What makes you describe a piece of work as 'well finished'

[HorsehairBraider]

Someone said something to me that really changed the way I view my work. I had just done a sculpture, and thought it looked "stupid".

The thing that really got to me was, someone said "If you died today, this would be the best thing you ever made!" She was trying to be encouraging, but I was absolutely horrified. *THAT* was going to represent my body of work?! I sure as *HECK* did not want that! So, I try not to sell stuff unless I am OK with it being the best thing I ever made, should I drop dead on that day. If you look at my website, you'll see I make a big deal about not braiding mane hair. It does not produce a good product... the hair is of a different structure than tail hair, and is simply not up to my standards. I am not interested in creating work not up to my standards.

Even so, you still see some improvement over the years. That is OK to me. I can only do the very best that I can do, on that day. Maybe tomorrow I'll have more knowledge and skill. (Gosh, I sure hope so!) There is always room to grow and improve.

As far as what I notice if I buy something... the first thing I look at is the quality of the leather. Pretty tough to make a good product out of poor quality materials... Then I look at details, such as stitches per inch, and straight stitch lines etc. It's funny, but if some of these details are there it's very reassuring... it says the person has a clue and knows enough to do all these things, and makes you feel like they got the rest of it right too.

It also makes me feel good if they signed it or put their maker's mark on it. I wish I could figure out a way to sign horsehair...

[kevinhopkins]

Hi.. There's a lot of great answers on this one. I think most folks would agree on whether a project is well finished or not... But I think that there is something that prevents and hinders many beginners and intermediate crafters from being able to produce a well finished pc. Proper equipment. Whether it's a good quality hand tool, or an actual machine, it can make all the difference. I'm privileged to work along side a master leather crafter (Bo Riddle) and his use of machinery and various hand tools is a joy to behold! And his work speaks for itself.

Kevin

[hidepounder]

Hi.. There's a lot of great answers on this one. I think most folks would agree on whether a project is well finished or not... But I think that there is something that prevents and hinders many beginners and intermediate crafters from being able to produce a well finished pc. Proper equipment. Whether it's a good quality hand tool, or an actual machine, it can make all the difference. I'm privileged to work along side a master leather crafter (Bo Riddle) and his use of machinery and various hand tools is a joy to behold! And his work speaks for itself.

Kevin

I'm with you all the way on this, Kevin. You HAVE to have the right tools to complete the job. I'm working on a belt pattern right now, that I've been developing...it has some nickel and dime size flowers on it...and no matter how many times I tool it, or how how hard I try, I don't have the micro size tools that are necessary to make the pattern be all that it can be! I'm going to have to table this pattern until I can accumulate those specialty tools...consequently, that pattern will not leave here until that time. Having the skills is only half the battle!

[Tkleather1]

shoot bob are you selling any of your "skills" cause I could sure use them. I can save to buy the tools,I just dont know how to properly use half of em anyway, I need help with the refining and just flat learning the right and wrong way of doing things and there arent anyguys in my part of the world that I can go and sit in with that are near as good as I hope to be someday.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Tkleather1

[JohnBarton]

I am adding my reply before reading everyone else's. That way I get my thoughts out of the way without being influenced by other's criteria.

For me the very first thing that I look for in our own pieces as well as others is that everything is lined up as it should be. If it's supposed to be centered and aligned then it better be or I am going off like a rocket. Pieces that are supposed to be symmetrical should have a balanced flow to them.

The next thing I look for is the quality of the sewing. Are all the lines straight and properly spaced from the edges? Is the stitch length consistent, are the threads tight? No missing stitches. No loose ends.

Then I check that all measuring marks are gone. I hate to see marks left on a piece.

Then I check that all the snaps are set right that they work as they should, that rivets are set right and are set properly without dents and dings.

Then I check the zippers to make sure that they work right and are well sewn.

Then I check the edges and make sure I am happy with how they are burnished.

If all that checks out then I am happy with the piece.

I wish I could say that I always only let "perfect" pieces out the door but in fact I will let pieces go which aren't perfect in all areas. It's literally a case by case basis and it does pain me when something goes out that I am not 100% happy with. However I have come to understand that we are imperfect people working in an imperfect medium. So I do compromise on my own standards if the totality of the piece is good.

Having said that I aspire every day to improve our methods so that can turn out better and better goods. I forgot who did the description of the edge burnishing where the edges on his notebooks were like well polished wood. Bob? But someday I want all of our edges to look like that and for me it's a process of creating a foolproof method that everyone in the shop can follow to get the same results every time.

I think most people agree that it's in the details. I tell my people all the time that if someone is trading a good portion of their income for one of our cases then they expect it to be right and when things are not right it diminishes the magic in their eyes and makes them question their judgment in deciding to buy from us. I say that even worse is when something is not right with the case and they don't notice it but their friends do.

