"Grade A" HO 8/9 from Springfield looks terrible

[palehorse]

Hi, everyone.  Up to recently, I've been buying my veg tan sides from Tandy because they are available locally; and I can pick them out by hand.  However, I wanted to give HO a try for the first time.  I decided to buy from SLC via mail-order.  At $315 for a side plus $19 shipping, it was quite a chunk of change; but I really wanted to see what all the fuss was about.  I received my shipment with great excitement yesterday; but when I opened the box, my heart dropped.  I've attached some pics, but the lighting and photos really don't do it justice... the leather is dirty, scuffed, marked, scraped, discolored, wrinkled, etc.  Heck, the condition of the flesh side looks better than the "good" side.  Obviously the belly area is a waste, which is fine, but basically I would have a hard time finding a section large enough to to cut something the size of a journal cover that didn't have at least one noticeable blem.  There aren't any holes, and the weight seems pretty even throughout; but cosmetically, this stuff isn't anywhere near as visually acceptable as even the economy stuff I could get from Tandy at a third the price.  I find it hard to believe that anyone who cares about the quality of their products enough to actually spend the premium for grade A would find this to be even remotely acceptable, and I really feel like a vendor the size of Springfield would know this.

I'm so disappointed... this is not only an expensive lesson to learn, but I was really looking forward to carving on the best of the best.  As far as I know, nothing on Springfield's website would indicate that I would not be paying the cost for shipping back returns out of my pocket.  Throwing good money after bad is hard to stomach.  As it was the weekend, I haven't called them yet; but I did send an online message.  No response yet, of course.

Like I said, I wish the photos better represented how this stuff looks; but you should be able to get the general impression... everything that looks like a blemish in the photos looks twice as bad in real life.  In your experiences, am I being unreasonable for grade A at this price?  What kind of expectations should I have if I give them a call to discuss the situation?  What outcome should I be pushing for?  Exchange, return, or just eat this leather as a ridiculously expensive supply of practice stock?  I'm not a pro, and I mostly make items for friends and family.  Quite frankly, I would be embarrassed to give them anything with such bad looking surface finish... really, unless I'm doing a piece with 100% tooling coverage or dying it dark, this stuff is definitely not going to be useable to make anything I wan't other people to see.  Any advice y'all could provide to a newbie like me would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks in advance.

Edited June 2, 2024 by palehorse

[bladegrinder]

I’ve had the same experience, I’ll explain later this evening when I’m on my laptop.

[FrankHester]

The first and only time so far in my 8-month leather career of leatherworking that I have used HO was at the Rocky Mountain Leather Show in Sheridan a couple weeks ago.

I thought it was noticeably different in a good way from the economy and standard grades I had tooled on so far and which I will still use.  I did hear some of the more experienced students say that HO was subject to batch to batch or year to year or whatever variances that were not always good. But not one person thought of not using HO.

I look forward to my first HO purchase sometime in the future but until then I will keep plugging away on what I have. 

I did hear that Tandy's upper levels were quite nice also and I look forward to using them also.  

Hope this helps a little at least,

Frank 

 

 

[palehorse]

1 hour ago, bladegrinder said:

I’ve had the same experience, I’ll explain later this evening when I’m on my laptop.

I look forward to reading it.  Much appreciated.

1 hour ago, Herbie said:

The first and only time so far in my 8-month leather career of leatherworking that I have used HO was at the Rocky Mountain Leather Show in Sheridan a couple weeks ago.

I thought it was noticeably different in a good way from the economy and standard grades I had tooled on so far and which I will still use.  I did hear some of the more experienced students say that HO was subject to batch to batch or year to year or whatever variances that were not always good. But not one person thought of not using HO.

I look forward to my first HO purchase sometime in the future but until then I will keep plugging away on what I have. 

I did hear that Tandy's upper levels were quite nice also and I look forward to using them also.  

Hope this helps a little at least,

Frank 

 

 

I live in DFW and can actually go to Tandy's flagship store in Ft Worth over a lunch break at work so it was the natural option when hunting for leather that I can pick out in person.  I don't know that I'd buy it sight unseen as there is some variety in quality levels that I've found in their stores, but I can pretty easily find some really nice looking sides and double shoulders when I shop in person.  It tools pretty well, but I've never used HO or W&C so I can't compare.  From what I've heard from others, and based on comparing things like their tools vs what I get from Barry King, I think they are probably a solid mid-tier option that is proportionate to what you pay to get it.  I don't seem to get a lot of the natural burnishing that I see when I watch videos of people carving HO online.  I chalk that up to a lower level of quality in the tanning process, but it's not anything that isn't remedied when I antique the finished piece anyway.

This experience from Springfield was so disheartening.  Like I said, I was really looking forward to finally carving on a piece of grade A HO.  When I opened the package and saw the leather, not only was it a financial hit, but it was an emotional one, too.

[FrankHester]

4 minutes ago, palehorse said:

I look forward to reading it.  Much appreciated.

I live in DFW and can actually go to Tandy's flagship store in Ft Worth over a lunch break at work so it was the natural option when hunting for leather that I can pick out in person.  I don't know that I'd buy it sight unseen as there is some variety in quality levels that I've found in their stores, but I can pretty easily find some really nice looking sides and double shoulders when I shop in person.  It tools pretty well, but I've never used HO or W&C so I can't compare.  From what I've heard from others, and based on comparing things like their tools vs what I get from Barry King, I think they are probably a solid mid-tier option that is proportionate to what you pay to get it.  I don't seem to get a lot of the natural burnishing that I see when I watch videos of people carving HO online.  I chalk that up to a lower level of quality in the tanning process, but it's not anything that isn't remedied when I antique the finished piece anyway.

