Questions about scroll carving

[Kustom]

I have a few questions about scroll carving and hope you all can help out.

1. Is there a different name for scroll work where it's a cut and tooled scroll pattern as opposed to just swivel knife cut scroll work?

2. Who are the people that are known for the tooled scroll work?

3. Does anyone have any pictures of excellent tooled scroll work they can post?

4. Where can I get some scroll patterns to carve?

Thanks in advance, Steve

[hidepounder]

Kustom,

I'm not sure I completely understand your question with regard to your term "scroll work". When you see a pattern that has been cut with a swivel knife and no other tools are applied, that is generally called "finger cutting". When you see tooling, it involves cutting with a swivel knife and then using additional tools to complete the pattern. The term "scroll work" could apply to either finger cutting or to a particular style of traditional floral tooling where no flower elements are used. Your better toolers do both. The first two award winning toolers that come to my mind, that are here on LW, are Troy West and Keith Siedel. Marlon just recently posted some of Travis Stillson's work which is absolutely as good as it gets! Peter Main, another award winning tooler, also does "scroll work" of a completely different style. There are several others here as well (my sincere apologies to all you guys I didn't name!) who are excellent toolers. If you can define "scroll work" a little better for me, I will try to answer your questions.

Bob

Edited March 19, 2009 by hidepounder

[TroyWest]

I do a lot of scrolls in my carving as it is an element I like. As Bob said there are a lot of different styles of scrolls. This is one example of a scroll type carving I did on a briefcase.

[Dually]

Bob modestly excluded himself as among the finer toolers on this forum. In my opinion.

[Hilly]

Bob modestly excluded himself as among the finer toolers on this forum. In my opinion.

Yes, he does do excellent scroll work, and superb finger cutting!

[Elton Joorisity]

You might want to find some examples of Monte Beckman's work. It looks a lot like gun engraving and is all scroll work.

[TroyWest]

Bob modestly excluded himself as among the finer toolers on this forum. In my opinion.

I'd like to ditto the above statement as well, along with adding that you must have a canvas to carve and Bob is an excellent craftsman of the leather items he carves. However he does have a flaw.

Bob is a swivel knife junky. An addict. I can recognize it because... well, I've been there.

It's time Bob for swivel knife anonomous or leather carver watchers or Jenny swivel knives.

Several years ago a circus came through our town and one of the baboons escaped. They never caught him and folks forgot about him. Years later he was killed by a truck but it had been so long nobody knew what it was. They actually thought it might be somebodies relative. Finally they sent for a wise old man who seemed to know everything. He studied him for quite a while and seemed quite confident when he spoke.

He said," Judging by those knarly fingers and hunched back from years of overwork. Slick red butt from years of sitting. Squinty eyes and curled lip from years of strain. That's just an old retired leather carver."

I'm not trying to scare you Bob, but we have to be careful to take care of ourselves. Just some thoughts from one junky to another.

[Kustom]

Kustom,

I'm not sure I completely understand your question with regard to your term "scroll work". When you see a pattern that has been cut with a swivel knife and no other tools are applied, that is generally called "finger cutting". When you see tooling, it involves cutting with a swivel knife and then using additional tools to complete the pattern. The term "scroll work" could apply to either finger cutting or to a particular style of traditional floral tooling where no flower elements are used. Your better toolers do both. The first two award winning toolers that come to my mind, that are here on LW, are Troy West and Keith Siedel. Marlon just recently posted some of Travis Stillson's work which is absolutely as good as it gets! Peter Main, another award winning tooler, also does "scroll work" of a completely different style. There are several others here as well (my sincere apologies to all you guys I didn't name!) who are excellent toolers. If you can define "scroll work" a little better for me, I will try to answer your questions.

Bob

Thanks Bob. That answers my question. I didn't know the swivel knife cuts were called "finger cuts". Right now I'm more interested in trying to refine my tooled scroll work.

[Kustom]

I do a lot of scrolls in my carving as it is an element I like. As Bob said there are a lot of different styles of scrolls. This is one example of a scroll type carving I did on a briefcase.

Wow Troy that is some great work and exactly what I'm talking about. I can only dream about being able to do that. Do you design you own carving patterns?

[BruceGibson]

Bob modestly excluded himself as among the finer toolers on this forum. In my opinion.

I'll second that!

[TroyWest]

Wow Troy that is some great work and exactly what I'm talking about. I can only dream about being able to do that. Do you design you own carving patterns?

Yes, I do design my own patterns. I'm sure all the guys Bob mentioned do as well. If you look at that pattern you can see it's the same pattern in each corner so I really drew one corner pattern and flipped it over to duplicate it. You do need to learn to draw patterns to fill spaces that you have on various items but it is something you can learn and develop.

I would start by drawing simple patterns without crossovers and as your drawing improves you can add those if you like.

