pictures of my workspace

[esantoro]

Some day soon, I will have to upload pictures of my workspace. I'm quite proud of doing so much with so little space.

The drawback, however, is that I don't quite have the storage space for quantities of sides which I have to buy when prices are too low to pass up (Siegel's last ridiculously awesome sale, for example).

My problem is that some of the leather is being darkened unevenly by indoor lighting and sometimes I have to use leather from a different side for the flap on my briefcases. Either way, I need to be able to even out the natural coloring of the veg tanned leather. So far, I've been oiling the lighter areas more heavily. Today as I was casing a handle, I got the idea of rubbing the entire flap down with warm water to even out and darken the color. Do any of you have other suggestions for evening out the color. I'd like to stay away from dyes.

Thanks,

Ed

[pete]

Here is what you do my friend.

Get a bottle of BICK #4 (leather conditioner) and a bottle of Feibing's british tan dye(not oil dye) and put a few drops of the dye into a few tablespoons of the conditioner. Play with the amounts. I take a soda straw for all of my measuring and dip it in about 1/2" each time.

Stir it around. practice on a piece of oiled scrap until you have the color you like.

THEN!!!! put it on a sponge, sheep scrap, whatever you want. YOU CAN EVEN POUR THE STUFF RIGHT ONTO THE CENTER OF THE LEATHER AND IT WON'T SPOT WHERE YOU PUT IT!!!!!!

Rub it in- the leather will darken the more you use but the color will be even.

Pour water on the thing and come back the next day. It won't spot!!!!!!

My friend Bo Riddel (bootmaker to the Nashville stars) works now at Springfiled leather and does everything but brush his teeth with Bick #4 according to him. This is something that he showed me last time and I threw out my neatlac and RTC. I don't use ANY lacquer anymore. Bick's seals the leather like neatlac does and you can antique over it. It conditions AND let's it breath unlike lacquer.

Now I tool, bick+dye then antique. Makes the antique go on even and the finish that you get from the bick is incredible!

Try it

pete

[Art]

Hi Ed,

Don't know of a way without dye getting involved somewhere in the process. If you have sun damage or just a little color then you can cut it from the side and use it for something else. I only get 2/3 to 3/4 use from a side and the rest is scrap. The scrap gets used for small projects and the Scouts, you can make a lot of cell phone cases or rounders or barettes from scrap, and knife sheaths are another item. If you can incorporate the color difference into your finished product the "different" look may be appealing to a customer.

If you want to level the color using a little dye, mix dye with neatsfoot oil or neatsfoot oil compound or saddle oil from a reputable place (don't buy bargain anything when dyeing or oiling, especially the NF compound), even lexol conditioner can be used. For really dramatic sun damage, you won't be able to make it go away with just a little dye. I am a fan of Pecards leather dressing which evens things out somewhat, but does darken a little bit, but you will have to go a lot darker for sun damage.

Whatever you do, try it on a small piece of leather first.

Art

Some day soon, I will have to upload pictures of my workspace. I'm quite proud of doing so much with so little space.

The drawback, however, is that I don't quite have the storage space for quantities of sides which I have to buy when prices are too low to pass up (Siegel's last ridiculously awesome sale, for example).

My problem is that some of the leather is being darkened unevenly by indoor lighting and sometimes I have to use leather from a different side for the flap on my briefcases. Either way, I need to be able to even out the natural coloring of the veg tanned leather. So far, I've been oiling the lighter areas more heavily. Today as I was casing a handle, I got the idea of rubbing the entire flap down with warm water to even out and darken the color. Do any of you have other suggestions for evening out the color. I'd like to stay away from dyes.

Thanks,

Ed

[esantoro]

Hi Ed,

Don't know of a way without dye getting involved somewhere in the process. If you have sun damage or just a little color then you can cut it from the side and use it for something else. I only get 2/3 to 3/4 use from a side and the rest is scrap. The scrap gets used for small projects and the Scouts, you can make a lot of cell phone cases or rounders or barettes from scrap, and knife sheaths are another item. If you can incorporate the color difference into your finished product the "different" look may be appealing to a customer.

