Machine threads

[barra]

Now I know I asked the first part of my question before but DO YOU THINK I SAVED THE ANSWER. noooooooooooooooo.

I am familiar with the ticket numbering system of sewing machine treads. Ticket 12, 18, 25, 36, 40 etc. The lower the number the thicker the thread.

You guys refer to threads with numbers like 277 etc. Can someone please explan you numbering system again and yes I just gave myself a few swift uppercuts..

My second Q has more than likely been asked before but I can't find the answer. Why do some of you have different sized thread for the top and bobbin and what is the benefit of this practice.

Barra

Edited February 19, 2008 by barra

[Art]

Hi Barra,

On ticket numbers:

US TkT/Metric Ticket

33/100

60/46

69/40

92/30

138/20

207/13

277/10

346/8

415/7

554/5

693/4

We also have a system called TEX and it is close to the US Tkt, for instance 138 TKT is 135 TEX.

We use smaller thread in bobbins

1. To make them last longer

2. It gives a tighter stitch (Straight from old Campbell Manual)

Art

Now I know I asked the first part of my question before but DO YOU THINK I SAVED THE ANSWER. noooooooooooooooo.

I am familiar with the ticket numbering system of sewing machine treads. Ticket 12, 18, 25, 36, 40 etc. The lower the number the thicker the thread.

You guys refer to threads with numbers like 277 etc. Can someone please explan you numbering system again and yes I just gave myself a few swift uppercuts..

My second Q has more than likely been asked before but I can't find the answer. Why do some of you have different sized thread for the top and bobbin and what is the benefit of this practice.

Barra

[bcurrier]

The numbers ARE ticket numbers. "Ticket" is just a different word for size, and there are a number of different sizing systems. A lot of the confusion comes from the fact that certain systems are typically used only for certain types of thread (like cord specification for linen threads and cotton count for cotton threads. The system most leatherworkers use for Nylon and Polyester threads is technically obsolete. The way I deal with it from a relative sizing point of view is to bring those numbers back to Tex size, which can be found for any thread type. Tex is the gram weight of 1000 meters of thread. For comparison, the Tex size of typical household thread is about T-40.

For the thread system we use, those are as follows (old ticket size first, Tex second):

33 T-30

46 T-45

69 T-70

92 T-90

138 T-135

207 T-210

277 T-270

346 T-350

415 T-400

554 T-600

693 T-700

Bill

Edited February 19, 2008 by bcurrier

[esantoro]

The numbers ARE ticket numbers. "Ticket" is just a different word for size, and there are a number of different sizing systems. A lot of the confusion comes from the fact that certain systems are typically used only for certain types of thread (like cord specification for linen threads and cotton count for cotton threads. The system most leatherworkers use for Nylon and Polyester threads is technically obsolete. The way I deal with it from a relative sizing point of view is to bring those numbers back to Tex size, which can be found for any thread type. Tex is the gram weight of 1000 meters of thread. For comparison, the Tex size of typical household thread is about T-40.

For the thread system we use, those are as follows (old ticket size first, Tex second):

33 T-30

46 T-45

69 T-70

92 T-90

138 T-135

207 T-210

277 T-270

346 T-350

415 T-400

554 T-600

693 T-700

Bill

Thanks for this info , Bill.

Is the obsolete system for nylon and poly the 207/277/346 system or another? I had always wondered what was the reason for 277 and T-270 demarcation. Sometimes when you call up a supplier, they are more familiar with a particular system.

ed

[bcurrier]

It's the same size system for both. It actually could be used for any thread construction, I suppose, but in practice seems to be used only for certain types of nylon and poly threads. I've never read a description of the system itself, but believe it was intended to convey the thread size (or diameter).

Tex, on the other hand, is a weight specification. It is -a- metric specification because it's expressed in grams & meters ... but it is not the metric size per se.

Different suppliers may be more familiar with one system or another because of the industries they serve. If a supplier services the leather industry with nylon, for example, chances are they will use the old U.S. ticket system. If they are servicing the luggage industry, they will probably use denier. Technical textiles like webbing and safety equipment - probably Tex. The international market - metric size. Etc.

Bill

[Art]

Hi Ed,

In the US, it is both ways. A&E uses the TEX system pretty much while Coats uses the "old" TKT. Foreign manufacturers who do business tend to use the "old" TKT like Linhanyl. Eddington was using old TKT last time I looked. But if you are buying a large amount of thread, the companies are going to put whatever labels you want on them. If you do business with the US Gov, they have their own sizes (letters in smaller sizes and one digit numbers in larger sizes). Probably the most used system in the world is the metric system where the thread size is determined by the number of 1000 meter hanks of a particular thread it takes to make a kilogram. This is the system they use in Europe and Australia and pretty much the rest of the world. There are some other sizes that are also used for nylon and poly that you see occasionally.