So for me a well done, well finished piece is one where the design not only flows but everything is just as it should be.

[JohnBarton]

i know i am my own worst critique....i know i have a very long way to go..pretty much a beginner... how do you know if what you do is good? i love my friends and family dearly...but... i don't know that they trust my reaction enough to be brutaly honest with me... i keep telling them...be honest...it's the only way i can improve. i know there were many pieces that i can see the flaws like flashing beacons...and when i point them out they say i wouldnt have seen that if you didnt show me. or they say i am too picky. i know if someone makes something for me by hand...i certainly don't pick it apart, i love that they wanted to create something with thier hands for me. my hubby says that with hand made..you want some flaws...makes every piece unique and people can see it's not machine produced. still doesnt make me go any easier on myself. i'm just glad that i get so much pleasure while i'm working on the project. maybe thats what i need to guage my performance on..not so much the end...but how much i enjoyed doing it? so i guess as i type this...my most important thing to get right...is keeping it fun and challenging

The criteria I use to judge if I am "good" or not is asking myself would I gladly pay what I am asking for this piece and be able to use every day without complaint?

Some people make perfect awesome bags that have all sorts of "flaws" in them where the rivets aren't set quite right, the handles are a little off, etc.... and they charge relatively little for a bag that works great and holds up. To me they are GOOD. If someone wants a couple hundred for a bag then it had better be nearly perfect in the fit and finish though in my eyes.

Family and friends often don't make good critics. I usually ask my wife for her feeling on a some pieces because she is artistic and I like to hear her first reaction. The important part is NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER show any irritation at anything they say about your work if you asked them for their opinion. This causes rifts.

As far as the idea that hand made goods 'have' to have flaws I completely and utterly disagree with that. I have seen so many top notch pieces that were nearly flawless - I say nearly only because I wasn't able to inspect them all minutely - that I don't accept that something has to be flawed as a mark of being handmade.

Almost all forms of leather goods that are made in factory environments have a LOT of hand work in them. The resulting quality of the finished pieces is almost always conditional on the ability and care of the people doing the sewing and riveting. There is no such thing as a machine where you throw leather in one end and a perfect bag pops out the other side. :-)

Flaws in the fit and finish come about simply because we don't take the time to do it right, we measured wrong, we put something in the wrong place, or we just had a brain fart at the wrong time. They happen to all of us.

In cue making there are cue makers who will throw away a nearly finished cue if they make a mistake. They will put out nothing less than their idea of perfect. They also charge accordingly for that perfection. I have rejected cases for the things I mentioned in my previous post. It honestly depends on the flaw and how I feel about it. I don't think that there is anything wrong with being picky about the things that will bear your name. I think each of us needs to find their own comfort level with the goods we do and hope that our level finds customers who agree.

As my friend Bill Stroud said once, "my stuff costs so much because I don't want to stand here at shows and explain why something is not right on my cues."

[UKRay]

I must say that the answers I got to my questions have surprised me. How can insecurity be an issue in this multi-faceted and multi-talented leatherworking community? Okay, I rarely post pictures of my stuff on the board because I don't feel it 'jumps high enough' when compared to the other stuff I see; but I failed to see that most everyone else is concerned about their products too. Thanks guys, I feel a lot better!

As this thread developed I had had a few ideas myself about ways to improve the look and 'purchase factor' of my work. Having listened to everyone else I'm rather less worried about the quality of the workmanship as I concentrate a lot of effort on making stuff as well as I can and already try to pick up on all the things that have been mentioned. In fact I already spend far too much time looking for problems!

One thing I have identified as a problem is rivets. I currently use hammered tubular rivets and wonder if there is a better looking solution. Tubular rivets always look cheap to me and tend to rust or discolour at the first opportunity. I'd prefer to use a machine to set rivets but don't know what is available - or affordable. I'm also unsure how a machine would cope with rivets that need to be set in difficult places.

Aside from the 'build quality' I am quite concerned that the first view a customer has of my work leaves a good impression so I have recently invested in a big pack of plain white tissue paper to wrap individual items in before they are shipped. I don't care what the thing is, somehow tissue paper seems to add value - anyone got thoughts on that?

I have already gone down the route of buying in nice cloth bags for my larger leather items. They also add some perceived value. I'm now toying with the idea of paper or leather 'tags' and have just purchased a couple of shield shaped cutters from eBay to see how shaped tags look with my maker's stamp on them. Does anyone else do this?

I have mentioned in the past that I always include a set of care instructions with my leather bags and can say with some authority that these have definitely bought me in more business. They simply carry my name, email address, website and phone number along with some basic care hints. I wrap them around a jar of Skidmore's cream and a yellow duster and hold it all together with a rubber band - it ought to be a leather thong really I guess...

