Tkleather1 Report post Posted March 17, 2009 Hi there I am looking for a good cylinder bed machine and I had my sights set on a Toro 3k but since some of the recent questions are going unanswered I thought about a Ferdco pro 440r. My dilema is I dont know a whole lot about these machines. I am interested in starting to do some saddle work but have not started that venture yet and dont know when I will be able to. I currently do alot of chap work as well as books and planners, Some tack, spur straps and other smaller projects. For my Chap and Chink work I use a Singer 31-15 and it works well until you start trying to go through two or three layers of chap leather and a peice of 8/9 oz. IT CAN BE DONE. but you really have to go slow and work at it. My main question I geuss is the 440 a big enough machine to do the ocasional saddle work. I know it will handle everything else I need, and I will not be doing Saddle work all day everyday. But hopefull on ocasion. Thanks in advance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg gomersall Report post Posted March 17, 2009 Ferdco makes a 1010 or a 2020 or something like that which is not much more than the 440r. you would be much happier with it. Greg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruce johnson Report post Posted March 17, 2009 Ok, you asked, you got it. The first powered machine I ordered was a 440. At that time it was the lowest priced machine. I was pretty ignorant and didn't ask the right questions. I was buying based on price only, and out of a rapidly escalating need to get things done. The capacity of the machine is not the question, but the throat plate has teeth to help feed the material and hold it in place and keep it from kicking forward. The biggest issue I had was these teeth made marks on lined things that would not rub out. Especially going around corners they would really eat up the lining. I called up Ron and explained my needs better. He agreed that I needed a different machine to be happy. If I had explained better instead of just buying it all would have been avoided I am sure. Another shameless plug for Ferdco. Ron offered to exchange the head out for an Adler 205-64 for what I recall was not much to boot on the deal. I was not sure and called Vernon Weaver (one of the real bright spots of that bunch). Vernon told me to get the Adler head and and if I didn't like it, he would make me a profit selling the whole setup to him. The Adler was everything Ron and Vernon said it was. Not to totally bash the 440 and its other clones, but I'd look for something different for the caliber of work you are doing. I know guys who use them and have smoothed down the teeth on the plate, but for the extra bucks, even a regular priced soldier in the current clone war would be a better choice to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tkleather1 Report post Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) Ok, you asked, you got it. The first powered machine I ordered was a 440. At that time it was the lowest priced machine. I was pretty ignorant and didn't ask the right questions. I was buying based on price only, and out of a rapidly escalating need to get things done. The capacity of the machine is not the question, but the throat plate has teeth to help feed the material and hold it in place and keep it from kicking forward. The biggest issue I had was these teeth made marks on lined things that would not rub out. Especially going around corners they would really eat up the lining. I called up Ron and explained my needs better. He agreed that I needed a different machine to be happy. If I had explained better instead of just buying it all would have been avoided I am sure. Another shameless plug for Ferdco. Ron offered to exchange the head out for an Adler 205-64 for what I recall was not much to boot on the deal. I was not sure and called Vernon Weaver (one of the real bright spots of that bunch). Vernon told me to get the Adler head and and if I didn't like it, he would make me a profit selling the whole setup to him. The Adler was everything Ron and Vernon said it was. Not to totally bash the 440 and its other clones, but I'd look for something different for the caliber of work you are doing. I know guys who use them and have smoothed down the teeth on the plate, but for the extra bucks, even a regular priced soldier in the current clone war would be a better choice to me. Thanks for the input, so what you are saying basically is I need a needle feed machine to be happy? I think you are probably correct. I just thought that( and you are right ) the price was a little better on this machine. The 2020 is a 5000.00 machine and as bad as I would like to I cant pull the trigger on that. other than the feed dawgs is that "weight" of machine capable of what I want to do. or in other words would the toro 3k be heavy enough for what I want to do? I know that they are different but that is next onmy list Again. Edited March 17, 2009 by Tkleather1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg gomersall Report post Posted March 17, 2009 the 1010 was the one i meant. they are not far from you, you could put some sample thicknesses together of what you want to be able to sew and go try the machine out in thier shop. If you decide it's the machine for you there would be no freight charges to worry about and your parts and service guys are an hour a way. Greg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted March 17, 2009 Hi Tim, The 2020 is a right expensive machine. A comparable machine would be a Cowboy or a Cobra for under $2000. These are good solid machines by experienced dealers. You may be able to upgrade to a longer arm for about $400-$500 more, that would be a clone of a Juki 441 and as much machine as you are likely to ever need. For your $5000, you can get BOTH a 441 longarm clone AND a good medium duty machine for the small stuff AND take the Missus to dinner and maybe have $500 left over. Cowboy also has a clone of the Adler 205 in various arm lengths if you like them. PM me if you want names and numbers. Art Thanks for the input, so what you are saying basically is I need a needle feed machine to be happy? I think you are probably correct. I just thought that( and you are right ) the price was a little better on this machine. The 2020 is a 5000.00 machine and as bad as I would like to I cant pull the trigger on that. other than the feed dawgs is that "weight" of machine capable of what I want to do. or in other words would the toro 3k be heavy enough for what I want to do? I know that they are different but that is next onmy list Again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tkleather1 Report post Posted March 17, 2009 Hi Tim, The 2020 is a right expensive machine. A comparable machine would be a Cowboy or a Cobra for under $2000. These are good solid machines by experienced dealers. You may be able to upgrade to a longer arm for about $400-$500 more, that would be a clone of a Juki 441 and as much machine as you are likely to ever need. For your $5000, you can get BOTH a 441 longarm clone AND a good medium duty machine for the small stuff AND take the Missus to dinner and maybe have $500 left over. Cowboy also has a clone of the Adler 205 in various arm lengths if you like them. PM me if you want names and numbers. Art Yeah I need to be in the 2000 to 3000 dollar range not the 5000 dolllar range. that is why I liked the Pro 440 and the toro 3k. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