If you want to level the color using a little dye, mix dye with neatsfoot oil or neatsfoot oil compound or saddle oil from a reputable place (don't buy bargain anything when dyeing or oiling, especially the NF compound), even lexol conditioner can be used. For really dramatic sun damage, you won't be able to make it go away with just a little dye. I am a fan of Pecards leather dressing which evens things out somewhat, but does darken a little bit, but you will have to go a lot darker for sun damage.

Whatever you do, try it on a small piece of leather first.

Art

Thanks for your replies.

I'm really trying hard to use as much of the leather I can. Many imperfections I don't mind, such as scars, brands, and some insect bits. The cleanest pieces I need are for the flap (16" x 13") and the front face (16" x 12"). The more imperfect pieces I use are used as the center divider, the back, and straps.

I'm going to try the dye.

I'd like to use what I have on hand.

I've got Tandy Neatsfoot compound

Fiebings pure neatsfoot

Lexol 4-way conditioner

Fiebings 4-way conditioner

Art and Pete, do you guys think that I can use either the Lexol or Fiebings 4-Way instead of the Bick 4? Are they all pretty much the same?

I'm definitely going to get hold of some some British Tan dye. All I have is dark brown and mahogany, which i think will be too dark. Even if the briefcase flap does get a tad darker than the rest of the briefcase, I think the look will be quite nice.

Thanks so much for your help.

Ed

[Patrice]

What is Bick #4 and where i can find it?

Keep in mind that i'm living in montréal, Canada. I cannot have acces to every product.

Thank you!

[Art]

Hi Ed,

You are going to have to test, I would start with the neatsfoot compound, then the neatsfoot oil, then the Lexol. The compound may be a little thinner than the oil, that's why I said to start there. I don't know the Bickmore products that well so Pete will have to give you the info on that.

Art

Thanks for your replies.

I'm really trying hard to use as much of the leather I can. Many imperfections I don't mind, such as scars, brands, and some insect bits. The cleanest pieces I need are for the flap (16" x 13") and the front face (16" x 12"). The more imperfect pieces I use are used as the center divider, the back, and straps.

I'm going to try the dye.

I'd like to use what I have on hand.

I've got Tandy Neatsfoot compound

Fiebings pure neatsfoot

Lexol 4-way conditioner

Fiebings 4-way conditioner

Art and Pete, do you guys think that I can use either the Lexol or Fiebings 4-Way instead of the Bick 4? Are they all pretty much the same?

I'm definitely going to get hold of some some British Tan dye. All I have is dark brown and mahogany, which i think will be too dark. Even if the briefcase flap does get a tad darker than the rest of the briefcase, I think the look will be quite nice.

Thanks so much for your help.

Ed

[Art]

Hi Patrice,

Go on the Bickmore website

http://www.bickmore.com

and look for dealers. If you have a Weaver account, they handle #4 also.

Art

What is Bick #4 and where i can find it?

Keep in mind that i'm living in montréal, Canada. I cannot have acces to every product.

Thank you!

[Patrice]

Hi Patrice,

Go on the Bickmore website

http://www.bickmore.com

and look for dealers. If you have a Weaver account, they handle #4 also.

Art

Thank you ART! But, what is a Weaver account?

[Art]

Hi Patrice,

Weaver is a leather, tools, machines, products wholesaler in Ohio. You need to have an account with them, a business license or tax number will suffice. They try to deal with those in the business. They also manufacture their own line of tack etc. that the wholesale to tack/horsey establishments. For them two different businesses and two separate accounts.

Art

Thank you ART! But, what is a Weaver account?

[pete]

Honestly- I don't know if anything works like Bick. All I know is that I can dye a piece from the corner with a glob and drag the dye across , plop it in the middle or use a squeeze bottle pre made with the color I like and just squirt it and rub it in and it dyes evenly. You can even wipe it across instead of in a circular motion and it doesn't streak.

I know that I sound like a commercial for Bick's#4 and Springfield leather but I don't want my dye/coloring/antique job to mess up all the tooling time that I put into it.

pete

[esantoro]

Hi Ed,

You are going to have to test, I would start with the neatsfoot compound, then the neatsfoot oil, then the Lexol. The compound may be a little thinner than the oil, that's why I said to start there. I don't know the Bickmore products that well so Pete will have to give you the info on that.

