Vintage cobbler and shoe making tools

[Tastech]

This is new thread dedicated to tools of the trade related to shoe making and cobblers . It appears that we get a bit side tracked on some threads and the shoe making enthusiasts and myself "hijack" some threads and start talking about shoes, so this thread is dedicated to the subject.

I am a shoemaker and cobbler and have a passion for vintage tools and how they were used . I am also a collector of these tools and try incorporate them in my work . I am also a former metal fabrication and industrial engineer so i have the skill and means to restore them to their former glory . 

 In another thread about cowboy boots i offered to explain shoe makers lasting pliers , the types and their uses so here goes .

Lasting pliers are a tool specifically used by shoe makers for fitting the leather upper to a shoe last . There are various shapes and sizes including regional variations , shoe variations  and  for specific procedures . They all do pretty much the same thing but differently . Its not a tool that has multi function uses  but you could extract nose hairs if you really wanted to . They are like pliers but most have a curved beak with a solid protrusion on the bottom side . They are used for pulling the shoe leather over the last and putting nails in place to hold it in shape while the welt is sewn into place They are also used for glue down construction . As i have mentioned at other times it is a process . the shoe upper ( the sewn leather bit) is put over a last of the correct size , lined up back and front and a nail is place through the upper heel part to find center . The toe area is then pulled over using the pliers  and a nail place there. then back to the bottom of the heel and a nail placed there . The shoe is then eyed for symmetry and then the fun begins . Depending on what type of shoe will determine the ideal pliers. The pliers vary in curvature of the beak , the curvature of the handle  and the width of the beak . For the toe and heel of the shoe a narrow width pliers is ideal  because you make little folds to get around the curve of toe and heel . For the sides a lager plier can be used . The leather is pulled tight over the last using the pliers held in place with the spare thumb a nail is put next to the thumb and knocked in with the metal protrusion on the bottom of the pliers . So the lasting pliers are 2 tools in 1 . For pulling but also a hammer . The nails are not knocked in all the way because they are temporary .  most shoe maker i know have 2 pliers , wide mouth and narrow . Most shoe makers specialize with a certain type of shoe or a similar style so their tools will be tailored to their specialty. A mens lace up shoe maker has different lasts to a stiletto maker and a boot maker has his own preference as well . But we are talking preference here . Once you get used to your tool you tend to use that  and make use of what you got simply because you have a muscle memory .   

 Posted below are a couple of photos showing some different types and different styles . Top from left to right 

German  style marked 1 B  narrow mouth 

Chinese made new . ( cheap and has a surprisingly good feel to it ) I highly rate it 

unknown English wide mouth 

English Timmins  wide mouth , curved beak 

 English George Barnsley   medium /narrow mouth , moderate curved beak ( my favorite )

 English George  Barnsley wide mouth , Curved beak . (My second favorite)

 Bottom -Left to right .

English George Barnsley Bulldog pliers . Very rare and unusual . Sought after and expensive  . It is used to pull in the waist (shank ) area of heavy boots . The bottom handle straddles the last while you push down on the handle . 

Nordic / German pliers - wide mouth . They also come in various widths  and slight variations 

 Saddle makers pliers . Not exactly sure what they are specifically used for , but i think these too are referred to as bull dogs .

 My nieces lasting pliers - Narrow mouth -cut down . She can put a pro to shame .

English Timmins . Wide mouth  curved beak . Note the the hammer bit or anvil on the bottom . It screw out and can be tuned up or down to suit the weight you require . More of a boot makers plier but would use a narrow mouth smaller version if i find one . 

 The second photo shows the various widths and beak tapers .

 Most of these were rusted heaps of crap when i got them and gave them new life . some would have spent a whole working career with the one person and even handed down  to an apprentice . I really wish i knew the specific history of them all . The 2 barnsleys i use were handed down to me by Francesco Berlutti the master boot maker who taught me the finer details of boot making . he was the boot maker of none other than Benito Mussolini . Those pliers made boots for El Duce himself and i still use them to make my own . I feel like i channel old"Cranky Franky" when i use them .

 Any questions please ask . I got nothing better to do with my nights .lol

 

[chuck123wapati]

we need to copy and paste the rest of your previous discussion on this thread!! get it all together in one place. 

