The best all around machine

[yotebuster1200]

I am fairly new to leather working and have never owned a sewing machine so I am looking for some help on making a decision. I was wondering if their was a sewing machine that really stands out for doing a good job at sewing a large varietys of leather with little to no adjustment and problems. I would like to be able to sew eeverything from chap leather to saddles and saddle tack. I have heard a lot about the toro 3000 and would this be a good machine to use? I am open to all suggestions. Like everyone I like to save money but I also hate to spend money twice. I would rather save up and have a machine that I will enjoy using and will hold up through the years

Thanks Scott

[Art]

Hi Scott,

Let's hear a little bit about what kind of work you do and maybe what you are planning for the future.

Art

I am fairly new to leather working and have never owned a sewing machine so I am looking for some help on making a decision. I was wondering if their was a sewing machine that really stands out for doing a good job at sewing a large varietys of leather with little to no adjustment and problems. I would like to be able to sew eeverything from chap leather to saddles and saddle tack. I have heard a lot about the toro 3000 and would this be a good machine to use? I am open to all suggestions. Like everyone I like to save money but I also hate to spend money twice. I would rather save up and have a machine that I will enjoy using and will hold up through the years

Thanks Scott

[yotebuster1200]

here are the things that I am now building and hoping to be able to find a machine that will help. Chaps both sewing multiple layers on chap leather together and sewing up to 8 oz tooling leather to chap leather. breast collars and britchings (im not sure on the spelling). saddles and probably some headstalls. I am sure their would be other projects but those are a few things I have been working on and or would like to work on.

[Bree]

You must consider the heaviest and lightest leather that you plan to sew and ask if the machine can handle both. Machines good at heavy leather are usually not as good at light leathers and vice-versa. There is no one machine that is best for everything. It's a game of compromises.

For moderate to heavy needs you won't go wrong with a Toro 4000. You won't regret getting the longer arm. Use with threads up to 415.

The Juki 1541s is a light-medium range powerhouse for thread in the 69-92 range.

[esantoro]

It would be nice to have as many perfect machines for whatever particular application is required. Barring that, my vote for the best all around machine would be a cylinder-arm (a tabletop option can be bought or made) walking foot that can easily do 69 to 277 (may have to knock that down to 207) thread all day with a presser foot clearance of a true 1/2", though it would be nice to get 3/4".

Now that I've written this, I'm thinking the answer may be simpler than imagined: a short or long arm Juki 441 clone with spacers/shims for needle sizes 24 and smaller. The only negative is that I'm not sure if it's possible to get system 794 needles smaller than 23 for thinner threads. This means perhaps another type of cylinder arm machine that uses a different needle system would fit the bill better. Perhaps a 328 needle system (or something similar) would be a good bet.

Now that I've written that, my mind wanders to the Sailrite Ultrafeed and its clones with a monster wheel, which are surprisingly versatile. I can not imagine doing gusset corners (or the six-inch lead-in to and lead-out from) on it. However, this little machine could just about handle everything else for a soft briefcase of sturdy construction. It will take 69 to 207 thread all day with very nice stitches. It will do 277 with 207 or 138 in the bobbin for short stints nicely. I suppose the real drawback is the small bobbin size.

If there were a law mandating that people could own only one sewing machine, I would probably choose this portable walking foot or maybe a slightly heavier machine that is similar, which I think might be the Sailrite/Singer 111 (maybe the Consew 206RB is similar). Sailrite has it on its site. I think the needle system for all these machines is 135x17/135x16, which seems very versatile to me.

Come to think of it, hasn't Sailrite already put a lot of thinking into what would be the ideal all-around machine, as it's something that should be somewhat heavy duty and able to be taken on board a sailboat for extended periods of time?

ed

[Art]

Hi Buster,

Well, for a minute there you were right on track for a 797 or 618 class machine that comes from the Highlead (Huigong No.3) factory in Shanghai. Then you said saddles and maybe you were also thinking holsters. This puts you into the heavy duty class of machine based on the Juki 441 or the Dürkopp Adler based machines. There are also short arm machines based on the 441 that many like a lot.

So currently available:

Cowboy 205-370 (like the Dürkopp Adler and is also available in 16.5" and 24" models)

Cowboy 441 (like the Juki and also comes in 9", 16.5", 30", and 37")

Cobra Class 3 (like Juki 441 but short 9" arm and no winder on machine, but on stand)

Cobra Class 4 (like the 16.5" Juki 441, winder on machine)

Artisan 3000 (like Cobra Class 3 Above)

Artisan 4000 (like Cobra Class 4 Above)

Ferdco 2020 (like Cobra Class 3 Above)

Ferdco 2000 (like Juki 441, 16.5")

Sewmo 441 (like Juki 441, 16.5")

Sewmo 205-370 (like the Dürkopp Adler)

These are the companies currently selling machines in the US. I say all of these are like the 441 or Adler, but each company slightly modifies the machines and changes some of the sewing parts for working with leather. Some I like better than others. If you call or PM me, I can tell you those opinions and why.