Art

Art,

You asked me once why I ask so many questions. I've taught myself how to work with leather, and have used the Internet to answer the hundreds of questions that pop into my head. Often I come across someone asking a question related to what I'm doing. By following that thread of questioning I give myself a more comprehensive understanding of what I'm doing, not just of the immediate task at hand. I would imagine that years ago one would have had to apprentice for a considerable amount of time or devote a few years of formal study to gradually learn something so significant and useful as what you and Pete have taught me about evening out the natural color of veg tan.

As always, each question and answer leads to more questions that I just can't help myself from asking:

I'm curious to know why you suggest I start with the Neatsfoot compound first, then the pure, then the 4-way. I'm curious, because I want to know the differences among the three in a practical way so later on I can utilize these oils and conditioners in flexible ways.

(I just went back and read your post. You suggest using the compound first because it is thinner. My thinking, here, then, is that if the compound is thinner the application will not be too dark and any mistakes will be easily covered up with a thicker combination of either the pure NF or the 4 Way. Is the British Tan definitely the way to go? What about light brown? I'm buying from Siegels and have to hit the free shipping amount. I was thinking of getting both the british tan and the light brown)

Again, thanks so much for your help,

Ed

Edited April 5, 2007 by esantoro

[esantoro]

Hi Ed,

Don't know of a way without dye getting involved somewhere in the process. If you have sun damage or just a little color then you can cut it from the side and use it for something else. I only get 2/3 to 3/4 use from a side and the rest is scrap. The scrap gets used for small projects and the Scouts, you can make a lot of cell phone cases or rounders or barettes from scrap, and knife sheaths are another item. If you can incorporate the color difference into your finished product the "different" look may be appealing to a customer.

If you want to level the color using a little dye, mix dye with neatsfoot oil or neatsfoot oil compound or saddle oil from a reputable place (don't buy bargain anything when dyeing or oiling, especially the NF compound), even lexol conditioner can be used. For really dramatic sun damage, you won't be able to make it go away with just a little dye. I am a fan of Pecards leather dressing which evens things out somewhat, but does darken a little bit, but you will have to go a lot darker for sun damage.

Whatever you do, try it on a small piece of leather first.

Art

Hoe do Tandy dyes and oils compare? Are they good enough to use, or should I stay with Fiebings and Lexol?

Ed

[pete]

I like Feibing's because I know what I'm getting each time. I like British Tan because I can make it weak or strong but still get the reddish/russet color that I want for a base leather. If I want an old, classic color I use chocolate but not too much.

I NEVER use neats compound-NEVER I use pure neat's and put on 2-3 ight coats and let them dry a few hours.

[esantoro]

I like Feibing's because I know what I'm getting each time. I like British Tan because I can make it weak or strong but still get the reddish/russet color that I want for a base leather. If I want an old, classic color I use chocolate but not too much.

I NEVER use neats compound-NEVER I use pure neat's and put on 2-3 ight coats and let them dry a few hours.

Thanks, Pete. I also like the reddish/russet color. I'm going to go experiment on scrap right now with the pure NF and dark brown tandy dye which I have on hand. Thanks so much for this quick lesson on fix-up dyeing. I will be getting some of the British Tan and also some of the lt. brown, as I can now se that dyeing is something i'll have to get more involved with.

Now, if I were into dyeing for the sake of coloring and not just fixing up uneven color, I would use the dye straight out of the bottle, unless I wanted to lighten the color, correct? Should I stay away altogether from the oil-based dyes, which are advertised as "new and improved?

Ed

[pete]

when I dye an entire piece I ALWAYS mix it with Bick#4. The beauty of it is that it puts the dye on evenly with no streaking even if you squirt it all over or squirt a blob in the center! Just put it on and rub it in.You won't believe the finish that you get in seconds. It feels as though you have burnished the entire piece but it is soft and supple and QUITE waterproof. DON'T USE NEATLAC OR LACQUER UNDER IT. You don't need to.

I use British Tan for the color. I ike it better than lt brown because the brown's tend to leave a piece looking a little "muddy" The B.T. gives it a warm rich glow like we are use to seeing in old, fine, saddles.