[Tastech]

@chuck123wapati Are you volunteering ?  Feel free . lol

I am not one to move the furniture around . If need be i can just do updates as they are required . I am sort of hoping there are a few more shoe makers on this site or come in from elsewhere and we can all really get into it and chew the fat .  I am on another forum , a shoe repair forum .which i wont name but they are a miserable bunch of geezers and all they want to talk about is keys .  I mentioned some where on here that those kiosk cobblers are like fast food workers .  Hardly masters of their trade . This is the place to be and   i love the collective knowledge that gets shared around  from professionals to beginners  in all aspects of the craft . Its funny how i will do a google search about some obscure  tools or machine and this site always seems to have a mention of it .

[chuck123wapati]

Just now, Tastech said:

@chuck123wapati Are you volunteering ?  Feel free . lol

I am not one to move the furniture around . If need be i can just do updates as they are required . I am sort of hoping there are a few more shoe makers on this site or come in from elsewhere and we can all really get into it and chew the fat .  I am on another forum , a shoe repair forum .which i wont name but they are a miserable bunch of geezers and all they want to talk about is keys .  I mentioned some where on here that those kiosk cobblers are like fast food workers .  Hardly masters of their trade . This is the place to be and   i love the collective knowledge that gets shared around  from professionals to beginners  in all aspects of the craft . Its funny how i will do a google search about some obscure  tools or machine and this site always seems to have a mention of it .

i'll do it for you no prob. no need to re write a ton of good info. 

[chuck123wapati]

2 minutes ago, Tastech said:

@chuck123wapati Are you volunteering ?  Feel free . lol

I am not one to move the furniture around . If need be i can just do updates as they are required . I am sort of hoping there are a few more shoe makers on this site or come in from elsewhere and we can all really get into it and chew the fat .  I am on another forum , a shoe repair forum .which i wont name but they are a miserable bunch of geezers and all they want to talk about is keys .  I mentioned some where on here that those kiosk cobblers are like fast food workers .  Hardly masters of their trade . This is the place to be and   i love the collective knowledge that gets shared around  from professionals to beginners  in all aspects of the craft . Its funny how i will do a google search about some obscure  tools or machine and this site always seems to have a mention of it .

here is a link to the rest of the info you have provided us previously. thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge.

[Mablung]

Neato! How do you figure out where to place the nails holding the upper in place? I’ve watched plenty of videos of shoe and boot making and am always just certain that the nail holes will be visible after completion. They never are, but why is about as clear to me as black magic. Are they simply hidden under the welt? The videos I have seen don’t show the holes being trimmed off as the upper is trimmed after lasting, so my only guess is that they are hidden. 

[Mulesaw]

Darn those look nice. 

Tools that have been passed down from master to apprentice is just so impressive compared to the general tendency of today with things being thrown away so quickly.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, that is further proof of just how great a forum this is.

Brgds Jonas

 

[Tastech]

@Mablung. The nails are temporary and get pulled out as the welt is sewn on .  They are then hidden under the welt . I do a carved leather sole  and try to get my nails onto the raised bit where i punch the awl through for the welt holes or right on the edge between the 2 edges . I don't know if you know what gemming is . ( not a word you hear spoken outside of a cobbler shop or shoe factory ) Its the factory way of attaching the welt to the inner sole . Rather than use a thick piece of leather and carve out what you don't need leaving a raised edge around the perimeter 6mm off the edge . Factories use gemming . Its a canvas strip folded and only glued to the innersole . The welt stitches go through the gemming picking up the upper and the welt . Any cobbler will tell you that when you resole a shoe the gemming will always need some gluing back specially the sides . I don't know why they just don't pass a stitch around it to hold it on . it would take about 30-45 seconds per shoe to do so .  A welt does not necessarily go around the full outside edge of the Sole . 80% of the time it starts and stops about 10 mm under where the heel is I posted a couple of videos on the cowboy boot thread showing a shoe making process . There you can see the carved sole . The youtube channel is called Terry KIM  there you will see the carved inner sole and how he attaches the welt .There are some aspects of the complete process missing because the editor either  thinks it is boring or he has a trade secret he doesn't want to share.  Shoe makers were and probably still are a secretive bunch . Some work side by side separated by a curtain ( like in a doctors surgery ) They have a little method or quirk they do't want others to see . But then again they are probably just wanking . lol

Nails for lasting pre welt are 30mm long and 1.2 thick ( you dont belt your fingers with that length ). I use copper coated nails because the don't stain the damp leather  . plain steel leave a black spot .

