wanting to carve an oakleaf pattern

[twostepct]

I'm not sure if this should be in carving or here, but we'll start here. I am wanting to carve an oakleaf pattern into a ranger belt I am planning. When you dye the background areas (in order to achieve a contrast) do ya'll first use the backgrounder tool after beveling your cuts, or do you just bevel it? Thanks! Tyson

[bruce johnson]

TwoStep,

No right or wrong, some people don't background at all, others really mash down. Here's what I do. I background after beveling and prefer a checkered backgrounder. Something along the lines of the Tandy 104 usually. I also have a set of slightly finer checkered backgrounders. I am not a fan of bargrounders, but some guys run them well. I background when the leather is fairly dry, and sometimes will tool something and thgen background 12-18 hours later. If the leather is still pretty damp and moldable, the backgrounders can spread the backgrounding too much and close up the beveling. You rebevel and lose some of the backgrounding, and you are in a loop.

Once the piece is totally dry, then I background dye.

Bruce Johnson

[twostepct]

Ok, thank you for the tip. I am pretty new to carving in general, and have just been using the normal antique over the background. While it is darker, it is not like what I am trying to achieve. I wonder, though, if it would be easier to background "after" you dye the background? It seems it would be so you don't have to worry about being sure to get the dye in every little 'dot' left from the backgrounder. Opinions? Tyson

TwoStep,

No right or wrong, some people don't background at all, others really mash down. Here's what I do. I background after beveling and prefer a checkered backgrounder. Something along the lines of the Tandy 104 usually. I also have a set of slightly finer checkered backgrounders. I am not a fan of bargrounders, but some guys run them well. I background when the leather is fairly dry, and sometimes will tool something and thgen background 12-18 hours later. If the leather is still pretty damp and moldable, the backgrounders can spread the backgrounding too much and close up the beveling. You rebevel and lose some of the backgrounding, and you are in a loop.

Once the piece is totally dry, then I background dye.

Bruce Johnson

[Clay]

Ok, thank you for the tip. I am pretty new to carving in general, and have just been using the normal antique over the background. While it is darker, it is not like what I am trying to achieve. I wonder, though, if it would be easier to background "after" you dye the background? It seems it would be so you don't have to worry about being sure to get the dye in every little 'dot' left from the backgrounder. Opinions? Tyson

Tyson,

In my opinion it would not be a good idea to background after you dye. Two reasons. If you let the leather dry before dying then you can not really stamp it after. The impressions would be there bu they wont be very deep. If you wet it after dying you will cary the dye to areas that you do not want it on.

Second if you leave the leather wet and dye it might seep to areas that you do not want to be dyed.

When I dye the background I do it after all of the molding, carving, stamping, tooling, finnish cuts, or any other manipulations of the actual leather. I try to let the item dry over night but sometimes I am in a hurry so I hit it with a heat gun ( hair dryer) and then let it finish drying for an hour or so. Then when I am ready to dye the background I use the smallest brush I can and dip it into the dye. I brush off the excess and start in the middle of the area of the background I am dying. The leather will suck up the dye quick so I don't brush the leather but just kind of dab it and let the leather and dye do their own thing. A very little amount of dye will cover a larger area than you might think. I would suggest trying it on some scrap untill you get a handle on it. Good luck and post the pictures when you are done.

Clay M.

[David Genadek]

Usually the question is if you should bevel the areas where you back ground. Often you just use the background tool as a beveler to speed things up. However if your going to inlay dye it I take the time to bevel becouse the compressed fibers acts as a barrier for the dye. You don't want to dye the leather first because the compresion of the tool can stretch the fibers and expose areas that did not get good dye penatration and then you have to go back and redye it.

A little practice and you will get the hang of it. You will make mistakes though and that is why they say you can always dye it black.

I was really glad to hear that you are trying to move beyond antique. Growing up I was taught that only beginners used antique and if someone did antique they wouldn't place at a show but now it is all the rage.

I'm not saying there isn't a place for it but I am glad you are reaching beyond it.

David Genadek

[ClayB]

quote name='David Genadek' date='Apr 9 2007, 09:54 PM' post='3749']

Usually the question is if you should bevel the areas where you back ground. Often you just use the background tool as a beveler to speed things up.

I had heard of people not beveling the background areas before, just using the backgrounder. I had never tried it but since it's acting a lot like January outside today with all the snow coming down, I decided to give it a try. I carved a couple oak leaves, one my normal way and one without beveling the background area. To me, the one without beveling looks really flat, almost like the stuff done with some sort of pressed in or rolled on design. It also seemed like backgrounding took more time to do trying to keep the tool up next to the cut, but not beveled line. Maybe there's some tricks to that technique? I could see a combo tool (beveler with background texture) working well if you were trying for more speed in your carving.

without beveling

with beveling (and lifting)

Edited April 10, 2007 by ClayB

[charley]

Clay -- I understand the "no-beveling before background" may require more time for the background (e.g., tool placement up to the swivel cut is more important). I've also found that (especially on thicker leather) it's really hard to get an "even" background unless I bevel and/or mat first. Lately, I've been matting the whole background area followed by a light backgrounding, and for me it comes out most smooth/even.

How much of the difference between your examples is due to one is lifted and the other not? (Is that a big deal)?

[ClayB]

Clay -- I understand the "no-beveling before background" may require more time for the background (e.g., tool placement up to the swivel cut is more important). I've also found that (especially on thicker leather) it's really hard to get an "even" background unless I bevel and/or mat first. Lately, I've been matting the whole background area followed by a light backgrounding, and for me it comes out most smooth/even.

How much of the difference between your examples is due to one is lifted and the other not? (Is that a big deal)?

Good point Charley. I did happen to take a picture before lifting. I should have posted that picture instead so here it is.

Lifting does make a lot of difference in the apperance of depth. I tried to background just as deeply in both examples, in fact I tried to go over the un-beveled one to see if I could get more depth. It just didn't work for me. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I think I bevel deeper than I cut?

[Regis]

ClayB,

That is a convincing illustration. I've taken that short-cut some and later wondered why a figure didn't look as crisp as I thought it should. I just didn't put 2 & 2 together. Now, I know why!

Thank you,

Regis

without beveling

with beveling (and lifting)

[David Genadek]

I don't think there is any question that you get a better job if you bevel but you can get close if you really lean the back ground tool and use it as a beveler. It is a pay the bills technique not a do the finest work you can technique. An average joe wouldn't be able to tell the differance but you wouldn't want to do it if you were entering a piece in a competition. If your going to inlay dye you are way better off to bevel because it really allows you to go fast on the dying. If it's your hobby then who cares sit back and enjoy it all.

David Genadek

[twostepct]

WOW.. It's been awhile since I've looked at this thread. I can't believe the difference between the two methods once they are put side by side. Now, what is lifting?

[ClayB]

Lifting is kind of like a special effect to add depth your carivng when used in certain areas like flower petels and the inside curves on leaves. There are several tools you can use to achieve the effect, from Craftool undercut bevelers to Pro Petal tools. What you are doing with the tool is cutting under the leather and lifting a small area to give a 3-D effect.

Here are a couple pictures that show the Pro Petal tool being used and the effect of added depth it gives to the leaf.

Clay

[Regis]

After I buying a couple pro petals I learned quickly that you have to bevel deeply and leave a thick edge. And, I think you probably need 5 oz. or more in weight to prevent tearing the edge. Also tears if tooo wet!

the other place I found them very helpfull is on ship sails. The lift on back side helps to show sail billowing in the wind.

Regis

Edited April 17, 2007 by Regis