Landis 3 Needle and Awl machine not stitching correctly

[knotzo]

Just got a Landis 3 machine. I've watched all the videos and read everything I could find, but not sure what is causing the rats nest of thread on the underside. I've never had a chance to use one of these machines before, so it is all new to me. I'm pretty sure I have the top and bobbin threaded correctly, as there a some good videos out there.  I'm running nylon bonded 346 on the top and 277 on the bottom. Anyone have any ideas what is going on with this machine?

[dozernmike]

Did you get this working?

[Goldshot Ron]

I just saw this thread.  The one thing that I think I see, is that the bobbin is threaded incorrectly in the shuttle.  Sewing with the cover off will also affect how it sews.  I have messed with my Landis 3 for almost 7 years, and I still do not have faith in it nor myself to tackle a real project.

[Wizcrafts]

There are five possible explanations for the birdsnest on the bottom.

1. The bobbin tension is too tight, or becomes tight as you sew due to improper winding, or the alignment of the bobbin in the shuttle.
2. The top thread is not getting pinched by the top tensioners, or is simply too weak to pull the thread up.
3. The top thread is coming out of the tensioners as you sew.
4. The top thread is not feeding through the take-up arm/lever on the upstroke. It must be pulled up to form a stitch.
5. The awl is too small. The hole must be large enough to make room for the lockstitch knots to pull up inside the hole in the leather.

Check your parts manual to ensure that nothing is missing in the take-up and tensioning system. And, put the cover back on the shuttle compartment!

It's also remotely possible that the machine was previously set up for waxed linen thread. You may be dealing with was residue on the rollers, guides and tensioners.

[Gloryshine]

It sounds like your top thread tension may be too loose or the bobbin tension too tight, causing the top thread to not pull the bottom thread up properly—leading to the "rat’s nest" underneath. Double-check threading, tension settings, and ensure the needle is the correct size for the thread.

[mbnaegle]

On most needle-n-awl lockstitch machines, you do not have an adjustable tension like on other sewing machines. Depending on the make, they usually have thread breaks on top that are not adjusted to give variable tension. They either lock the thread, or allow it to slip, depending on what part of the cycle the machine is in. If the breaks are locked (usually when the take-up motion is happening, pulling the loop from the bottom), the thread should not be able to move at all. If you pull on the thread and it slips at all, then the breaks are worn or out of adjustment. Many of these lockstitch machines are known for their tight stitch, and when properly adjusted you stand more chance of tearing the top thread than getting it to pull through the break mechanism.

Often, loops on the bottom of the work are because the breaks are letting thread slip by while the take-up motion is happening. Instead of pulling the loop all the way up, it just pulls more thread off of the spool. If the breaks are working like they should, the position of the lock is not governed by upper tension so much as by the mechanical motion that is creating, pulling down, then taking up the loop. If that loop is made too big or too small, or it see's resistance as it's going down or coming back up, you will get frayed or broken thread, or looping on the bottom. On a Landis 3, your adjusting points for this will be the position that the thread eye and looper are set to, the height of the needle in the needle bar, the take-up adjustment (through the big slot on the front of the neck), and the gear mesh on the take-up rolls on top.

Having the machine threaded correctly and using the right size needle and awl for the thread you are using are important 1st steps.

The bobbin tension is often set too tight too, or is tight because the flat spring on the side is bent wrong or isn't threaded right. The bobbin tension is not really supposed to balance the stitch, working against the pull that the top thread is seeing. It needs a consistent drag, but not heavy, as it's primary purpose is to control the bobbin thread and keep it from unwinding itself. The top thread does all the work and the bottom thread follows it's lead, and if the bottom thread has a lot of tension, it will cause problems for the top.

One other thing to add is that on Landis 3's, Campbells, and Randalls, there isn't really any timing adjustment to sync the bottom and top ends together. They rely on parts being pined together semi-permanently and there shouldn't be any play in the cams, levers, etc. Normally these parts are fairly bulletproof though. It's something to be aware of if you have a worn machine or one that a past owner has monkeyed with things, you either have to reverse the damage or replace parts in those cases.

Edited June 20 by mbnaegle