Stubben Saddle Billets

[TomE]

4 hours ago, jcuk said:

No i was only saying i get them from Abbey because i was cutting mine from stirrup butts and ending up bits left over that were getting thrown in the scrape bin for later repairs but they slowly built up ended with loads of unused off cuts because they in reality probably odd lengths and could not be used for any thing other than other than splitting them down for use for making loops which i had plenty of scrape for that anyway. There might be somewhere your side of the pond that may sell them. When i first started this game i use to use a old billet as a template to mark the holes use a bigger awl for the holes only because funds were short i only had enough to buy enough tools to make a bridle, but now have a strap pricker for that job saves time, they do differ from pricking irons, i use heavy gauge tiger thread for mine its the only time i use man made thread other than if i am recovering rubber reins on the machine where i use poly, if hand stitching i use linen. When i did my training we were taught to use 6/18 linen thread doubled but i think because the saddle webbing is man made its more abrasive than the linen thread thats why i use tiger thread now but if i had no tiger would still use 6/19 linen simply because never had any issues with it. 

 

Hope this helps

JCUK

This is the only supplier of chrome tanned billet leather and cut billets that I have found in North America https://boothandco.com/products/booth-saddle-strap-leather-rawhide-cow-billet.  Don't know of any rawhide billet suppliers here.  Guess I should try some of their billets to see how the leather compares to Hermann Oak harness leather.  Which tannery(ies) in the UK make billet leather?

Also, how do you finish the edges of chrome tanned or rawhide billets?  Just bevel with an edger, or can you burnish the edge?

 

Edited October 26, 2024 by TomE

[jcuk]

On 10/26/2024 at 4:10 PM, TomE said:

This is the only supplier of chrome tanned billet leather and cut billets that I have found in North America https://boothandco.com/products/booth-saddle-strap-leather-rawhide-cow-billet.  Don't know of any rawhide billet suppliers here.  Guess I should try some of their billets to see how the leather compares to Hermann Oak harness leather.  Which tannery(ies) in the UK make billet leather?

Also, how do you finish the edges of chrome tanned or rawhide billets?  Just bevel with an edger, or can you burnish the edge?

 

The links below is the type of leather i have used to make them, i used Sedgwick stirrup butts, never used John Whites but have used their bridle butts a while ago, nice leather hope it is still is. I would not go below 4.8mm also i use Metropolitan leather their heavy Bridle butts are 5mm but you have to ask for that weight. When i buy ready made billets all i do is stain the edges and mark the holes don't feel there is a need to edge shave them. 

https://www.abbeyengland.com/leather/stirrup-butts/

https://www.metropolitanleather.com/Buy-Leather/buy-equestrian-leather/Coloured-Old-English-Bridle-Butt 

Will add not trying to drum up trade for them just being honest these are my mine go to for my leather and as Metropolitan are a near enough drive i can choose the leather myself. I see Abbey also carry some Hermann tooling leather half tempted to see what it like even though i don't do any tooling should not think they have the best grade though. AA. Crack have  Wickett & Craig leather also tempted, when reading on here about those two i think i would prefer Wickett & Craig.

Hope this helps

JCUK 

 

[TomE]

Looks like nice stuff and reasonably priced, but the shipping costs...ouch!  I have purchased some hardware, rein grips, small stuff from Abbey England and the shipping cost has been $80+ on these small packages.

Today I ordered some 4.5-5 mm chrome tanned billet bends from Booth and Co. in New York.  The bends are produced by Thomas Ware and Sons in Bristol.  Know anything about that tannery?  Will compare it to HO harness that is reasonably stiff and arguably better than some of the billets I see on high end saddles over here.

I'll put in a plug for Hermann Oak leather.  I've purchased quite a few sides of bridle, harness, and plain veg tanned leather from them directly and from several retailers.  I've received one side that was a disappointment, called the vendor and they reported that HO was having a problem getting some machine maintenance done during the pandemic.  They offered a return but I just kept it for odds and ends projects.  Everything else from HO has been fine - consistent temper, good finish, etc.  I have purchased one side of Wickett & Craig bridle, and they included a large collection of samples (lots of colors) with the order.  The finish is beautiful, although not as lustrous as HO bridle - more of a matte finish even after conditioning.  The temper of W&C is a bit softer.  Good stuff but I am used to working with HO bridle leather.

[jcuk]

On 10/29/2024 at 12:58 AM, TomE said:

Looks like nice stuff and reasonably priced, but the shipping costs...ouch!  I have purchased some hardware, rein grips, small stuff from Abbey England and the shipping cost has been $80+ on these small packages.

