Bree Posted April 6, 2009 Report Posted April 6, 2009 Saturday I was working on a large belt for a guy. It was a 6" tapering to 4" belt. I cut it from a side of saddle skirt veg tan and then took the 6" strap and set my Heritage splitter (Osborne 84 type) to reduce the thickness and give me a uniform thickness. I gave the blade a good honing with a hard Arkansas stone and a strop. It was razor sharp and ready for splitting operations. I set my depth and started the strap through and was getting a nice split unitl I got to the thickest part of the saddle skirt. It was like hitting a brick wall. I couldn't even cut the leather on a diagonal slice much less a straight pull. I couldn't rock it to cut... nothing worked. Luckily I had split as much as I needed to make the belt and I cut off the strap at the furthest point of successful splitting. I took some PIX of the leather and wanted to share them with you. Maybe see what you guys and gals have to say about this odd circumstance. BTW... the first part of the split went just fine... very easy cutting action... til I hit the "wall". Quote Ride Safe! Bree 2003 Dyna Wide Glide Memberships: Iron Butt Association, Niagara Falls HOG, Wild Fire HOG NRA, Niagara County Sportsman's Association
Moderator bruce johnson Posted April 6, 2009 Moderator Report Posted April 6, 2009 Bree, I may be wrong about the cause, but I think I feel a song coming on...... Rollin', rollin', rollin'. Rollin', rollin', rollin'. Rollin', rollin', rollin'. Rollin', rollin', rollin'. Rawhide! Hah! Hah! Keep rollin', rollin', rollin', Though the streams are swollen, Keep them dogies rollin', rawhide. Through rain and wind and weather, Hell bent for leather, Wishin' my gal was by my side. All the things I'm missin', Good vittles, love, and kissin', Are waiting at the end of my ride. Move 'em out, head 'em up, Head 'em up, move 'em on. Move 'em out, head 'em up: Rawhide. Cut 'em out, ride 'em in, Ride 'em in, cut 'em out, Cut 'em out, ride 'em in: Rawhide! Hah! Hah! Movin', movin', movin', Though they're disapprovin', Keep them dogies movin', rawhide. Don't try to understand 'em, Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em. Soon we'll be living high and wide. My heart's calculatin', My true love will be waitin': Waitin' at the end of my ride. Move 'em out, head 'em up, Head 'em up, move 'em on. Move 'em out, head 'em up: Rawhide. Cut 'em out, ride 'em in, Ride 'em in, cut 'em out, Cut 'em out, ride 'em in: Rawhide! (Rollin', rollin', rollin'.) (Rollin', rollin', rollin'.) Hah! (Rollin', rollin', rollin'.) Hah! (Rollin', rollin', rollin'.) Rawhide. Hah! Rawhide! Quote Bruce Johnson Malachi 4:2 "the windshield's bigger than the mirror, somewhere west of Laramie" - Dave Stamey Vintage Refurbished And Selected New Leather Tools For Sale - www.brucejohnsonleather.com
Members CitizenKate Posted April 6, 2009 Members Report Posted April 6, 2009 That's way tougher than anything I've encountered so far, Bree. Hope someone can provide some insight. Kate Quote
Bree Posted April 6, 2009 Author Report Posted April 6, 2009 Bree,I may be wrong about the cause, but I think I feel a song coming on...... Rollin', rollin', rollin'. Rollin', rollin', rollin'. Rollin', rollin', rollin'. Rollin', rollin', rollin'. Rawhide! Hah! Hah! Keep rollin', rollin', rollin', Though the streams are swollen, Keep them dogies rollin', rawhide. Through rain and wind and weather, Hell bent for leather, Wishin' my gal was by my side. All the things I'm missin', Good vittles, love, and kissin', Are waiting at the end of my ride. Move 'em out, head 'em up, Head 'em up, move 'em on. Move 'em out, head 'em up: Rawhide. Cut 'em out, ride 'em in, Ride 'em in, cut 'em out, Cut 'em out, ride 'em in: Rawhide! Hah! Hah! Movin', movin', movin', Though they're disapprovin', Keep them dogies movin', rawhide. Don't try to understand 'em, Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em. Soon we'll be living high and wide. My heart's calculatin', My true love will be waitin': Waitin' at the end of my ride. Move 'em out, head 'em up, Head 'em up, move 'em on. Move 'em out, head 'em up: Rawhide. Cut 'em out, ride 'em in, Ride 'em in, cut 'em out, Cut 'em out, ride 'em in: Rawhide! (Rollin', rollin', rollin'.) (Rollin', rollin', rollin'.) Hah! (Rollin', rollin', rollin'.) Hah! (Rollin', rollin', rollin'.) Rawhide. Hah! Rawhide! Jeez Bruce you're killing me!! LOL!! Quote Ride Safe! Bree 2003 Dyna Wide Glide Memberships: Iron Butt Association, Niagara Falls HOG, Wild Fire HOG NRA, Niagara County Sportsman's Association
