Holster Thread size(s)

[Regis]

What thread size is everyone using on your holsters. I have been using 346 and them bobbins sure empty quick. Is there a difference on IWB, OWB, Western, etc? I know I can drop down 1 size for bobbin but, it is prett convenient to sew from either side, top or bottom (as long as the stitch is adjusted equal). Is 207 too light? Wear & safety is my primary interest.

Appreciate any discussion/input.

Regis

[Luke Hatley]

What thread size is everyone using on your holsters. I have been using 346 and them bobbins sure empty quick. Is there a difference on IWB, OWB, Western, etc? I know I can drop down 1 size for bobbin but, it is prett convenient to sew from either side, top or bottom (as long as the stitch is adjusted equal). Is 207 too light? Wear & safety is my primary interest.

Appreciate any discussion/input.

Regis

HEY REGIS...277 works great for me on my Sewmo and in the Bobbin

if i need it.most of the time 277-top 207-bottom

[BOOMSTICKHolsters]

Regis, I like using 277 top and bottom on all of my holsters, whether OWB, IWB or pocket. I know of several makers who use 346 on top and 277 in the bobbin. I would say since you already use 346 to try that first, and work your way down if you find it's necessary.

[Regis]

Luke, Boom,

I searched thread, size, 207, 277, 346 one at a time in holsters and sewing but did not find anything until finally I searched for "thread size". Then I found where this had been discussed before. Yours seems to match the conclusion in the other posts. Thanks as I may never have gotten the search right.

Thanks,

Regis

Edited February 18, 2008 by Regis

[esantoro]

Regis, I like using 277 top and bottom on all of my holsters, whether OWB, IWB or pocket. I know of several makers who use 346 on top and 277 in the bobbin. I would say since you already use 346 to try that first, and work your way down if you find it's necessary.

Boom, are you hand stitching with 277/277? For the life of me I can't get my 441 cylinder arm machine to pull up the lockstitch into the leather, but than I'm not stitching two layers of 10 oz veg tan either. I'll give that a try.

Mainly I'm working with two sometimes three layers of 5/6/7 oz chrome tan, veg tan, latigo, and bridle leather.

ed

[Art]

Hi Regis,

For cowboy, I have been using 346/277 and have been threatening to go to 277/207. However with 346/277, I have to dig a pretty deep stitch groove to get 346 to lay low enough that the buckle doesn't wear the thread (this is for the D/S billet). Campbell is always 5cord/4cord, which looks a lot like 277/207.

Art

What thread size is everyone using on your holsters. I have been using 346 and them bobbins sure empty quick. Is there a difference on IWB, OWB, Western, etc? I know I can drop down 1 size for bobbin but, it is prett convenient to sew from either side, top or bottom (as long as the stitch is adjusted equal). Is 207 too light? Wear & safety is my primary interest.

Appreciate any discussion/input.

Regis

[BOOMSTICKHolsters]

Boom, are you hand stitching with 277/277? For the life of me I can't get my 441 cylinder arm machine to pull up the lockstitch into the leather, but than I'm not stitching two layers of 10 oz veg tan either. I'll give that a try.

Mainly I'm working with two sometimes three layers of 5/6/7 oz chrome tan, veg tan, latigo, and bridle leather.

ed

When I hand stitched I used much heavier waxed thread and locked the stitch by hand (which got pretty rough on my hands and fingers after a while). I'm using a Toro 3000 to stitch these days. I don't really have any problems with the stitches not locking where they are supposed to. Maybe you need to increase the tension on the top stitch? Another thing you might try is to brush warm water where the stitches will run on the back of your work before you stitch it. I do this when I am using denser hides and it works pretty well to sink the thread into the surface of the leather.

[esantoro]

When I hand stitched I used much heavier waxed thread and locked the stitch by hand (which got pretty rough on my hands and fingers after a while). I'm using a Toro 3000 to stitch these days. I don't really have any problems with the stitches not locking where they are supposed to. Maybe you need to increase the tension on the top stitch? Another thing you might try is to brush warm water where the stitches will run on the back of your work before you stitch it. I do this when I am using denser hides and it works pretty well to sink the thread into the surface of the leather.

ooooh, that's a nice idea with the water.

If you can and you have the chance could you post pictures of the primary and secondary tensioners on your 3000? I'm curious to see how many threads are exposed on those tensioner bolts. I've had both ratcheted to about nine threads showing, which made pulling out top thread with the tensioner discs apart a bit difficult. This was telling me that my top thread was plenty tight and that I should look elsewhere for the fix.

Thanks again for the water idea.