Art

here are the things that I am now building and hoping to be able to find a machine that will help. Chaps both sewing multiple layers on chap leather together and sewing up to 8 oz tooling leather to chap leather. breast collars and britchings (im not sure on the spelling). saddles and probably some headstalls. I am sure their would be other projects but those are a few things I have been working on and or would like to work on.

[yotebuster1200]

Ok What if I just decided to get a machine to sew my chaps, britchings, breast collars and that sort of stuff. And decided to just stitch my saddles and holsters by had for now. at this point I think I could live with that because as of now I dont see myself doing a whole lot of holsters and saddles for at least a little while. Then what would my options be. ??

Im sorry for my ignorance I relly do appreciate the help though

[Art]

Hi Buster,

Now you are into medium weight, like under 1/2". There are a lot of machines in this category. My druthers if you have the money is:

Dürkopp Adler 867 and I'd go the whole boat and get it with positioning servo motor.

A more reasonable alternative in no particular order would be the 797 frame or the 618-1 frame from Highlead (Huigong No.3 in Shanghai), you can get this from Artisan or Cobra and Cowboy and a lot of others. Get it with a Safety Clutch and a speed reducer if available.

Ferdco makes a Chinese version of the Famous Pfaff 1245, which is a good machine also.

Of course a lightly used Pfaff 1245 or 545 is a great machine also.

That's just some of them.

Art

Ok What if I just decided to get a machine to sew my chaps, britchings, breast collars and that sort of stuff. And decided to just stitch my saddles and holsters by had for now. at this point I think I could live with that because as of now I dont see myself doing a whole lot of holsters and saddles for at least a little while. Then what would my options be. ??

Im sorry for my ignorance I relly do appreciate the help though

[greg gomersall]

Hi Buster,

Now you are into medium weight, like under 1/2". There are a lot of machines in this category. My druthers if you have the money is:

Dürkopp Adler 867 and I'd go the whole boat and get it with positioning servo motor.

A more reasonable alternative in no particular order would be the 797 frame or the 618-1 frame from Highlead (Huigong No.3 in Shanghai), you can get this from Artisan or Cobra and Cowboy and a lot of others. Get it with a Safety Clutch and a speed reducer if available.

Ferdco makes a Chinese version of the Famous Pfaff 1245, which is a good machine also.

Of course a lightly used Pfaff 1245 or 545 is a great machine also.

That's just some of them.

Art

I would add that if you are looking at any of the above machines make sure the one you pick takes the 190 needle system. If you get one with the 135 needle system you will run into problems doing britchin and breast collars. Greg

[yotebuster1200]

I would add that if you are looking at any of the above machines make sure the one you pick takes the 190 needle system. If you get one with the 135 needle system you will run into problems doing britchin and breast collars. Greg

is this because the 135 needle system is to small to handle the work? As you can tell I really don't have a clue but I am willing to learn and this is all helping. if fact if anyone has any good places for me to go and do some reading to learn a bit more that would be great. Thanks again and keep the info coming

[yotebuster1200]

Hi Buster,

Now you are into medium weight, like under 1/2". There are a lot of machines in this category. My druthers if you have the money is:

Dürkopp Adler 867 and I'd go the whole boat and get it with positioning servo motor.

A more reasonable alternative in no particular order would be the 797 frame or the 618-1 frame from Highlead (Huigong No.3 in Shanghai), you can get this from Artisan or Cobra and Cowboy and a lot of others. Get it with a Safety Clutch and a speed reducer if available.

Ferdco makes a Chinese version of the Famous Pfaff 1245, which is a good machine also.

Of course a lightly used Pfaff 1245 or 545 is a great machine also.

That's just some of them.

Art

Art,

Ok how much would a Dürkopp Adler 867 set me back. I really dont know much about this stuff yet and apreciate the help. I do know that I like to have the best tools for the job. It usually makes things more enjoyable. Would you say this would be the best medium weight machine?

[Art]

Hi Buster,

867 is about $3200 and with the needle positioning motor about $4,000. Nice machine. Yes, best flat bed medium weight machine. The 618 machines are very good and you can knock a thousand or more off the 867 price.

Art

Art,

Ok how much would a Dürkopp Adler 867 set me back. I really dont know much about this stuff yet and apreciate the help. I do know that I like to have the best tools for the job. It usually makes things more enjoyable. Would you say this would be the best medium weight machine?