gtwister09 Posted April 6, 2009 Report Posted April 6, 2009 Bruce, the comedian, hit the nail on the head... Regards, Ben Quote
Bree Posted April 7, 2009 Author Report Posted April 7, 2009 Bruce, the comedian, hit the nail on the head...Regards, Ben The painful part is that I have a side and a half of this stuff lyin around and I would like to use it up. It's very nice so long as you don't split it on the butt end. Quote Ride Safe! Bree 2003 Dyna Wide Glide Memberships: Iron Butt Association, Niagara Falls HOG, Wild Fire HOG NRA, Niagara County Sportsman's Association
Hilly Posted April 7, 2009 Report Posted April 7, 2009 Bree,I may be wrong about the cause, but I think I feel a song coming on...... <snip> LOL! Good one! Quote
Members kevinhopkins Posted April 10, 2009 Members Report Posted April 10, 2009 Saturday I was working on a large belt for a guy. It was a 6" tapering to 4" belt. I cut it from a side of saddle skirt veg tan and then took the 6" strap and set my Heritage splitter (Osborne 84 type) to reduce the thickness and give me a uniform thickness.I gave the blade a good honing with a hard Arkansas stone and a strop. It was razor sharp and ready for splitting operations. I set my depth and started the strap through and was getting a nice split unitl I got to the thickest part of the saddle skirt. It was like hitting a brick wall. I couldn't even cut the leather on a diagonal slice much less a straight pull. I couldn't rock it to cut... nothing worked. Luckily I had split as much as I needed to make the belt and I cut off the strap at the furthest point of successful splitting. I took some PIX of the leather and wanted to share them with you. Maybe see what you guys and gals have to say about this odd circumstance. BTW... the first part of the split went just fine... very easy cutting action... til I hit the "wall". Actually, I've had the same thing happen. Rawhide can be a cause, but quite often a tanning "burn" can cause the same thing. You won't see rawhide at all, but the leather is just hard as a rock. Can really cause grief on those heritage splitters. Kevin Quote
Bree Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Posted April 11, 2009 Actually, I've had the same thing happen. Rawhide can be a cause, but quite often a tanning "burn" can cause the same thing. You won't see rawhide at all, but the leather is just hard as a rock. Can really cause grief on those heritage splitters.Kevin It was really ridiculous. I was tugging as hard as I possibly could and then rocking the leather to get some slicing angle on it while someone was holding the heavy steel stand with a 3" X 18" X 24" granite stone on it and the splitter clamped to the stone... to keep the whole thing from tipping over!! When I finally gave up on it, I took a fresh 1 1/2" belt blank, put it into the splitter and skived it like a hot knife cutting through butter. Go figure. Quote Ride Safe! Bree 2003 Dyna Wide Glide Memberships: Iron Butt Association, Niagara Falls HOG, Wild Fire HOG NRA, Niagara County Sportsman's Association
Members jimsaddler Posted April 11, 2009 Members Report Posted April 11, 2009 It was really ridiculous. I was tugging as hard as I possibly could and then rocking the leather to get some slicing angle on it while someone was holding the heavy steel stand with a 3" X 18" X 24" granite stone on it and the splitter clamped to the stone... to keep the whole thing from tipping over!!When I finally gave up on it, I took a fresh 1 1/2" belt blank, put it into the splitter and skived it like a hot knife cutting through butter. Go figure. Hey Bree It appears from the Photo and the description to be a Raw spot. Not much you can do but avoid it. Usualy you will spot it on the Flesh side of the Hide a a discoloration and from the feel as it will be harder to flex in that area. Actually it can be an advantage if used as a point end for a Strap or Stirrup Leather as when the Holes are punched through it they tend to hold from Splitting better. If it is Skirt Leather you might try Damping the Hide and leaving it to mellow for a few Hours before cutting