideration to bear in mind is the cost of accessories and replacement parts. Parts for Adler machines are very costly. Cowboy parts and accessories are more affordable. Every part and accessory I've bought fits perfectly. They are very high quality machines; part of the HighTex brand.

[dikman]

Sounds like a great deal for a 4500! If he's a saddlemaker I reckon he would have looked after it so I say grab it quick.

[Rob2613]

 

Thank you all for your help! I bought this Cowboy 4500 yesterday for $800. It seems to be in good shape, besides the worn out paint on the outside of the machine. Now I will clean it up and give it some TLC, and maybe paint it with Hammerite. Too bad I could not respond to your offers for used 205’s because of the shipping costs to The Netherlands. Once I am more skilled in repairing these big machines, I will search for a Adler 205 again. The picture is of the machine I bought…

 

[Constabulary]

Picture does not tell much. Bobbin winder is missing and 2 screw of the stitch length scale. Not a too big issue I guess (w/o knowing more details).

I´d put a plate where the oem bobbin winder was and buy this table mounted one. Thats the most economic way I guess.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143422223667

[Rob2613]

@Constabulary: No worries. I have all the parts, I just took the machine apart to clean and paint the body. The bobbin winder is not working properly, so I might buy the bobbin winder you suggested. Thanks for the tip!

[Rob2613]

@Uwe I put all the exterior parts back on the machine, but I have not connected it yet to the motor. I noticed that the machine is not running as smoothly as the 4500 in your video. When turning the handwheel, there seems to be some friction and a noise on a specific part of the sewing cycle. It feels like the friction is in the end of the cylinder arm, so above the needle. Do you have any clue what could be the cause of this? I tried to upload a video, but the size is too big to insert in this post. I did not remove the internal parts of the machine by the way.

[Northmount]

13 hours ago, Rob2613 said:

I tried to upload a video, but the size is too big to insert in this post

Put it on YouTube and link to it here.

[Rob2613]

@Northmount That’s smart. I will try a few more things to see where the friction is located, if I don’t succeed I will post a video via Youtube. Thanks!

[Uwe]

Debugging friction is very hard to do sitting in front of the machine, let an alone remotely. Lift the feet up, so you’re not lifting feet against spring pressure when you’re turning the hand wheel. That spring pressure can feel like a tight spot. 

Make sure things are well oiled and clean. Old, dried oil residue can cause friction in unexpected places. In my hook timing video I show one step to align an eccentric bushing (at the 8:50 mark.) I had noticed this because it was suddenly causing a tight spot after I made an adjustment because the part was no longer properly aligned. I’m not saying your machine has this specific issue, but to show that a tiny adjustment can introduce a point of friction. When I work on a machine I’m generally very methodical, changing one thing at a time and checking if I’m introducing a tight spot.

Here’s a link to that hook timing video, for the benefit of others reading this topic:

 

[Rob2613]

@Uwe Thanks all for your help! I think I located the friction point. I have removed the inner and outer feet, and the machine runs as smoothy as can be expected of this beast of a machine. Looks like the previous owner installed some aftermarket feet that rubbed against eachother when moving the handwheel. I installed the original feet, but it looks like the outer feet don’t come down enough (at the lowest point there’s a small gap between the underside of these feet and the needle plate. Any video’s to set the inner and outer feet at the proper height? Pictures of the “problem”-feet and the height of the original outer feet…