pictures of my workspace

[esantoro]

Hi Ed,

You are going to have to test, I would start with the neatsfoot compound, then the neatsfoot oil, then the Lexol. The compound may be a little thinner than the oil, that's why I said to start there. I don't know the Bickmore products that well so Pete will have to give you the info on that.

Art

Art,

You asked me once why I ask so many questions. I've taught myself how to work with leather, and have used the Internet to answer the hundreds of questions that pop into my head. Often I come across someone asking a question related to what I'm doing. By following that thread of questioning I give myself a more comprehensive understanding of what I'm doing, not just of the immediate task at hand. I would imagine that years ago one would have had to apprentice for a considerable amount of time or devote a few years of formal study to gradually learn something so significant and useful as what you and Pete have taught me about evening out the natural color of veg tan.

As always, each question and answer leads to more questions that I just can't help myself from asking:

I'm curious to know why you suggest I start with the Neatsfoot compound first, then the pure, then the 4-way. I'm curious, because I want to know the differences among the three in a practical way so later on I can utilize these oils and conditioners in flexible ways.

(I just went back and read your post. You suggest using the compound first because it is thinner. My thinking, here, then, is that if the compound is thinner the application will not be too dark and any mistakes will be easily covered up with a thicker combination of either the pure NF or the 4 Way. Is the British Tan definitely the way to go? What about light brown? I'm buying from Siegels and have to hit the free shipping amount. I was thinking of getting both the british tan and the light brown)

Again, thanks so much for your help,

Ed

Edited April 5, 2007 by esantoro

[esantoro]

Hi Ed,

Don't know of a way without dye getting involved somewhere in the process. If you have sun damage or just a little color then you can cut it from the side and use it for something else. I only get 2/3 to 3/4 use from a side and the rest is scrap. The scrap gets used for small projects and the Scouts, you can make a lot of cell phone cases or rounders or barettes from scrap, and knife sheaths are another item. If you can incorporate the color difference into your finished product the "different" look may be appealing to a customer.

If you want to level the color using a little dye, mix dye with neatsfoot oil or neatsfoot oil compound or saddle oil from a reputable place (don't buy bargain anything when dyeing or oiling, especially the NF compound), even lexol conditioner can be used. For really dramatic sun damage, you won't be able to make it go away with just a little dye. I am a fan of Pecards leather dressing which evens things out somewhat, but does darken a little bit, but you will have to go a lot darker for sun damage.

Whatever you do, try it on a small piece of leather first.

Art

Hoe do Tandy dyes and oils compare? Are they good enough to use, or should I stay with Fiebings and Lexol?

Ed

[pete]

I like Feibing's because I know what I'm getting each time. I like British Tan because I can make it weak or strong but still get the reddish/russet color that I want for a base leather. If I want an old, classic color I use chocolate but not too much.

I NEVER use neats compound-NEVER I use pure neat's and put on 2-3 ight coats and let them dry a few hours.

[esantoro]

I like Feibing's because I know what I'm getting each time. I like British Tan because I can make it weak or strong but still get the reddish/russet color that I want for a base leather. If I want an old, classic color I use chocolate but not too much.

I NEVER use neats compound-NEVER I use pure neat's and put on 2-3 ight coats and let them dry a few hours.

Thanks, Pete. I also like the reddish/russet color. I'm going to go experiment on scrap right now with the pure NF and dark brown tandy dye which I have on hand. Thanks so much for this quick lesson on fix-up dyeing. I will be getting some of the British Tan and also some of the lt. brown, as I can now se that dyeing is something i'll have to get more involved with.

Now, if I were into dyeing for the sake of coloring and not just fixing up uneven color, I would use the dye straight out of the bottle, unless I wanted to lighten the color, correct? Should I stay away altogether from the oil-based dyes, which are advertised as "new and improved?

Ed

[pete]

when I dye an entire piece I ALWAYS mix it with Bick#4. The beauty of it is that it puts the dye on evenly with no streaking even if you squirt it all over or squirt a blob in the center! Just put it on and rub it in.You won't believe the finish that you get in seconds. It feels as though you have burnished the entire piece but it is soft and supple and QUITE waterproof. DON'T USE NEATLAC OR LACQUER UNDER IT. You don't need to.

I use British Tan for the color. I ike it better than lt brown because the brown's tend to leave a piece looking a little "muddy" The B.T. gives it a warm rich glow like we are use to seeing in old, fine, saddles.

Again- try it out on scrap. You will find "your" signature color.

pete

[Art]

Hi Ed,

I neatsfoot oil compound can be just about anything with some but not necessarily any neat (cow) in it. This is where quality counts. I have had good luck with the compound from dyo and their and fiebings dyes. I have also used pure neatsfoot from Fiebing and Tandy (pre 1998) and found they worked well with Fiebings dyes. I spray the compound mix which works very well for me, I have sprayed the pure NF and dye but didn't like the control as much. I could do some experimentation and start using the pure, but I like the compound (dyo). Dye and oil together is not an everyday thing for me, I am more apt to spray a dye and then oil separately. I also dip dye for small items or ones I can't get spray coverage on.