Fun fact . You used to buy nails in a box by the weight not quantity . Certain nails were labeled "sterilized " This is because you would put a few in you mouth to have them handy .  Either way you could still taste the steel . Some tacks came as sterilized as well because reaching into the the nail bowl you would prick you finger tips and they would become infected .  Nails and tacks are 2 different things used for different purposes .

[Tastech]

On the subject of nails and in particular heel nails . Have you ever wondered how heels are nailed on from the inside of the shoe  ? Or especially how boot heels are nailed on when you can hold the nail to start or get into the boot with a hammer ? We use a slide hammer . Every proper cobbler needs a slide hammer . They are specialized tool that not many people have seen or even if they have would have no idea what it is . I have never seen one for sale on Ebay or other sites . The only maker i know of is George Barnsley . They were out of production for over 50 years but they recently revived the old tool and did a production run . My old one had just about had it so i bought a new one . Not cheap but worth it . The tool is used on the inside the shoe to nail the heel block on .

Photo #1 the tool . You lift the ball slide and drop a nail in the side hole . with one knock the nail gets set

Photo #2 The nails . The nails are relatively thick with a spiral shaft for holding down and not becoming loose and even more important not squeaking 

Photo #3  You can see the slide mechanism. The business end has a tool  steel replaceable tip for contact with the nail.

 I use this tool mainly as a Repair tool for shoe making i use a heel press which is a small machine in itself .

The slide hammer is one of my favorite tools .

Actually now that i think of it there is a cheaper generic one on the market that you have to pull the slide right out to drop a nail in but it just doesn't have the sexiness of the George Barnsley  and unbefitting  of a gentleman . LOL

[Mulesaw]

@Tastech That slide hammer looks fantastic!
A couple of days ago I watched an English cobbler on Youtube who used one, though his was not nearly as good looking. I thought that I could try to make one myself some day.
Do you think that any regular cobbler/shoemakers supplier have got those special nails? 

Brgds Jonas

[fredk]

I've never seen a slide-hammer that small. I've use very large ones, 1lb and 5 lb, on my cars

When tacking heels on medieval style shoes I used a length of steel bar to reach in

[Tastech]

@Mulesaw @fredk. Its not hard to make a heel nailer  . but the juice is probably not worth the squeeze. my tool is 400 mm long , the hammer shaft is 7.86 mm the outer tube is 12.7 however the tip of the hammer tapers down to 3.6 mm. the external shaft is 2 parts . the top part is to accommodate the 7.86 mm main hammer shaft .the bottom part has a taper and by looking at it is 7.86 at the top half and 3.6 at the bottom 1/3rd. It is important that the nail head has a reasonably tight fit . If it is loose it will knock the nail sideways . Have a closer look at the previous photos and you can see the tip is narrower than the shaft , this corresponds to what is happening on the inside of the tube as well . You can use any length of bar to send the nail home but you need to get the tip in first . I have previously used an awl it punch a starter hole , pushed the tip of the nail in by hand and used a round bar to knock it it but it is tedious work 

 There is nothing wrong with using a screw to attach the heel block but a few things need to be considered  screw length , coarseness of thread .  type of head . what we call a particle board screw in Australia works just fine  It has a course thread , it has a self countersinking head and cones in sizes from 20 mm to 100 mm and is available at hardware stores . It is always best to pre drill  with a 2.8 - 3 mm bit . When screwing down i use an impact screw gun ( sometimes with an extension) because i can control the depth easier and the screw doesn't jump in the bit as it does when doing it with a drill . the screws are covered with a soft pad and an innersole so you don't feel it but it is important that it sits flush . The ideal heel screw would be a course thread pan head with a counter sunk head about 2/3rds the diameter of the head .