This experience from Springfield was so disheartening.  Like I said, I was really looking forward to finally carving on a piece of grade A HO.  When I opened the package and saw the leather, not only was it a financial hit, but it was an emotional one, too.

I feel for you, that is a tough hit for sure. I would see what kind of return deal you can get with SLC.

I will say using BK tools on the HO leather made me appreciate both.  

[bladegrinder]

Call Springfield leather Monday, they will email you a prepaid return label to stick on the box and send it back. you can get your money back or they'll send you another piece.

Personally I'm finished buying leather from them. years ago I ordered 10-12 sq. ft of B grade. I was doing a knife show in about a month and had to make some sheaths, while the hair side was OK most of the flesh side was black. it looked like it got caught in the skiver machine or something but it was totally unacceptable. I called and asked how did this even make it out their door? crickets....sorry sir we can give you your money back or send a new piece. they sent a new piece that was OK but the turn around time made things a hassle for me.

Forward about 3 months ago I ordered 12 sq. ft. of B grade 8-9 oz. I picked up 3 orders for holsters, previously I had been using 6-7 0z and wanted to use thicker leather moving forward.

the piece I received looked like yours but had a gaping hole in it and truthfully looked like this cow had been hit in one area with birdshot from a shotgun. I called and again asked how did this make it out your doors? got a nice young lady explain how leather can have defects..yada, yada.....do I want a refund or a replacement, I'd like a replacement if it won't look like this, so the replacement come and while it was acceptable in my opinion it was below 'craftsman' grade and again set my timeline back on getting the holsters done.

My way of thinking is these pieces are getting passed over by people going into their store to buy leather, so, what to do with it?......mail orders. hoping some people will just bite the bullet and accept it.

I'm not slamming Springfield leather just telling my experience with buying leather from them, which I won't do anymore.

I think my next order of leather will come directly from Wicket and Craig, over the phone and explaining what I want and that I'm willing to pay for good leather.

 

[palehorse]

If I can get them to pay the freight for return shipping, I'll be less salty about it... I guess we'll see what they say.  Unfortunately, I have already disposed of the box.  (Although if all I have to pay for is a new box, that's a small sacrifice to get this rectified.)  You might be right about what is happening with these subpar sides going out the door.  I don't have the energy to go full Karen on anyone over the phone, but I can't see how I'll be okay with ordering leather sight unseen any more unless I hear a ton of positive reviews from people that I trust know the difference.  I work in supply chain / procurement, so the last thing I feel like doing is dealing with this type of thing in my personal life when I spend a lot of my day doing it at work.  

AFAIK, HO has a significant minimum order quantity so that won't work for me.  I don't know if Weaver is any better.  They sell HO but don't list the grade.  It's only specified as "tannery run", which seems like a great way for a vendor to say they just sent you the best of what they have in stock, even if it's not good.  If W&C (or anyone) will sell one or two sides at a time, I'm game.  However, I can't justify more than that since I'm not in business; and anything I sell is from someone saying "hey, that's cool... where did you get that?"  That's also why blowing almost $350 on an ugly side that I had such high expectations for hurts.  If I was in person and it was sitting on a table with a sign that said "Economy / Craftsman Grade -- $150", I probably still would have passed because I just can't use it for anything I make and have reasonable hope of churning out a quality item.  Maybe if I was making keychains and willing to have a lot of waste.

Thanks, guys, for letting me bounce my thoughts off you.  The only leather I've ever bought online before has been exotics that I can't find locally at Tandy, and even those have been a little disappointing from time to time.  I personally try to live by the idea of under-promise & over-deliver.  Seems like m

[WendlingKnives]

Hello from the other side of DFW (between McKinney and Greenville). w&c will sell sides one at a time. And I think im only paying about 250/side from wc for drum dyed 8 and 10 oz sides. Give them a call when you get your money back from SLC

Edited June 3, 2024 by WendlingKnives

[jrdunn]

@palehorse & @WendlingKnives,  For you and other DFW guys, you might look into Makers Leather Supply.  They are north of Waco.  I haven't visited their store but have ordered from them.  They have treated me right.  It seems to me like overall leather prices have went up and quality has went down in the last few years.  If I were closer, I would definitely visit their store.  JM2C,  Jim

https://makersleathersupply.com/

Edited June 3, 2024 by jrdunn
To include link

[palehorse]

10 hours ago, WendlingKnives said:

Hello from the other side of DFW (between McKinney and Greenville). w&c will sell sides one at a time. And I think im only paying about 250/side from wc for drum dyed 8 and 10 oz sides. Give them a call when you get your money back from SLC

I'm actually in Frisco / Plano, so not too far from you.  I ride my motorcycle out your way all the time.  I'll check out what W&C say.

2 hours ago, jrdunn said:

@palehorse & @WendlingKnives,  For you and other DFW guys, you might look into Makers Leather Supply.  They are north of Waco.  I haven't visited their store but have ordered from them.  They have treated me right.  It seems to me like overall leather prices have went up and quality has went down in the last few years.  If I were closer, I would definitely visit their store.  JM2C,  Jim

https://makersleathersupply.com/

I've seen some of their videos on YT.  I didn't know they were local... good to know and definitely will look into them.  Thanks.