Bucket calf

[rawhide1]

Howdy to all in leather land!!

This year we decided to get my oldest daughter (she's 9)a bucket calf for 4H. So about a month and a half ago a fella down the road says he's got a twin but one eye looks frost bitten it's turned white. He says we can take it and if it makes we can go ahead and pay him and if not don't worry about paying for the thing. So we take it home and my girls are just loving it to death. Well about a week goes by and we notice the things legs are showing signs of frost bite. So I ask my daughter what she thinks and if I should put it down. She says no that we should try and get him by it. So i figure what the heck it will be a good learning experince for her having to doctor one. By this time he has infection set in pretty good. I mean the smell is enough to gag a maggot. So we put the antibotics to him. Well we got the infection gone in one leg although he did loose all the hide on that leg. But it's starting to grow back and that's the good leg. He gets around damn good on three legs. So the other leg which is the worst and I was pretty sure he was going to loose that hoof. Well last night we went to change the dressing and guess what there wasn't nothing holding that hoof on from the ankle down except some liagiments so I went ahead and cut it off and bandeged it up. So now he's got I nub back there. So I guess I'm at the fork in the road. Shoot him or try and get him fattened up to butcher. My daughter wants to try and fatten him up. I would like for my daughter to make the decision. Just because she's been getting up early and feeding him before school and after school without complaining. But I'm not to sure on how long to give her or maybe it's to big a decision for that age. I'm on duty today so I haven't seen him but the wife says he's getting around good. So maybe well wait and see. The funny thing is his eye healed up and looks normal. However it turns out I thinks it's been a good experince for her. And showed her that life aint always pretty. So now I got a month to find a good bucket calf. Sorry for rambling I just thought others may of had gone down this road already.

Mike

[bruce johnson]

I'll take a stab at this. First off, you might have some issues fattening him up to butcher. We are pretty much carnivores at our house, but even I have some little twinge eating something I gave a name to. As an aside, I am a veterinarian, I grew up in a family of cattle feeders and livestock buyers for slaughter plants, and worked in the slaughter houses. I have no misconceptions about where meat comes from.

If the foot fell off this calf and it is infected, do you really want to eat it? I have no problem with eating one that has been treated for something minor, but there is a limit. Some of these are so septic they have infection everywhere. There is enough safe meat out there, you have choices. Sick animals never gain like healthy ones. You aren't going to raise it any cheaper in the final result than buying it. Actually unless you are feeding on some scale, you aren't going to get it any cheaper feeding a single out.

They will get around decent on three legs for a while. I have broken legs on practice calves, and they usually heal and get to be alright if you confine them. That is different losing a leg, that won't grow back.

I am not lumping everyone in this but here goes. I see clients who thanks to modern medicine have all their grandparents and parents. They are 40 years old, three generations from the farm, and have never faced death of anything. Now they are basket cases because their 20 year old cat has kidney failure or their 20 year old horse can't get up. Death happens, and it is a real teachable moment for kids, and prepares us for what is inevitable for all of those around us. Personally I told people the "preparing for death" speech for 20 years to clients before I realized it was all a warmup for giving that speech one night to family members about someone very close to me.

I don't see too many young kids who are mature enough to make "the" decision. We traded horses, and my son grew up knowing "his" horse might be sold. He found out there was money raising and trading goats and calves, and some died and some we put down. Ideally it would be better if the first one your daughter deals with doesn't die. Unfortunately if you are around them long enough some will. We still have to drag one off to the bone pile once in awhile, and it is economic as well as emotional. If you do decide to put it down, you know your daughter but I see two extemes. Some people don't want the kids anywhere close, and others have them force them to be a part of it. Some kids can handle it, and some can't. Some do better than the parents. Give them the choice and respect it.

What I'd do is to go buy about 5 calves. Even if only one is her club project, raising the others will be good experience. There was an old Iowa State extension vet who wrote monthly articles for some livestock publications. I always thought he was a crotchty old whatever and didn't share his philosphy in one of his columns. He made the comment that something near and dear to me (4-H) was a farce the way it had degenerated. None of the winning calves were practical for the marketplace nor any sort of economic lesson is livestock reality. I had decent horses, knew families making serious $$$$ selling club calves, hung out with steer jocks, and grand champions would buy a pickup. 4-H was teaching the future of ag. His suggestion was for each kid to start equal with $500 and go the auction to buy something or a few. Pay for their own feed, pay their own bills, and sell them back through a real auction. Judging would be simple, whoever had the biggest bank account at fair time was the grand champion. Without intentionally doing that, that is how my son was raised. John Herrick was right. My son is on his own now and pretty successful in trading, order buying, and auctioneering.

[Tkleather1]

what ever you do dont let the VEGAN on the other thread hear about this one.!

[HorsehairBraider]

I've raised animals my whole life and I agree this is a tough decision for a 9-yr-old to make, but you know your daughter, and perhaps she is up to this. If it had been me at that age, I don't think I could make the decision to put the animal down before it had suffered a *LOT* - way more than is reasonable or acceptable. Of course I don't let them suffer now, but I've had a lot of life experience to teach me. This might be a time when Dad's life experience could come in real handy. No need to torture the poor little thing.

I could sure help you out with some goats; but I probably live too far away.

In cases like this you find yourself wishing the animal would either clearly get totally better or simply die on its own; but alas, it doesn't always work out that way. I hope this works out good for your family.

And if you are close to northern NM PM me about a goat or two!