 If you want to use a heel nailer ,the nails are available from a shoe supply wholesaler .  My last order was years ago and i got 5kgs ii still have a life time supply left . They come in various lengths as well .

Below are links to the George Barnsley nailer that i have 

 https://www.georgebarnsleyandsons.co.uk/product-page/tubularnailer

 the one below is the modern generic type 

https://shucare.com.au/product/heel-nailer-tubular-20/

 I use 7 nails per heel in a horse shoe pattern  from the inside and into a stacked leather heel .

I just finished a full rebuild on a  pair ladies boots . I had to replace a  broken stilleto type heel . I had to do the pair because i did not have an exact match . Nails would not do the job because i had to come in on an angle because the heel tapered  and i couldn't hold the shoe down .  so I used screws  .  Pretty straight forward but because the boot was just below the knee and no zipper it was a pain to get access  I used a 500mm extension on the screw gun and prayed i was where i wanted to be because i could  not see inside the boot . i knew no one else could do it and they were good boots  and it helped that the client was not ugly  . LOL  

Edited July 7 by Tastech
grammer and spelling mistake

[TomE]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.  Great information and fun stories! I look forward to learning more.  Your description of nails reminds me of horse shoe nails.  There is a (dying?) fad of coating nails with copper that supposedly inhibits growth of bacteria in the nail hole.  Maybe they also keep the farrier's breath fresh? 

[Tastech]

@TomEI just did a google search and asked the question "is copper anti microbial ? " the answer is below  . Very interesting . I don't know much about horses ,but i have seen some you tube videos of some very nasty infected hooves . If anyone ever asks my advice is will recommend copper nails . A rusty nail can give you tetanus and septicemia and blood poisoning at the very least .

 I was talking to a customer just last week and she told me her father was a cobbler and died of mouth cancer about 30 years ago . she told me that he thought he got mouth cancer by putting nails in his mouth. At the time i didn't think to ask how he came to that conclusion . Did the doctor tell him that ? was it his own conclusion ? Any way i have never gotten into the habit of putting nails in my mouth sterile or not . 

Copper and its alloys (brasses, bronzes, cupronickel, copper-nickel-zinc, and others) are natural antimicrobial materials. Ancient civilizations exploited the antimicrobial properties of copper long before the concept of microbes became understood in the nineteenth century.

 

[Northmount]

6 hours ago, Tastech said:

Fun fact . You used to buy nails in a box by the weight not quantity . Certain nails were labeled "sterilized " This is because you would put a few in you mouth to have them handy .  Either way you could still taste the steel . Some tacks came as sterilized as well because reaching into the the nail bowl you would prick you finger tips and they would become infected .  Nails and tacks are 2 different things used for different purposes .

My wife's grandfather was a cobbler in Adelaide.  He held nails in his mouth while working.  He died of bacterial meningitis in 1947 that was supposedly transferred from rats to the nails.  There were many rats and they had the run of the shop like many old buildings.

I also know a man that was re-shingling a chicken coop (wood shingles late 1950s) and holding the shingle nails in his mouth.  He coughed or sneezed and swallowed at least 1 nail.  He didn't go see a doctor to check or do anything about it.  It tore his gut up, just about died.  Had a colostomy for months while his gut healed.

Let's be safe, keep stuff out of your mouth that doesn't belong there.

[TomE]

4 hours ago, Tastech said:

@TomEI just did a google search and asked the question "is copper anti microbial ? " the answer is below  . Very interesting . I don't know much about horses ,but i have seen some you tube videos of some very nasty infected hooves . If anyone ever asks my advice is will recommend copper nails . A rusty nail can give you tetanus and septicemia and blood poisoning at the very least .

 I was talking to a customer just last week and she told me her father was a cobbler and died of mouth cancer about 30 years ago . she told me that he thought he got mouth cancer by putting nails in his mouth. At the time i didn't think to ask how he came to that conclusion . Did the doctor tell him that ? was it his own conclusion ? Any way i have never gotten into the habit of putting nails in my mouth sterile or not . 

 

Silver also has antimicrobial activity.  Silver sulfadiazine is a wound treatment.  Perhaps the Lone Ranger chewed on his silver bullets.  The farriers I have asked about copper coated nails said they don't know if they work, but they look cool and they can charge more.  

