Singer 236G131 Post Bed needle won’t pick up tread from Bobbin

[Rogueshoemaking]

My name is Plunkett 

Based outside Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.

I have a Singer 236G131 post bed 

used all my needles including the last one. I know big mistake unfortunately,

and ordered more, the previous needles where Schmitz, and the new needles are Groz-Beckert. For the love of me, I’ve spent the last two days trying to fix something that probably wasn’t broke, but I thought the timing wasn’t right, because I was sewing nearly medium leather last with it, and it was fairly soft Chrome Excel. But due to it not working, I adjusted the needle bar, then I adjusted the bobbin case to make it closer to the needle, by loosening two screws from underneath. Still can’t get this needle to pick up the tread from the boobin, using the servo. It will pick it up when I do it by hand, the first time, and it will continue for five or six stitches , then I press the foot peddle, and no luck, just punches holes. 
I don’t know anything about needles, and wouldn’t know where to cross reference if they are the same. But somethings not right, and it might be the needles. ( gut feeling : no evidence  ) I have attached pictures of the needles. Can anyone give me any advice, or help point me in any way. 

Edited 19 hours ago by Rogueshoemaking

[kgg]

4 hours ago, Rogueshoemaking said:

Can anyone give me any advice, or help point me in any way. 

Your machine according to, The Thread Exchange ( https://www.thethreadexchange.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=needle-systems-singer-236-B-to-391-A ), the Singer Model# 236-G All Classes use needle system 287 Equivalent to 287 H, 16X21, 16X269, 376, CANU 11:60.

The size of the needle will depend on the thread that you are using. Here is a good cross reference of thread to size of needle:

https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

kgg

[AlZilla]

Here's a parts list for a 236W131 that says the needle is a 128x22y. Next to the last page.

My understanding has always been that the Singer machines stayed identical regardless of country of manufacture (W, G, U, etc). Maybe we found an exception?

 

236W131 Parts List.pdf

[Rogueshoemaking]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

Your machine according to, The Thread Exchange ( https://www.thethreadexchange.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=needle-systems-singer-236-B-to-391-A ), the Singer Model# 236-G All Classes use needle system 287 Equivalent to 287 H, 16X21, 16X269, 376, CANU 11:60.

The size of the needle will depend on the thread that you are using. Here is a good cross reference of thread to size of needle:

https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

kgg

Hello Kgg, thanks for the chart. and thanks so much for your help, I’ll order system 287 needles tomorrow, working from 60 tread, maybe size 16, and set it up again to see if I can get it going. 

[Rogueshoemaking]

40 minutes ago, AlZilla said:

Here's a parts list for a 236W131 that says the needle is a 128x22y. Next to the last page.

My understanding has always been that the Singer machines stayed identical regardless of country of manufacture (W, G, U, etc). Maybe we found an exception?

 

236W131 Parts List.pdf 786.26 kB · 1 download

Hello AlZilla

thanks very much for the parts list. For my actual machine. Your a champion.
So my needle size is 128x16y initially using 60 thread, would that be correct. 
thanks very much again, and I’ll get new needles tomorrow morning, and see if I can get it going again. 

[AlZilla]

27 minutes ago, Rogueshoemaking said:

Hello AlZilla

thanks very much for the parts list. For my actual machine. Your a champion.
So my needle size is 128x16y initially using 60 thread, would that be correct. 
thanks very much again, and I’ll get new needles tomorrow morning, and see if I can get it going again. 

All I know is what the parts list says. If you have a worn out needle you can put a micrometer or caliper on, that would be the best course. The page KGG links to above says something conflicting. What would be definitive is if you could find a parts list from Singer specifically for your G machine.

I went through a similar issue sorting out needles for an old machine I have. Conflicting info but the Singer Parts list was correct for me.

[Constabulary]

machines can be set up for different needle systems by adjusting the needle bar height but I would start with the system that the manual states. when you have figured the system make a small sticker that reminds you of the needle system and stick it on the machine somewhere.

beside that needle bars  rise a little bit with the time so maybe it needs a little adjustment of the needle hook timing / adjusting the NB height (most likely lowering a tiny but).

Edited 13 hours ago by Constabulary

[kgg]

@AlZilla , @Rogueshoemaking The Singer 236G136 and the Singer 236W131 are almost identical except:

i) 236G131: letter G shows it was produced in Germany, typically at the Karlsruhe factory. 

ii) 236W131: letter W shows it was produced in the United States at Elizabethport, New Jersey plant.

iii) the Singer 236W131 (U.S. model) uses the 134 (DP×5) system, while the Singer 236G131 (German model) uses the 287 (16×21) system.

A parts manual for the Singer 236G131 can be found at Henderson Sewing http://hensewfiles.com/PDFs/SINGER 236G130.pdf

Using a small size needle with V45 (60) thread you might want to also order some #18 needles for thicker items.

kgg

 

Edited 11 hours ago by kgg

[AlZilla]

@kgg, good find on the G parts list.

[Rogueshoemaking]

10 hours ago, kgg said:

@AlZilla , @Rogueshoemaking The Singer 236G136 and the Singer 236W131 are almost identical except:

i) 236G131: letter G shows it was produced in Germany, typically at the Karlsruhe factory. 

ii) 236W131: letter W shows it was produced in the United States at Elizabethport, New Jersey plant.

iii) the Singer 236W131 (U.S. model) uses the 134 (DP×5) system, while the Singer 236G131 (German model) uses the 287 (16×21) system.

A parts manual for the Singer 236G131 can be found at Henderson Sewing http://hensewfiles.com/PDFs/SINGER 236G130.pdf

Using a small size needle with V45 (60) thread you might want to also order some #18 needles for thicker items.

kgg

 

Hello Kgg.

So now there is two different needle systems. 
so if AlZillas manual says it’s 287 (16x21) System,  from the manual that states 236G131 which is the correct model I have. 
And the US model uses 134 (DPx5)

is there any other way of finding out the correct system, other than the manual. 

I purchased the 287 (16x2) needles from Queensland Sewing Machines PTY, they were very helpful. And their technician told me that the 287 needles are much thinner than the 134 and if my nail bar was designed to hold the 134134 would fit inside and if it wasn’t a 134 wouldn’t fit inside and I would have to use a 287 so I purchased the 287 to give them a go on cross reference needles that I purchased from them before for the singer 236G131 and the needles I have seem to be correct. 
I now believe I’ve messed up the timing on the needle bar, where the elbow that turns the bar is not set right. And maybe have to turn the bobbin case hook to suit.