I don't know if you have any artistic abilities or not. If you do, great. If not I have a friend I went to highschool with named Cary Blanchard. He rode bulls and later braided bull ropes. He always would come to our saddle shop and decided he wanted to tool. He started buying tools and started tooling. It was terrible. He would always ask for a critique and I would share my thoughts. I often thought man you should do something else, but he kept trying. It was really bad. I thought he had no aptitude for it. But he kept trying. He would tool something and bring it in for a critique over and over until it started to look OK. Then it began to look better and better and better, and one day it actually started to look good! This was over a period of years but eventually it was really nice. This guy who had no aptitude for it was tooling some very impressive stuff. He then began doing some contract tooling for Ray Holes and then some for King Saddlery in Sheridan and I dont even know who all he has tooled for now. The moral of this story is that I now believe that someone with the desire can learn to tool well with time and patience and practice.

So even if right now it's only a dream, It can become a reality. This forum is certainly a great place to ask questions and learn.

[hidepounder]

I'd like to ditto the above statement as well, along with adding that you must have a canvas to carve and Bob is an excellent craftsman of the leather items he carves. However he does have a flaw.

Bob is a swivel knife junky. An addict. I can recognize it because... well, I've been there.

It's time Bob for swivel knife anonomous or leather carver watchers or Jenny swivel knives.

Several years ago a circus came through our town and one of the baboons escaped. They never caught him and folks forgot about him. Years later he was killed by a truck but it had been so long nobody knew what it was. They actually thought it might be somebodies relative. Finally they sent for a wise old man who seemed to know everything. He studied him for quite a while and seemed quite confident when he spoke.

He said," Judging by those knarly fingers and hunched back from years of overwork. Slick red butt from years of sitting. Squinty eyes and curled lip from years of strain. That's just an old retired leather carver."

I'm not trying to scare you Bob, but we have to be careful to take care of ourselves. Just some thoughts from one junky to another.

MY NAME IS BOB, AND I'M A TOOLAHOLIC! Hell, I know I'm a swivel knife junkie, too, but I just can't help it! I'm down on knives now, I gave away all the junk knives I used to have. BTW, I won one of Pauls new knives while at Wickenburg...can't wait to try it. I know you said you liked yours. Time to fess up, though Troy, how many swivel knives and head knives do you have in the shop?

My wife wants you to know the rest of the story, Troy. According to her, that baboon miraculously survived and wound up in Phoenix...she sees him every morning!

[TroyWest]

I laughed and laughed when I read what you said Bob. When I saw all your swivel knives I thought wow, Bob's a junky! Then I looked at mine and I said I'm as bad as he is. Of course I justified it by saying well, I really do use all of them for one reason or another!

If you won one of Paul's you must have won the contest! Congratulations! I'm sure you'll love it and it will just fuel your addiction.

[Kustom]

Yes, I do design my own patterns. I'm sure all the guys Bob mentioned do as well. If you look at that pattern you can see it's the same pattern in each corner so I really drew one corner pattern and flipped it over to duplicate it. You do need to learn to draw patterns to fill spaces that you have on various items but it is something you can learn and develop.

I would start by drawing simple patterns without crossovers and as your drawing improves you can add those if you like.

I don't know if you have any artistic abilities or not. If you do, great. If not I have a friend I went to highschool with named Cary Blanchard. He rode bulls and later braided bull ropes. He always would come to our saddle shop and decided he wanted to tool. He started buying tools and started tooling. It was terrible. He would always ask for a critique and I would share my thoughts. I often thought man you should do something else, but he kept trying. It was really bad. I thought he had no aptitude for it. But he kept trying. He would tool something and bring it in for a critique over and over until it started to look OK. Then it began to look better and better and better, and one day it actually started to look good! This was over a period of years but eventually it was really nice. This guy who had no aptitude for it was tooling some very impressive stuff. He then began doing some contract tooling for Ray Holes and then some for King Saddlery in Sheridan and I dont even know who all he has tooled for now. The moral of this story is that I now believe that someone with the desire can learn to tool well with time and patience and practice.

So even if right now it's only a dream, It can become a reality. This forum is certainly a great place to ask questions and learn.

Thanks for the pointers Troy. I'll keep workin' on it.

[Kustom]

You might want to find some examples of Monte Beckman's work. It looks a lot like gun engraving and is all scroll work.

Thanks Elton. He has a website beckmansaddles.com some nice scroll work for sure.

[Its all about Leather]

Thanks Elton. He has a website beckmansaddles.com some nice scroll work for sure.

To answer anybody else's question concering scroll design that searches this site, I found the same questions answered in other forums.

His name is Ron Smith and his books are called Drawing and understanding scroll designs, and Advanced drawings of scrolls.

Here is a link to a website that sells his book at the cheapest price I can find.

http://www.contenti.com/products/books/116-614.html

i hope this helps anyone else who searches for scroll design.

Bill

Edited September 25, 2011 by Its all about Leather

[compound]

Hi all

Thanks for very interesting debate about leather work¨,swivel knives and baboons. Now i know what is this feeling during long hours above workbench

This year i meet Bob Klenda on ACM show in Loveland Colorado. He is incredible crafter. I had occasion see Bob in action with tool on hands .His working with swivel knife-finger carving are EXCELLENT. I must say his hints about technique and tools are very helpful for me. At present i wait consignment with two new swivel knives from Barry King.

Next level i hope will be knife from Zalesak-LeatherWrangler

[MADMAX22]

For anyone that wants a bunch of info on scroll work check this forum out. I signed up and there is a wealth of info there. http://www.handengravingforum.com/index.php