[Tastech]

While on the subject of nails and heel nailers i will show some photos of my heel press .

Photo #1 is the machine . Nails are placed into the anvil. The shoe gets placed into the metal anvil heel facing up and lined up , the wheel at the top is wound down to hold the shoe in position and then the lever on the right is pulled forward which pushes the nails up through the inside of the shoe via a cam mechanism . 

Photo#2 shows the anvil with the 5 holes where the nails are placed.

Photo #3 shows the position of the shoe while the procedure is done .

The machine shown is for men's shoes . There is also another jig that i made and shaped that will secure a ladies sitlleto heel  it fits into the top part . There is another variation that has a long post on the bottom made for getting into cowboy boots but works on the exact same principle . Occasionally the pins that drive the nails gets bent or broken . I replace them with cut off 4.5 mm drill bits cut down to size because they have the hardness to cope with the nails and i can get them in the right diameter 

 There is another machine in existence that i have never seen in action and it nails the heel rubber from from the outside . Its what we do by hammer and nail today . The machine does not use nails as such but has a wire coil that punches into the heel and cuts the nail off when the procedure is done . If i ever find a vintage one going for cheap i will buy it and restore it but will probably never use it .Its a stand up machine which is fairly large . I don't think even those who have one actually use it . And i don't know if the wire coil it uses is still in production . Its not what you would call a cool looking machine either. Unlike my heel press which has some nice curves and is a bit of a looker even if it doesn't get used much .

I think that's about it for heel nailers ,presses and nails  and i will move on . Any question will be answered 

 Actually one more point about nails . The difference between nails and tacks are nails go into what you are trying to attach stopping short . They have a 4 sided pyramid point like a regular nail . A tack has a larger head and a shaft that tapers to a very fine point , they are very sharp and prick the fingers when reaching for one . Tacks are used with a metal last underneath so the tip curls around and back into the leather . When tacks are used the method is called riveting . A lot of old timey shoes were rivet construction  not a welt construction . 

 Related but not the same is pegging , where wooden pegs about the diameter of a match are used as a substitute for nails . It is an interesting method that has its own tools, procedure and  purpose .  Nails can rust and fall out when the leather gets wet and expands or loosens . Wooden pegs expand with the leather and tend to stay put . The method is still used in cowboy boots made in the US and mexico . I have done it a few times but i am no expert . Perhaps a US cowboy boot maker can give is some insights  on the how and whys .

[Mulesaw]

That is really a nice looking press. 

I think I know how you feel with that wire coil heel attaching machine. Those old machines that are purely mechanical are small engineering marvels in their own right. And it is cams and levers that do all the job. Absolutely fascinating to watch. 
I am looking for a mechanical heel press, and a boot shaft enlarger (probably not the correct name), but I also try to tell myself that I should build some more knowledge about the process before building a bigger tool collection :-)

 

[jcuk]

On 7/4/2024 at 11:52 AM, Tastech said:

Saddle makers pliers . Not exactly sure what they are specifically used for , but i think these too are referred to as bull dogs .

Yes they are called bull dogs, they used to block the seat on saddles.

 

19 hours ago, TomE said:

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.  Great information and fun stories! I look forward to learning more.  Your description of nails reminds me of horse shoe nails.  There is a (dying?) fad of coating nails with copper that supposedly inhibits growth of bacteria in the nail hole.  Maybe they also keep the farrier's breath fresh? 

They have been using these for a good few years over here in racing and guess what still get foot problems and your right just a gimmick in my opinion, so they can charge more even the farriers i know don't really know for sure. One thing for sure with horse owners they love the latest new thing and with some of them there's none so blind as those who do not want to see.

[Tastech]

 I found these for sale on Ebay . Quite cheap if you live in the US . I think the boxes are collectible  if you are inclined to .

 Left to right 

Copper or brass plated lasting nails . Note the word sterilized

Middle and right . Hold fast nails . These are the spiral shanked nails used to nail on a stacked leather heel from the inside of the shoe as i mentioned in a post previously   . Can also be used for the heel rubber but it depends on how big the head is. As a general rule . Big head = inside. Small head =  outside heel rubber