Almost everything in finishing is a search for some look or process you like. You have to try everything on scrap until you find something that works for you, don't experiment on some project that will bother you if it turns south. I play around a bit with things, but have tested methods that I go back to when doing real work. Holsters and Sheaths get dipped, Belts get sprayed, deglaze, dye, oil or finish all separately. Everything works, you just have to find what you like and what the customer will like.

Fiebing makes excellent products that are consistant. Many companies repackage (or have someone else repackage) product made by Fiebing, some with names we all know. This goes on all over this business and many others. You can sucessfully use dyes and finishes from different manufacturers, just don't mix water and oil.

Art

Art,

You asked me once why I ask so many questions. I've taught myself how to work with leather, and have used the Internet to answer the hundreds of questions that pop into my head. Often I come across someone asking a question related to what I'm doing. By following that thread of questioning I give myself a more comprehensive understanding of what I'm doing, not just of the immediate task at hand. I would imagine that years ago one would have had to apprentice for a considerable amount of time or devote a few years of formal study to gradually learn something so significant and useful as what you and Pete have taught me about evening out the natural color of veg tan.

As always, each question and answer leads to more questions that I just can't help myself from asking:

I'm curious to know why you suggest I start with the Neatsfoot compound first, then the pure, then the 4-way. I'm curious, because I want to know the differences among the three in a practical way so later on I can utilize these oils and conditioners in flexible ways.

(I just went back and read your post. You suggest using the compound first because it is thinner. My thinking, here, then, is that if the compound is thinner the application will not be too dark and any mistakes will be easily covered up with a thicker combination of either the pure NF or the 4 Way. Is the British Tan definitely the way to go? What about light brown? I'm buying from Siegels and have to hit the free shipping amount. I was thinking of getting both the british tan and the light brown)

Again, thanks so much for your help,

Ed

[esantoro]

when I dye an entire piece I ALWAYS mix it with Bick#4. The beauty of it is that it puts the dye on evenly with no streaking even if you squirt it all over or squirt a blob in the center! Just put it on and rub it in.You won't believe the finish that you get in seconds. It feels as though you have burnished the entire piece but it is soft and supple and QUITE waterproof. DON'T USE NEATLAC OR LACQUER UNDER IT. You don't need to.

I use British Tan for the color. I ike it better than lt brown because the brown's tend to leave a piece looking a little "muddy" The B.T. gives it a warm rich glow like we are use to seeing in old, fine, saddles.

Again- try it out on scrap. You will find "your" signature color.

pete

Early results.

I've tried a bit of dye with Fiebings 4way and a bit of die with NF pure. The dye mixes completely with the 4way. Not so with the pure NF.

Conclusion: 4way over pure NF.

Next round: I'll try the Lexol if Ferdco ever sends it to me. But I have a feeling that I will be going with Pete's nod to the Bick 4. It just may be quite different from the other conditioners. But who knows. Maybe it's the dye. All I had on hand was Tandy dark brown all-in-one dye. I'll be ordering the feibings British tan from Siegels soon.

Ed

[esantoro]

Early results.

I've tried a bit of dye with Fiebings 4way and a bit of die with NF pure. The dye mixes completely with the 4way. Not so with the pure NF.

Conclusion: 4way over pure NF.

Next round: I'll try the Lexol if Ferdco ever sends it to me. But I have a feeling that I will be going with Pete's nod to the Bick 4. It just may be quite different from the other conditioners. But who knows. Maybe it's the dye. All I had on hand was Tandy dark brown all-in-one dye. I'll be ordering the feibings British tan from Siegels soon.

Ed

I've ordered the british tan from Siegels.

I've noticed one thing about the Fiebings 4way. It darkens up the leather a bit, which I love. Now I want to try the Lexol to see if there is a difference. I'm beginning to see that maybe Pete's idea of mixing in the British tan is brilliant and will try it soon. Right now, I'm just doing multiple coats of the 4way.

Ed

[Art]

heat it and if you need to add a little mineral oil to the pure NF

Art

Early results.

I've tried a bit of dye with Fiebings 4way and a bit of die with NF pure. The dye mixes completely with the 4way. Not so with the pure NF.

Conclusion: 4way over pure NF.

Next round: I'll try the Lexol if Ferdco ever sends it to me. But I have a feeling that I will be going with Pete's nod to the Bick 4. It just may be quite different from the other conditioners. But who knows. Maybe it's the dye. All I had on hand was Tandy dark brown all-in-one dye. I'll be ordering the feibings British tan from Siegels soon.

Ed

[esantoro]

heat it and if you need to add a little mineral oil to the pure NF

Art

Would I also get darker coloring if I heat the conditioner and use it without any dye?

Ed