Needle sizes for my Artisan 246

[Piko]

Hello esteemed leathercrafters from which I am learning everything about this new machine of mine. 
i have been using the Artisan 246 for a few weeks now and, after I was able to add some extra pieces, it’s running great. 
I have a Groz Beckert  #18 on it now with the Vinymo #8 (close to a v92) and it works great but I would like smaller holes.
I used the size #18 with the Vinymo #5 (close to a v138) and it works better because the holes from the needle are less noticeable due to the thread being thicker. My question is, can this machine use a size #16?

I think I would like the smaller hole but I am not sure if it will mess up the whole tuning and dont want to damage the machine. 
anyone knows?

As always : thank you in advance. 
 

[kgg]

 

8 hours ago, Piko said:

can this machine use a size #16?

From their website ( https://artisansew.com/cylinderarmandpostbedmachine.html )

" Fabrics: 135 x 17 Size(14 to 23). Leather: 135 x 16 TRI Size(14 to 23) "

Using undersized needles for your thread my cause problems depending on the thickness and toughness of the leather as the hole the needle makes has to allow for not only the top thread but the twice the thickness of the bobbin thread. If the material is sticky or the needle hole is to small you can get skipped stitches. Here is a good cross reference of recommended needle sizes for various thread sizes. ( https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html ).

According to this website ( https://districtleathersupply.com/products/vinymo-mbt-size-5-0-6mm-polyester-thread-full-spool ):

Sizing
Size 8:  Comparable to machine thread size 92
Size 5:  Slightly thicker than machine thread size 138
Size 1:  Slightly thinner than machine thread size 207 

#8 - 0.5mm

#5 - 0.6mm

#1 - .75mm

#0 - 1.00mm

When you compare those thread generally accepted thread dimensions to the chart I referenced something is way off. I would strongly suggest contacting both Artisan as the 246 appears to be rated for up to V138 thread and the manufacturer of the thread ( https://nagai--yoriito-com.translate.goog/eng/pages/13/?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc ) or the US distributor ( www.districtleathersupply.com )

V92 - 0.337mm

V138 - 0.414mm

V207 - 0.508mm

V277 - 0.586mm

Also here is a pretty good review of the Vinymo thread  from a previous discussion in 2022.

 

 

 

kgg

 

[Piko]

5 hours ago, kgg said:

 

From their website ( https://artisansew.com/cylinderarmandpostbedmachine.html )

" Fabrics: 135 x 17 Size(14 to 23). Leather: 135 x 16 TRI Size(14 to 23) "

Using undersized needles for your thread my cause problems depending on the thickness and toughness of the leather as the hole the needle makes has to allow for not only the top thread but the twice the thickness of the bobbin thread. If the material is sticky or the needle hole is to small you can get skipped stitches. Here is a good cross reference of recommended needle sizes for various thread sizes. ( https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html ).

According to this website ( https://districtleathersupply.com/products/vinymo-mbt-size-5-0-6mm-polyester-thread-full-spool 😞

Sizing
Size 8:  Comparable to machine thread size 92
Size 5:  Slightly thicker than machine thread size 138
Size 1:  Slightly thinner than machine thread size 207 

#8 - 0.5mm

#5 - 0.6mm

#1 - .75mm

#0 - 1.00mm

When you compare those thread generally accepted thread dimensions to the chart I referenced something is way off. I would strongly suggest contacting both Artisan as the 246 appears to be rated for up to V138 thread and the manufacturer of the thread ( https://nagai--yoriito-com.translate.goog/eng/pages/13/?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc ) or the US distributor ( www.districtleathersupply.com )

V92 - 0.337mm

V138 - 0.414mm

V207 - 0.508mm

V277 - 0.586mm

Also here is a pretty good review of the Vinymo thread  from a previous discussion in 2022.

 

 

 

kgg

 

Hey Kgg,  

Thank you so much for the info. I remember reading the needle sizes somewhere on the Artisan website and was searching through the manual etc but missed it right in front of me on the first page. Thank you for that. 
Now I just need to find the right needle. I am gonna look for 135x16 size #16 leather point, right? Thank you.

i have used Vinymo for a long time for saddle stitching and it is my favorite. I was pleasantly surprised when I read it could be used for machine stitching because I know it is very strong as reliable.    
 

Thank you for your help. 

[Piko]

I ve found this at Sailrite. 
 

 

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Piko said:

I ve found this at Sailrite. 

You also might want to check wawak.com for needles 135x16 x size 16 needles ( https://www.wawak.com/sewing/sewing-needles/industrial-sewing-machine-needles/schmetz-leather-industrial-machine-needles-135x16-tri-dpx16-d-10pack/#sku=smnl135116  ). I would not advise you to use a thread larger then V69 with #16 needle.

My personal option on the Vinymo thread is yes it can be used in sewing machines but really is meant for those with Class 441 machines like the Juki TSC441 as well as the clones like the Cobra Class 4 and the Cowboy 4500 or the one arm bandits like the Cowboy Outlaw or Tippman Boss to name a few.

kgg

[Piko]

51 minutes ago, kgg said:

You also might want to check wawak.com for needles 135x16 x size 16 needles ( https://www.wawak.com/sewing/sewing-needles/industrial-sewing-machine-needles/schmetz-leather-industrial-machine-needles-135x16-tri-dpx16-d-10pack/#sku=smnl135116  ). I would not advise you to use a thread larger then V69 with #16 needle.

My personal option on the Vinymo thread is yes it can be used in sewing machines but really is meant for those with Class 441 machines like the Juki TSC441 as well as the clones like the Cobra Class 4 and the Cowboy 4500 or the one arm bandits like the Cowboy Outlaw or Tippman Boss to name a few.

kgg

I already bought them from Sailrite but thanks for the website, I’ll save it for next time. 
So, I understand the thread recommendation about the #16 needle but, I also read that I should not put a v138 on an #18 and, to be honest, i think that combination works great on my machines. No skipped stitches and no tension problems that I can tell but I am no professional. The only problem I am having is when I backstitch even if I go in the same hole it messes up the bottom stitch but that happens even if I use larger needles keeping the v138.  Also, I do use the vinymo on my Tippman Boss and Sailrite Ultrafeed. 

Since the not recommended v138 on the #18 needle works for me I am hoping it would be the same with the #16 and the v92 (Vinymo #8). I wont be able to tell until I receive the needles though 

What should I be looking for to see if the match is not a good one? Skipped stitches or anything else? 
 

Thank you for all of your help. 
 

[Northmount]

1 hour ago, Piko said:

The only problem I am having is when I backstitch even if I go in the same hole it messes up the bottom stitch but that happens even if I use larger needles keeping the v138.

May be due to the knots being thicker than the leather, so can't be hidden in the leather.

This table might be of help for you too. 

[Piko]

On 4/22/2025 at 2:26 PM, Northmount said:

May be due to the knots being thicker than the leather, so can't be hidden in the leather.

This table might be of help for you too. 

I never even thought of that! Thank you!