it. in some cases this works. Another way is to rub Saddle Soap into the Grain with a Warm Moist Cloth and wait till it Mellows then Oil your Splitter Blade lightly. Many years ago a certain Religeous person asked me to make a "Calf" (?) Flogging Strap out of a section of Raw centered Veg. The specifications were 3" wide by 2'2" long with a handle cut into one end. It must be made from Hide with a Raw center! Funny how the Students at the School he taught at threw Mud and Icecream on my Shop Window for making such an item. Apparently he mistook them for Calves and gave them 5 of the Best. His previous "Calf Flogger had been cut into strips and he wanted one that was nearly impossible to cut up. I never made another one despite numerouse requests to do so from his Fellow Teachers. Please have a Happy day. Kindest Regards. Jim. Quote
Members JamesR Posted April 11, 2009 Members Report Posted April 11, 2009 Bree,I may be wrong about the cause, but I think I feel a song coming on...... Rollin', rollin', rollin'. Rollin', rollin', rollin'. Rollin', rollin', rollin'. Rollin', rollin', rollin'. Rawhide! Hah! Hah! Keep rollin', rollin', rollin', Though the streams are swollen, Keep them dogies rollin', rawhide. Through rain and wind and weather, Hell bent for leather, Wishin' my gal was by my side. All the things I'm missin', Good vittles, love, and kissin', Are waiting at the end of my ride. Move 'em out, head 'em up, Head 'em up, move 'em on. Move 'em out, head 'em up: Rawhide. Cut 'em out, ride 'em in, Ride 'em in, cut 'em out, Cut 'em out, ride 'em in: Rawhide! Hah! Hah! Movin', movin', movin', Though they're disapprovin', Keep them dogies movin', rawhide. Don't try to understand 'em, Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em. Soon we'll be living high and wide. My heart's calculatin', My true love will be waitin': Waitin' at the end of my ride. Move 'em out, head 'em up, Head 'em up, move 'em on. Move 'em out, head 'em up: Rawhide. Cut 'em out, ride 'em in, Ride 'em in, cut 'em out, Cut 'em out, ride 'em in: Rawhide! (Rollin', rollin', rollin'.) (Rollin', rollin', rollin'.) Hah! (Rollin', rollin', rollin'.) Hah! (Rollin', rollin', rollin'.) Rawhide. Hah! Rawhide! Bruce, All these years since I heard that on TV and finally I have the words to it! Many thanks.\ Jim Quote
Bree Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Posted April 11, 2009 Hey BreeIt appears from the Photo and the description to be a Raw spot. Not much you can do but avoid it. Usualy you will spot it on the Flesh side of the Hide a a discoloration and from the feel as it will be harder to flex in that area. Actually it can be an advantage if used as a point end for a Strap or Stirrup Leather as when the Holes are punched through it they tend to hold from Splitting better. If it is Skirt Leather you might try Damping the Hide and leaving it to mellow for a few Hours before cutting it. in some cases this works. Another way is to rub Saddle Soap into the Grain with a Warm Moist Cloth and wait till it Mellows then Oil your Splitter Blade lightly. Many years ago a certain Religeous person asked me to make a "Calf" (?) Flogging Strap out of a section of Raw centered Veg. The specifications were 3" wide by 2'2" long with a handle cut into one end. It must be made from Hide with a Raw center! Funny how the Students at the School he taught at threw Mud and Icecream on my Shop Window for making such an item. Apparently he mistook them for Calves and gave them 5 of the Best. His previous "Calf Flogger had been cut into strips and he wanted one that was nearly impossible to cut up. I never made another one despite numerouse requests to do so from his Fellow Teachers. Please have a Happy day. Kindest Regards. Jim. LOL!! Great story and great advice. I knew these Christian Brothers that taught at a local catholic high school. The brother that taught woodshop had a leather strap very much like the one you describe. I guess he used to have the boys who were bad bend over, hold their ankles, and he would whack them right below the butt at the top of the thigh. They would immediately levitate towards heaven. Quote Ride Safe! Bree 2003 Dyna Wide Glide Memberships: Iron Butt Association, Niagara Falls HOG, Wild Fire HOG NRA, Niagara County Sportsman's Association
