Freaking Out

[abn]

Well, I don't plan on using a dye that requires spraying. (My shop just isn't set up for that.) So either this finish can be applied with a rag or dauber, or I won't be using it.

I'll have to check it out... Thanks to everyone for their initial reviews.

-Alex

[Art]

About spirit dyes going away.

I have noticed that Fiebing's LEATHERCOLORS product is only offered in 4oz sizes. This obviously targets a consumer market like Tandy does. It will take them some time to get a waterbased product to a point that it will satisfy an industrial user (this includes small leather businesses). Offerings now are to enable marketing small quantities to consumers under CA law (and probably other states soon).

Penetration and durability are major concerns with water based dyes and some finishes along with application issues from an industrial perspective. I have found the Tandy One Step colors to be more of a wiping stain than a dye and REALLY not well suited to industrial application, so far, they don't spray well. Coverage is a lot on the dark side of the color specified and very time dependant. I don't have enough of it to try immersion (dipping). Remember that Tandy wants to satisfy a consumer who is more the crafter than the business. Their formulations will definately lean to the retail side; and this may be where the idea of spirit dyes going away came from.

I found the One Step product from Tandy to have really suprising durability compared to other water based finishes which have had very little penetration and little durability. Top coats are a different story and there are some that work well, but they may need a little more time and development too. Right now, it is just easier, more dependable, and predictable to stay with the Pro Oil Dye from Fiebing, it just works.

Right now there are any number of Fiebing distributors who will be happy to ship you quarts to 55 gal drums of product, even to you all in CA. I think all anyone is asking is that you use the product wisely and dispose of it properly.

Art

So, are the spirit dyes expected to go away? Or is this just another option for the folks who live in California?

[abn]

I stopped by Tandy this weekend and got the opportunity to purchase and try out some of the new Eco-Flo dye colors. I must admit, I think they're a step up from the traditional spirit dyes. The water-based formula appears to absorb slower, so there's less propensity to streak, even with the lighter shades like Ranger Tan. I'm told the pigment in these dyes is actually liquid (instead of being suspended in liquid), and as a result, I found very little buffing was required after application. To create different shades, the dyes appear to mix well with each other, with water, or even with Lexol. I found that the actual color on leather is much closer to what's advertised on the bottle than with alcohol-based dyes, which tend to go on much darker. Overall, Eco-Flo dyes appear to be versatile and easy-to-use. I was able to apply with a piece of cloth and get good results, although Tandy literature recommends spraying.

Available colors include Coal Black, Dark Coco Brown, Bison Brown, Java Brown, Timber Brown, Canyon Tan, Ranger Tan, Dark Mahogany, Light Mahogany, Cranberry Red, Scarlett, Evening Blue, Emerald Green, Forest Green, Deep Violet, and Sunshine Yellow.

I also purchased several of the new All-In-One Eco-Flow Stain & Finish bottles, and was favorably impressed with how easy they were to use. Dunk a dauber, smear it on, and wipe it off with a paper towel for an extremely even color and mellow acrylic finish. Tandy claims this stuff is for beginners, but for anyone interested in taking the easy route when dyeing, this is a good option IMO. One more benefit: this product does seem to act somewhat as a highlighter to darken stamped areas with an antique-like paste.

Colors for this product are Midnight Black, Fudge Brown, Acorn Brown, Light Mocha Brown, Prairie Tan, Desert Tan, Cherry Chocolate, Mariner Blue, Grape Purple, Cactus Green, Primrose Red, and Cherry Red.

On a related note, I picked up a pamphlet on the Eco-Flo line, and discovered this product line isn't just dyes -- all environmentally friendly products that Tandy offers are being rebranded as Eco-Flo, including Leather Dyes, Hi-Lite Color Stain, Gel Antiques, All-In-One Stain & Finish, Cova Colors, Satin Shene, Super Shene, Block Out Resist Finish, Carnauba Creme, Gum Tragacanth, Easy-Carve Concentrate, Tanners Bond Contact Cement, and Leather Weld. The back of the pamphlet contains a compatibility chart which shows which dyes and stains work with which finishes.

For anyone who has struggled to get decent results with alcohol dyes (like I have), you might want to check out the new Eco-Flo stuff.

Regards, -Alex

[Jim M]

Got the Tandy July sales flyer today and it has a section of info on the new products. The flyer can be found their website, as well.

[CitizenKate]

I just got mine. I called Tandy in OKC today, and asked them about the colorfastness of the Eco-Flo products. Their answer was: There has been no official word from the chem labs about that property, but we're testing some samples we have recently made.

I went ahead and ordered a few small bottles to try out. The first thing I'm going to try is to color a piece of scrap with it and leave it sitting in a nice, sunny window for a few weeks. That should tell us something...

Kate

[abn]

Thanks, Kate. Let us know how the color holds up in the sun. BTW, I've been using these dyes for a few weeks now, and I have a couple of observations:

1. The colors are not quite as vivid as those of spirit dyes.
   
2. In my experience, it's best to apply these when the leather is completely dry, since wet leather seemed to act as a bit of a resist.
   
3. Although they won't rub off when dry, they are a bit sensitive when wet -- applying a coat of Lexol and wiping off when still wet will remove some color. Same goes for Satin Shene. So you have to be gentle when conditioning and finishing.
   

On a related note, I actually prefer the All-In-One Stain and Finish over the straight leather dye. It goes on easier, provides a bit of antique contrast, and leaves a really nice mellow finish. Plus, the colors are as vivid as spirit dyes. I'm finishing up a couple of projects using All-In-One, and I'll be sure to post some pics soon.