Again- try it out on scrap. You will find "your" signature color.

pete

[Art]

Hi Ed,

I neatsfoot oil compound can be just about anything with some but not necessarily any neat (cow) in it. This is where quality counts. I have had good luck with the compound from dyo and their and fiebings dyes. I have also used pure neatsfoot from Fiebing and Tandy (pre 1998) and found they worked well with Fiebings dyes. I spray the compound mix which works very well for me, I have sprayed the pure NF and dye but didn't like the control as much. I could do some experimentation and start using the pure, but I like the compound (dyo). Dye and oil together is not an everyday thing for me, I am more apt to spray a dye and then oil separately. I also dip dye for small items or ones I can't get spray coverage on.

Almost everything in finishing is a search for some look or process you like. You have to try everything on scrap until you find something that works for you, don't experiment on some project that will bother you if it turns south. I play around a bit with things, but have tested methods that I go back to when doing real work. Holsters and Sheaths get dipped, Belts get sprayed, deglaze, dye, oil or finish all separately. Everything works, you just have to find what you like and what the customer will like.

Fiebing makes excellent products that are consistant. Many companies repackage (or have someone else repackage) product made by Fiebing, some with names we all know. This goes on all over this business and many others. You can sucessfully use dyes and finishes from different manufacturers, just don't mix water and oil.

Art

Art,

You asked me once why I ask so many questions. I've taught myself how to work with leather, and have used the Internet to answer the hundreds of questions that pop into my head. Often I come across someone asking a question related to what I'm doing. By following that thread of questioning I give myself a more comprehensive understanding of what I'm doing, not just of the immediate task at hand. I would imagine that years ago one would have had to apprentice for a considerable amount of time or devote a few years of formal study to gradually learn something so significant and useful as what you and Pete have taught me about evening out the natural color of veg tan.

As always, each question and answer leads to more questions that I just can't help myself from asking:

I'm curious to know why you suggest I start with the Neatsfoot compound first, then the pure, then the 4-way. I'm curious, because I want to know the differences among the three in a practical way so later on I can utilize these oils and conditioners in flexible ways.

(I just went back and read your post. You suggest using the compound first because it is thinner. My thinking, here, then, is that if the compound is thinner the application will not be too dark and any mistakes will be easily covered up with a thicker combination of either the pure NF or the 4 Way. Is the British Tan definitely the way to go? What about light brown? I'm buying from Siegels and have to hit the free shipping amount. I was thinking of getting both the british tan and the light brown)

Again, thanks so much for your help,

Ed

[esantoro]

when I dye an entire piece I ALWAYS mix it with Bick#4. The beauty of it is that it puts the dye on evenly with no streaking even if you squirt it all over or squirt a blob in the center! Just put it on and rub it in.You won't believe the finish that you get in seconds. It feels as though you have burnished the entire piece but it is soft and supple and QUITE waterproof. DON'T USE NEATLAC OR LACQUER UNDER IT. You don't need to.

I use British Tan for the color. I ike it better than lt brown because the brown's tend to leave a piece looking a little "muddy" The B.T. gives it a warm rich glow like we are use to seeing in old, fine, saddles.

Again- try it out on scrap. You will find "your" signature color.

pete

Early results.

I've tried a bit of dye with Fiebings 4way and a bit of die with NF pure. The dye mixes completely with the 4way. Not so with the pure NF.

Conclusion: 4way over pure NF.

Next round: I'll try the Lexol if Ferdco ever sends it to me. But I have a feeling that I will be going with Pete's nod to the Bick 4. It just may be quite different from the other conditioners. But who knows. Maybe it's the dye. All I had on hand was Tandy dark brown all-in-one dye. I'll be ordering the feibings British tan from Siegels soon.

Ed

[esantoro]

Early results.

I've tried a bit of dye with Fiebings 4way and a bit of die with NF pure. The dye mixes completely with the 4way. Not so with the pure NF.

Conclusion: 4way over pure NF.

Next round: I'll try the Lexol if Ferdco ever sends it to me. But I have a feeling that I will be going with Pete's nod to the Bick 4. It just may be quite different from the other conditioners. But who knows. Maybe it's the dye. All I had on hand was Tandy dark brown all-in-one dye. I'll be ordering the feibings British tan from Siegels soon.

Ed

I've ordered the british tan from Siegels.