Thanks

[BOOMSTICKHolsters]

I actually don't have my tension that tight. Maybe you have too much tension to your bobbin? If you don't get it figured out soon I'll try to get a pic for you. You're welcome for the water trick. That's actually something I figured out all by myself.

You know what they say: "Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while".

[esantoro]

I actually don't have my tension that tight. Maybe you have too much tension to your bobbin? If you don't get it figured out soon I'll try to get a pic for you. You're welcome for the water trick. That's actually something I figured out all by myself.

You know what they say: "Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while".

A few weeks ago I did start slacking off on the bobbin tension, but it still does seem that the advice floating around out there is to go 277/207 and 346/277, which suites my situation, though I do wish still to have same top and bottom sizes.

Ed

[mliebs8]

I don't have the exact thread count on mine but the top tension is about flush (no threads showing) and the next one probably has about 4-5 threads showing in the nut.

[esantoro]

Thanks for the replies regarding tension settings. For those of you who to run 277/277 or 346/346, how would you describe the ease with which you can pull out your bobbin thread by hand up and out of the needle plate. I would say that prior to a month or so ago I had had my bobbin tension rather tight, tight enough to where if I had to pull out lengths all day I'd probably have abrasions on my hand. Now I have the tension set about as loose as it can possibly be. Any looser and the bobbin thread would start slipping out from in between the forked tongue of the bobbin tension clip/spring. Also the tension is set such that the thread can be pulled out with ease. I would say the bobbin tension is set as low as it can possibly go.

Ed

[Luke Hatley]

ED............imho. i have been told that the 346 thread on top or bobbin is designed

to be used in a Needle & Awl machine. i have tried it in my Sewmo and it pushes it to the limit

with veg tanned leather thicker than 9 oz.

I will use 277 & 207 have no problems...

then again i have no problem with sewing Latigo or thick chrome tanned leather with 346 thread.

[esantoro]

ED............imho. i have been told that the 346 thread on top or bobbin is designed to be used in a Needle & Awl machine. i have tried it in my Sewmo and it pushes it to the limitwith veg tanned leather thicker than 9 oz.I will use 277 & 207 have no problems...then again i have no problem with sewing Latigo or thick chrome tanned leather with 346 thread.

Thanks luke. I'll probably stick to 277/207and 346/277. Just always curious to understand further what exactly these machines can and cannot do.

I would love to be able to be a fly on the wall and see just how everyone operates their heavy stitchers.

Ed

Edited February 19, 2008 by esantoro

[Srigs]

I'm planning to use 346/277 route with my new Toro 3000. Boomstick great idea on the wetting the back side.

[bcurrier]

ED............imho. i have been told that the 346 thread on top or bobbin is designed

to be used in a Needle & Awl machine. i have tried it in my Sewmo and it pushes it to the limit

with veg tanned leather thicker than 9 oz.

I will use 277 & 207 have no problems...

then again i have no problem with sewing Latigo or thick chrome tanned leather with 346 thread.

Far heavier threads than 346 are used widely in needle machines in far heavier material weights than veg tanned leather. It's common in cheap marine sewing, for example, to stitch with heavy thread right through both material and plywood when making seats. Technical textiles, like safety equipment and cargo slings, are sewn on needle machines, too. While it's true that the super-duty machines have to be beefed up to take the stress, 346 isn't a stretch for a machine that's designed to handle 277, at least in the top thread. It may be too much for the bobbin in your machine without some adjustments, though.

Given your description, if you're having trouble with 346, it's more likely the thread, needle and leather weight combination than the machine itself, or thread per se. Piercing the leather isn't the issue, as I assume you have no problem stitching with lighter threads in veg tanned leather well over 9oz.

The dimensions of the needle scarf and groove determine how the thread is pulled and tensioned for a given thread and material weight. Most people think about sewing tension as only a balance between top and bobbin tensions. The reality is that the material itself and the needle play critical roles, one reason that bobbin tension is so forgiving.

Describing it another way, if you use the right needle and thread combination for a given weight, varying the top tension over any reasonable range will move the stitch lock a bit, but you'll sew successfully. Use the wrong needle and thread combination for the material, and you'll get a mess that looks like a tension problem, but isn't. It will feel like pushing the machine, particularly with too small a needle, as the thread won't sit properly in the groove and will jam and pull. The fact that you can sew latigo but not veg tanned leather in the same weights points all the more to the needle, as the latigo will be more forgiving of the groove sizing.

Chances are pretty high that you're using the wrong needle in the veg tanned leather, or at the outside, have 346 thread that is unusually thick. You could try 346 in the top with 207 or 277 in the bobbin, using a larger needle. You could also try another needle brand and, of course, different thread. Good luck. Sometimes it takes some figuring out.

Bill