[rawhide1]

Bruce

Thanks for the repley

Ya know when we got the calf me and the wife told our daughter it was her deal good or bad. She wanted one so it was up to her on it's care. We talked to her about putting him down cause he was suffering and she couldn't use him for 4H. Her repley was I got him so I need to try and get him thru this. She didn't want to quit him because he was crippled. And I'm glad she feels that way about being responseable for animals in her care. But I also explained that at some point ya can't keep shoveing money in critters that are that sick. And sometimes ya need to cut your loses for your sake and the critters sake. I guess I want her to come to that conclusion herself and not feel like I made her put it down or that she quit him. But that it was the right thing to do. As far as eating him I've put so much medicine in him we shouldn't get sick for quit awhile. LOL I honestly don't thank he will gain or be able to support much weight. On the death issue I don't know what to think. She knows about death I've had to put a couple of her pets down already and she dealt with it pretty well. She doesn't want to be there and I really don't want her there if and when I put him down. Actually she wants the vet to do it. But I explained that it would cost between 30-50 bucks for him to do it and around a .05 for me to do it. I told her I could make some rawhide out of him and braid her something up. She wasn't to sure about that but thought maybe I could tan him out for a small throw for her bed. I guess I'll do what ever my wife tells me to do.

Thanks, Mike

[rawhide1]

Tim

No kidding!! I'd probaly get turned in to peta!

HorsehairBraider

Thanks for the words and the offer of the goats. I really have thought of stepping in but for some reason I feel she needs to sort this out on her own. She knows I'm there if she needs me or my advice.

Mike

Edited March 27, 2009 by rawhide1

[leatherworklee]

Just wanted to add my best wishs to your gal. I believe that 4-H is an excellent program if the parents will support the kids but let the kids do the work and the learning. My 9 year old grandson desided that he wanted to get some lambs and get into 4-H. We found him 3 orphan or "Bum" lambs the first of them died of pneumonia within 24 hours the second lasted a week the third two weeks. He is now on the waiting list to get 3 more from the U. S. Sheep Experiment Station near Dubois Idaho. I hope that they will be healthier and work out for him. I am really proud of his decisions so far. He makes 6 generations of our family to own sheep. No Vegans here.lol

[rawhide1]

leatherworklee

Thank you for your thoughts. I really think 4H is a great program also and well worth a kids time. Even if they get involved in a non livestock aspect of the club. Not only has my daughter learned to be more responsiable with her calf. But due to project talks she talks better than I ever will in front of a group. That damn silly calf is running and bucking around like a nut. So there might be hope for him yet!! Only time will tell. I wish your grandson well with his sheep.

Mike

[yaklady]

All this makes me feel really lucky. I bought two 4 day old bottle calves from a dairy real cheap last fall when the weather was changing. They had scours, one didn't want to eat, and they were both cold. The scours was easy to treat, some cholostrum encouraged the one to eat, and a heat lamp and a lot of straw helped beat the cold. I did wait too long to dehorn them, and now they each have one horn, on opposite sides of their heads. I guess they can put their heads together to fight off any foes.

Mike, if your calf is running and playing, he must not be suffering too much. It's amazing how much these little guys can take. Castration was nothing for my little guys. When I took the cat in for neutering, they offered to give him a long term pain killer. I said "why?". As soon as we got him home he was running and playing. Of course, this is nothing compaired to your calf. If your daughter wants to give the little guy a chance, I believe she will do everything she can to make his life a good one. It sounds like he won't be suffering near as much as some people I know, and no one is putting them down!

Good luck with him!

Kathy

Edited March 31, 2009 by yaklady

[rawhide1]

Kathy

Thanks for the words of encourgement. It's kind of amazing that when a critter gets hurt they just go on about life the best they can. If ya think about it most people would bitch and moan and lay down and die. But these critters just aint got any quit in them. So maybe that will carry him through. He's been eating grain and hay and we took him off of the antibotics. I reckon we'll just keep after it.

Mike

[yaklady]

That's the spirit! As long as he is eating and acting good, then he doesn't care, and probably doesn't know, he lost a foot. He may be able to carry himself just fine for the rest of his life. I had a pony which got her back leg caught in the fence and cut some tendons. The leg was never the same, and she never pulled the cart again, but she made a darn good brood mare. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[rawhide1]

Well the good news is the calf is doing fine as of now. But we did have to put my daughters horse down today. He could of had a couple of things going on but we didn't feel we could spend the kind of money that was needed to do all the tests. He could hardly stand and wasn't drinking water. He carried his head at a odd angle and just didn't have any balance and he was going down hill pretty quick. The vet said it could be a tumor,EPM, rabies or a few other things. I guess the bottom line was it was going to cost major bucks to maybe find out what was wrong and then no way of knowing if we could get him over whatever it was that was ailing him without spending a ton of money. So we had him put down and their going to test for rabies. Which hes had his shots every year except last yr. We got this horse as a colt for my oldest daughter when she was two. She will be ten next month so she's taking kind of hard. But I know she will get thru it. So it's been a pretty tough couple months out here on my daughters animals. And I may still have to put her calf down. Anyway Thanks for letting me vent my troubles on y'all.

Mike

[HorsehairBraider]

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that... it's very sad when you have to put one down like that. It even makes you feel bad when they are real old and this horse was pretty young, I can imagine how bad your daughter must feel.

[rawhide1]

HorsehairBraider

Ya it's pretty tuff having to put a young one down. I think it's bothering my wife more than my daughter. But they went shopping to help them get over it.LOL

Mike