Members Saddlebag Posted April 15, 2009 Members Report Posted April 15, 2009 I was told it was the result of a hard blow to the animal, not enough to break the skin but enough to cause some scarring under the skin. My instructor referred to it as a bone as that's what it felt like. Quote
Bree Posted April 16, 2009 Author Report Posted April 16, 2009 I was told it was the result of a hard blow to the animal, not enough to break the skin but enough to cause some scarring under the skin. My instructor referred to it as a bone as that's what it felt like. You can't see it from the grain side or the flesh side of the hide. It is a nice looking cowhide. But you sure hit the "bone" when you try to split the darn thing. I suppose maybe some of the scarring causes the tanning chemicals to not penetrate as well as they should or something. This came off the butt portion of the hide... very thick section... 14-15 oz. The shoulder and center sections split easily. Maybe the cow fell on its butt or something. This is the first time I ran into this. It's weird. Quote Ride Safe! Bree 2003 Dyna Wide Glide Memberships: Iron Butt Association, Niagara Falls HOG, Wild Fire HOG NRA, Niagara County Sportsman's Association
Members jimsaddler Posted April 17, 2009 Members Report Posted April 17, 2009 You can't see it from the grain side or the flesh side of the hide. It is a nice looking cowhide. But you sure hit the "bone" when you try to split the darn thing. I suppose maybe some of the scarring causes the tanning chemicals to not penetrate as well as they should or something. This came off the butt portion of the hide... very thick section... 14-15 oz. The shoulder and center sections split easily. Maybe the cow fell on its butt or something. This is the first time I ran into this. It's weird. Hi Bree I think you hit the nail on the head about the Chemicals not penetrating. It's actually quite common The "Bone" is not common as usually it is shaved off in the Tanning process. Raw Spots pull you up with a jolt, and are usually at the heaviest spots. When you buy Hides turn them over and run your cupped hand under the Hide (Grain Side) and your three middle fingers on the Flesh side in the middle of the cupped area, by moving over the hide in suspect area's you will feel the difference in flex of the hide. This allows you to reject the Hide (and Jolts). Watch for discoloration spots especially glossy area's. Takes a bit of practice, but allows you to avoid problems. Or put the side to some other use. Some batches of hides (20) will have 2 or 3 "flinty or Raw spots". Bony tissue spots are usually Shaved off in the Tanning process when they hit the Blade as they are obvious and the whole hide is downgraded. I hope this helps with buying Leather for you all. Kindest Regards. Jim. Quote
Bree Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Posted April 17, 2009 Hi BreeI think you hit the nail on the head about the Chemicals not penetrating. It's actually quite common The "Bone" is not common as usually it is shaved off in the Tanning process. Raw Spots pull you up with a jolt, and are usually at the heaviest spots. When you buy Hides turn them over and run your cupped hand under the Hide (Grain Side) and your three middle fingers on the Flesh side in the middle of the cupped area, by moving over the hide in suspect area's you will feel the difference in flex of the hide. This allows you to reject the Hide (and Jolts). Watch for discoloration spots especially glossy area's. Takes a bit of practice, but allows you to avoid problems. Or put the side to some other use. Some batches of hides (20) will have 2 or 3 "flinty or Raw spots". Bony tissue spots are usually Shaved off in the Tanning process when they hit the Blade as they are obvious and the whole hide is downgraded. I hope this helps with buying Leather for you all. Kindest Regards. Jim. Great advice Jim!! I usually buy pre-split hides because I don't make saddles or armor so I don't need 14oz - 16 oz leather. I picked up these hides on a sale and figured that I would just cut em and split em as needed. It's all a learning process. Stuff never stops surprising me! Quote Ride Safe! Bree 2003 Dyna Wide Glide Memberships: Iron Butt Association, Niagara Falls HOG, Wild Fire HOG NRA, Niagara County Sportsman's Association
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