Today I ordered some 4.5-5 mm chrome tanned billet bends from Booth and Co. in New York.  The bends are produced by Thomas Ware and Sons in Bristol.  Know anything about that tannery?  Will compare it to HO harness that is reasonably stiff and arguably better than some of the billets I see on high end saddles over here.

I'll put in a plug for Hermann Oak leather.  I've purchased quite a few sides of bridle, harness, and plain veg tanned leather from them directly and from several retailers.  I've received one side that was a disappointment, called the vendor and they reported that HO was having a problem getting some machine maintenance done during the pandemic.  They offered a return but I just kept it for odds and ends projects.  Everything else from HO has been fine - consistent temper, good finish, etc.  I have purchased one side of Wickett & Craig bridle, and they included a large collection of samples (lots of colors) with the order.  The finish is beautiful, although not as lustrous as HO bridle - more of a matte finish even after conditioning.  The temper of W&C is a bit softer.  Good stuff but I am used to working with HO bridle leather.

I know of them but never had any leather from them, but think they may have a minimum order clause, a saddler i know told me they are quite pricey because i was looking at their latigo not many places here carry it.  I tend to stick with what and who i know i like Sedgwick and what i get from Metropolitan.  A few years ago Sedgwick nearly went to the wall Abbey and others in consortium saved them i think one was a German company cant say who though, Abbey have done that a few times Equus was another i know of. Here is a  link to J.&F.J. Baker. never used them but its supposed to be really nice and strong but again pricey but nice to see a tannery still doing that way, may treat my self in the new year. Having said it was pricey not sure if their price list is up to date but it looks like its cheaper than Sedgwick so looking good for the new year me thinks.

https://www.jfjbaker.co.uk

Edited November 5, 2024 by jcuk

[TackCollector]

The riveted billets were on a point billet, riveted to the tree, right?    A "point billet" is traditionally riveted to the tree point.  Not all saddles or horses require a point billet.   I read somewhere that the purpose of point billets is to anchor the saddle tree point back behind the scapula on a horse with a forward girth groove.   Cutback (Lane Fox) saddles have traditionally always had those.  Some of the USA made Campbells by Whitman are actually the only cutbacks I've seen that lacked point billets.   Many but not all dressage saddles have them.    Lovatt & Ricketts and Freedman and perhaps others over 20 years ago started riveting a piece of webbing to the tree points, instead of riveting the leather billets themselves.  Then when it comes time to replace the billets, the repair person doesn't have to take much apart.  If the webs hang down or stretched far enough with use, the repair person may not even have to drop the panels to remove the old billets and stitch new ones on.  This photo is a L&R Louisville cutback saddle made in 2002.

[TackCollector]

This is how Freedman does their webbing.   This is a 1996 or 1997 saddle.  Freedman saddles were built like a tank back then.   There is nothing else like them.  I haven't seen any of the newer layered leather ones in person so I can't count on their construction.   I'm not a fan of layered leather on cutbacks.  The huge flaps are too much acreage to rely on glue alone.   And I hate the way that soft sticky leather mars too easily.

[TomE]

Thanks for this information, @TackCollector.  I really enjoy learning about how English saddles are made and repaired, and would welcome any suggestions for references.  The old books (printed in the 1960s-1970s) on saddlemaking that I've collected don't cover the newer construction methods.

[TackCollector]

On 12/3/2024 at 7:41 AM, TomE said:

Thanks for this information, @TackCollector.  I really enjoy learning about how English saddles are made and repaired, and would welcome any suggestions for references.  The old books (printed in the 1960s-1970s) on saddlemaking that I've collected don't cover the newer construction methods.

I really don't have any reference books on modern methods, either.  I have one British book,  Repair Your Own Saddlery and Harness,  A Step-by-Step Guide, by Robert H. Steinke.   ISBN 0-85131-597-6,  1994. published by J. A, Allen, London.    It's probably out of print.   It is more of a book that gives the gist of things, not a full tutorial.   https://www.bookfinder.com/author/robert-steinke/

[TomE]

8 hours ago, TackCollector said:

I really don't have any reference books on modern methods, either.  I have one British book,  Repair Your Own Saddlery and Harness,  A Step-by-Step Guide, by Robert H. Steinke.   ISBN 0-85131-597-6,  1994. published by J. A, Allen, London.    It's probably out of print.   It is more of a book that gives the gist of things, not a full tutorial.   https://www.bookfinder.com/author/robert-steinke/

Thanks for your reply.  I have serveral of Steinke's books on saddlery, harness, and bridlework that have been very helpful.  He is doing some saddlery work again and occasionally posts on Facebook and Youtube.