Then there is the yarn size we are familiar with and is usually used on linen and cotton threads. This is two numbers separated by a slash. The first number is the yarn size which is the number of 840 yard hanks of a particular thread it takes to make a pound (God knows someone has to have converted that to a metric equivalence, but it ain't going to be me), then a slash, then the number of plys of that yarn size, for example 18/3 is what we commonly call 3-cord linen. There seems to be some obsessive compulsive thing going on with those sizes as I just got some 4-cord Barbour's in marked 20/4.

So whatever company you are dealing with, and wherever you are, you have to use whatever system the supplier uses.

Art

Thanks for this info , Bill.

Is the obsolete system for nylon and poly the 207/277/346 system or another? I had always wondered what was the reason for 277 and T-270 demarcation. Sometimes when you call up a supplier, they are more familiar with a particular system.

ed

[esantoro]

Hi Ed,

In the US, it is both ways. A&E uses the TEX system pretty much while Coats uses the "old" TKT. Foreign manufacturers who do business tend to use the "old" TKT like Linhanyl. Eddington was using old TKT last time I looked. But if you are buying a large amount of thread, the companies are going to put whatever labels you want on them. If you do business with the US Gov, they have their own sizes (letters in smaller sizes and one digit numbers in larger sizes). Probably the most used system in the world is the metric system where the thread size is determined by the number of 1000 meter hanks of a particular thread it takes to make a kilogram. This is the system they use in Europe and Australia and pretty much the rest of the world. There are some other sizes that are also used for nylon and poly that you see occasionally.

Then there is the yarn size we are familiar with and is usually used on linen and cotton threads. This is two numbers separated by a slash. The first number is the yarn size which is the number of 840 yard hanks of a particular thread it takes to make a pound (God knows someone has to have converted that to a metric equivalence, but it ain't going to be me), then a slash, then the number of plys of that yarn size, for example 18/3 is what we commonly call 3-cord linen. There seems to be some obsessive compulsive thing going on with those sizes as I just got some 4-cord Barbour's in marked 20/4.

So whatever company you are dealing with, and wherever you are, you have to use whatever system the supplier uses.

Art

Art,

I'm really lovin' this eddington, deer and chestnut. love the colors, the way it lies down. I think Eddington will be my number 1 from from now on. With the initial letters "Ed" you can never go wrong.

Thanks for the sizing system rundown.

Ed

Ed

[bcurrier]

Then there is the yarn size we are familiar with and is usually used on linen and cotton threads. This is two numbers separated by a slash. The first number is the yarn size which is the number of 840 yard hanks of a particular thread it takes to make a pound (God knows someone has to have converted that to a metric equivalence, but it ain't going to be me), then a slash, then the number of plys of that yarn size, for example 18/3 is what we commonly call 3-cord linen. There seems to be some obsessive compulsive thing going on with those sizes as I just got some 4-cord Barbour's in marked 20/4.

You have to be extremely careful with thread specifications given with a slash. Yarn sizing is the basic system, but variations incorporating yarn sizing can present thread size in terms of a 1-ply, 2-ply, or 3-ply equivalent threads. A cotton count spec (3-ply equivalent), for example, can look exactly like a yarn size spec, but will refer to a very different size thread.

Cord specifications confuse the dickens out of me. For some reason I thought they were completely different than yarn size specs, but can't find my references right now.

Bill

[bcurrier]

Found a good link summarizing thread sizes. Seems to be accurate, too.

http://designer-entrepreneurs.com/blog/ill...hread_Sizes.htm

Linen count, by the way, is based on 300 yard hanks, and is different than cotton count (yarn size).

Bill

[Art]

Hi Bill,

Right you are. And wool is different still. If you really want something confusing, go to an embroidery or knitting show with the wife. They use numbers that aren't based on anything, and it seems that different manufacturers use different numbers that aren't based on anything. It just seems so much simpler THAT way.

Art

Found a good link summarizing thread sizes. Seems to be accurate, too.

http://designer-entrepreneurs.com/blog/ill...hread_Sizes.htm

Linen count, by the way, is based on 300 yard hanks, and is different than cotton count (yarn size).

Bill

[barra]

Thanks for the info Guys. All have clear and concise info and given me a better understanding of thread sizes.

Much appreciated

P.S. Info saved.

Barra