I've noticed one thing about the Fiebings 4way. It darkens up the leather a bit, which I love. Now I want to try the Lexol to see if there is a difference. I'm beginning to see that maybe Pete's idea of mixing in the British tan is brilliant and will try it soon. Right now, I'm just doing multiple coats of the 4way.

Ed

[Art]

heat it and if you need to add a little mineral oil to the pure NF

Art

Early results.

I've tried a bit of dye with Fiebings 4way and a bit of die with NF pure. The dye mixes completely with the 4way. Not so with the pure NF.

Conclusion: 4way over pure NF.

Next round: I'll try the Lexol if Ferdco ever sends it to me. But I have a feeling that I will be going with Pete's nod to the Bick 4. It just may be quite different from the other conditioners. But who knows. Maybe it's the dye. All I had on hand was Tandy dark brown all-in-one dye. I'll be ordering the feibings British tan from Siegels soon.

Ed

[esantoro]

heat it and if you need to add a little mineral oil to the pure NF

Art

Would I also get darker coloring if I heat the conditioner and use it without any dye?

Ed

[Art]

Heat it to just warm not hot. The darkness will be about the same. You really have to try these things as it is different for everyone.

Art

Would I also get darker coloring if I heat the conditioner and use it without any dye?

Ed

[abn]

Now I want to try the Lexol to see if there is a difference. I'm beginning to see that maybe Pete's idea of mixing in the British tan is brilliant and will try it soon.

Ed, I'm very interested in the results of your testing, so please continue to share your observations. Thanks for starting this topic.

-Alex

[esantoro]

Early results.

I've tried a bit of dye with Fiebings 4way and a bit of die with NF pure. The dye mixes completely with the 4way. Not so with the pure NF.

Conclusion: 4way over pure NF.

Next round: I'll try the Lexol if Ferdco ever sends it to me. But I have a feeling that I will be going with Pete's nod to the Bick 4. It just may be quite different from the other conditioners. But who knows. Maybe it's the dye. All I had on hand was Tandy dark brown all-in-one dye. I'll be ordering the feibings British tan from Siegels soon.

Ed

I just got some Bick 4 today and did a little emperiment.

I did one application of Bick 4 , one of Fiebings 4 Way, and one of Fiebings' neatsfoot oil.

The neatsfoot darkened the leather the most. The Bick 4 darkened ( a very light shade) a tad bit more than the 4 Way did, even though the Bick 4 bottle reads that it will not darken leather.

I have uploaded an annoted jpeg to illustrate. For those of you not familiar with Bick 4, it's much thicker and creamier than either the 4Way or Lexol.

Ed

[esantoro]

Some day soon, I will have to upload pictures of my workspace. I'm quite proud of doing so much with so little space.

The drawback, however, is that I don't quite have the storage space for quantities of sides which I have to buy when prices are too low to pass up (Siegel's last ridiculously awesome sale, for example).

My problem is that some of the leather is being darkened unevenly by indoor lighting and sometimes I have to use leather from a different side for the flap on my briefcases. Either way, I need to be able to even out the natural coloring of the veg tanned leather. So far, I've been oiling the lighter areas more heavily. Today as I was casing a handle, I got the idea of rubbing the entire flap down with warm water to even out and darken the color. Do any of you have other suggestions for evening out the color. I'd like to stay away from dyes.

Thanks,

Ed

Here's a picture of the bag I'm working on that has presented this darkening issue.

Ed

[whinewine]

Ed: part of the problem is that all veg-tan WILL darken in light- that's just the way it goes. Other than keeping your leather in a light- tight area (like a darkroom), there is not much you can do about it unless you dye very, very dark. This is something you need to explain to your customers- that veg-tan WILL darken over time, and stress the 'CHARACTER' of this 'MELLOWING' of 'FINE LEATHERS', much like the aging of 'A FINE WINE'... The client needs to understand that this will occur over time & there is nothing that will stop it entirely. You don't want the client coming back a year from now & complaining that you sold him a defective case ...'cause the leather darkened all by itself'...

Here is a suggestion: brace the flap open & expose the part underneath to sufficiently strong light (like sunlight) to darken it to the extent the flap itself is dark. The straps, which appear lighter, can be LIGHTLY masked with painters tape, so they stay lighter in contrast. I have done this on occasion, but only where the contrast was so severe that it was necessary.