-Alex

[freak]

I just tried two diff colors of the Antique Gels. Ummm, ,,, I don't like them. I don't like them at all. The Tan was Ok at best for me. I did 2 phone cases. Both of them i used the eco flow Ranger Tan. Then on one i used Fiebing"s Antque Tan paste and on the other i used the eco flow Gel Antique Tan. With the Fiebing the over all color changed very little. It did what it should and for the most part darken the tooled part only The Eco Flo on the other hand darkened the case as a whole.

I aslo tried the Eco Flow Mahogany Antique over Ranger Tan. Hoping i would get a lot of lift if i just wiped it on and right off. NO !!! That didn't happen. It is now a nice dark Mahogany.

Now for the plus. The Eco Flow Coal Black dye: it's as nice of a black as i've seen. Anyone that uses the Fiebing Black Oil dye might want to try it. That's what i've always used for black. Two coats and it's freakin black. The same goes for the Eco Flow Coal Black.

[wolvenstien]

no "chalking" of the eco flo black lik ethe pro oil does?

[abn]

W,

I haven't tried the black dye yet, but I used the next darkest dye (Dark Coco Brown), and rub-off was virtually non-existent when dry.

Alex

[whinewine]

I'm working on a sporran that my son wants to be in black. We tried a scrap of eco coal black last night & this morning with 2 coats is was VERY black- and almost NO CROCKING. I ordered a quart & will pick up Saturday. I'm (so far, anyway) impressed but I won't know until I dye the whole sporran to determine how well the dye saturates. BTW, eco coal black is the only eco dye that tandy recommends NOT be sprayed.

[CitizenKate]

I'm still testing the antique/highlighter, still no formal opinion...

The dyes... interesting. I've had some color samples (with no sealer or other finish) sitting in one of my south-facing windows for over a week, where they are getting several hours of direct sunlight almost every day. So far, I don't see any signs of fading. They don't seem to be exhibiting the usual signs of "bleaching" either - wonder if the color is having an effect on that. I took a photo of them before placing them in the windowsill... I'll take another photo in another week or two so we have a reference point to compare, and post them so you all can see.

Kate

[whinewine]

I'm working on a sporran that my son wants to be in black. We tried a scrap of eco coal black last night & this morning with 2 coats is was VERY black- and almost NO CROCKING. I ordered a quart & will pick up Saturday. I'm (so far, anyway) impressed but I won't know until I dye the whole sporran to determine how well the dye saturates. BTW, eco coal black is the only eco dye that tandy recommends NOT be sprayed.

Here are my test results with eco coal black dye:

I dyed a test sporran in eco black over the weekend. I used 2 coats, both sides, using a dauber, and I didn't use any blue or dark brown basecoat like you'd have to do first if using spirit dye. Overall, black coverage is pretty good on the grain side (could use a 3rd coat, but still, pretty decent black coverage), but the flesh side seems to really suck up a lot of dye and the color is more blue & mottled than it is a true black, even after 2 coats.

There IS some crocking (rub-off), but certainly it's a whole lot less than with using spirit dye. Good buffing removes most of it , and hopefully the rest can be sealed appropriately with neatlac or supershene so that it doesn't crock.

Sealing is a must: since it is water-based, even a wet or damp finger will cause the dye to come off on it.

I also tried to spray the eco black to see what would happen (even though NOT recommended by Tandy). I used a preval sprayer. It will spray, but it seems that the amount of pigment in it causes the preval to spit globules of black all over the place (not all the time, but throughout the spray test), rather than give a nice, relatively even coverage. Perhaps an adjustable spray gun would give a better, more even coverage than the preval does.

If anyone has different (or the same) results, I think others would like to hear about your results.

Overall, I'm still pretty well impressed. I just wonder if the black would be as black if one used a dark brown or dark blue basecoat first (either eco or spirit dye) & then applied just one coat of eco black over top???

[whinewine]

Here are my test results with eco coal black dye:

I dyed a test sporran in eco black over the weekend. I used 2 coats, both sides, using a dauber, and I didn't use any blue or dark brown basecoat like you'd have to do first if using spirit dye. Overall, black coverage is pretty good on the grain side (could use a 3rd coat, but still, pretty decent black coverage), but the flesh side seems to really suck up a lot of dye and the color is more blue & mottled than it is a true black, even after 2 coats.

There IS some crocking (rub-off), but certainly it's a whole lot less than with using spirit dye. Good buffing removes most of it , and hopefully the rest can be sealed appropriately with neatlac or supershene so that it doesn't crock.

Sealing is a must: since it is water-based, even a wet or damp finger will cause the dye to come off on it.

I also tried to spray the eco black to see what would happen (even though NOT recommended by Tandy). I used a preval sprayer. It will spray, but it seems that the amount of pigment in it causes the preval to spit globules of black all over the place (not all the time, but throughout the spray test), rather than give a nice, relatively even coverage. Perhaps an adjustable spray gun would give a better, more even coverage than the preval does.

If anyone has different (or the same) results, I think others would like to hear about your results.

Overall, I'm still pretty well impressed. I just wonder if the black would be as black if one used a dark brown or dark blue basecoat first (either eco or spirit dye) & then applied just one coat of eco black over top???

Update:

My son came here last night & dyed his sporran eco black- two nice coats (with a dauber) for good even coverage, and left the backs undyed. This morning I sprayed the backs of each piece with spirit mahogany dye, let dry & used a dauber to apply one coat of eco black. While there is just an ever-so-slight brownish cast, the coverage is significantly more even than with the daubered two coats of black that I used on the flesh sides of mine (I also applied a third daubered coat of eco black to the flesh sides of mine to blacken-up the mottled blue, but the pieces with the sprayed spirit dye + 1 coat eco black with a dauber are much more even than even the 3 heavy coats of eco black).

[Rayban]

I hear that Tandy will be coming out with some bio-degradable leather real soon to go with their eco-friendly dyes.....