Anyone else got any ideas? Red tissue? Blue Tissue? Ribbons - I don't care as long as it works!

Edited April 15, 2009 by UKRay

[HorsehairBraider]

Re: packaging. I agree, it helps, and it shows you have pride in your work. I package my stuff in a clear ziplock baggie, with my card right behind it (It's blue, sort of, and I think adds some visual appeal) and behind the card are the care instructions. Even if I am making 10 things for the same person, every single item is individually packaged this way. That might seem redundant but I have no idea if these things are gifts for other people etc. and anyway, they look really classy in the package. And if they *are* gifts, every person who gets the gift sees it looking really nice in the package and as an aside gets one of my cards...

As far as tags... I can't really tag most of my work. But, I have seen some really nice tags on things. I just bought a new harness (after saving my money for a very long time) and the harness is by a well-known maker. It has little woven cloth tags sewn in to the various parts: the breast collar, the gig saddle etc. They are very tiny and discreet but very classy looking. And I'm quite proud to have them there: this harness is a work of art. It's a harness for a miniature horse, but the maker did not skimp on any details. It is truly high quality and I feel the tags add to it.

What Suze said about personal appearance is a good point, if you meet your customers face-to-face. If you mostly do your work from a website (like I do) then I would also urge to make sure the site is simple, easy to use, with a look that reflects you and your work. If I get asked a question often enough I change my site - for example, a lot of people would call or write and ask how to place an order... so at the end of EVERY item description on my site, I wrote "Just print out the Order page, and send it to me with your hair" because apparently I had not made that clear enough. Now I don't get that question nearly as often... but any question I get very often, I try to address. Some people are just never going to read the instructions, and some people just want you to hold their hand... you will never get away from that. But you do have to make it as easy as possible for a complete stranger, who has no idea what you offer or how to order, to get their questions answered simply and quickly.

And then there is the really basic stuff... at least to me... like, call people back when they call to enquire! Or if they write you, write them back! I have had lots of people react with surprise when I write them back or return their call. They should not have to be surprised, it should be a matter of professionalism that their call is returned or their email answered.

But I think a lot of this is just acting like a professional.

[rdb]

2P worth...

Looks to me, you're talking two different subjects.

One would be the qualities that make for a good example of leatherworking skills. The second would be in the marketing and sales display area.

I think we can all agree on what's involved in quality leather products, from stitching to burnishing. Maybe we all differ on what value we place on those products. Sometimes, the not so famous, or those who haven't been working leather for twenty years or more, can produce as fine a quality work as any, They just don't get the price for their work, that more established shops put out. Maybe it's their particular area that has less in the pocket, or just not the right clientele...or even like me, who makes whatever the customer wants at the time for the price they are willing to pay. I can't strive for perfection in each piece. I just don't have the customer base that is willing to pay $125 to $250 for a belt, or a cell case. Occasionaly, I might run into someone like that, but it's rare. Pricing can hurt sales too. Some of the finest wallets are made by people on this board, but the quality of their work has to be reflected in the pricing, It's hard to find enough people willing to pay that money, to keep the shop heat on. I believe there is a direct correlation between the quality of work, and what you can realistically charge for it. There's almost no point in making a $2500 cue case, if you don't have people to buy it. If you are willing to spend the years making for a niche market, like that, or holsters, or saddles, it will happen, I'm sure, but for most of us, it's a big risk to put all the eggs in one basket. Of course, the rewards could be greater too.

I'm in the "quick nickel" category. "I'ld rather make a quick nickel, than a slow dime". Perfection is over-rated, and you can quote me on that...lol.

Many famous artists, intentionally put flaws in their work, saying something along the line that, only God can make something perfect. I'm not sure I agree with that philosophy, but it says something about our humanity.

The next part is presentation. Like you Ray, I've wondered about nice boxes, and cloth bags, etc. There's someone on this board who throws in all kinds of stuff with the product (I think it was steveb?), including left over pieces of leather, decals for the car, magnets, and probably the kitchen sink too. I thought that was a nice touch. The customer is pleased to find some goodies, and the marketing doesn't just stop with the sale, it goes on from there, when people see the decals and such. Excellent approach.

I like your discussion threads, Ray, but it's time for you to start throwing out some pictures too...lol.

That's all for now, lunch is over, back to the shop. I got 2 cell phone cases, four belts (a figure 8 stitched belt, a gunbelt, a name belt with his and her on it, and a plain black "biker" belt), a fold up walking cane leather seat replacement , 6-12 wood turner's chisel guards, a rifle sling, and ...sheesh more to do.

In my best DeNiro..."They keep draggin' me back in."

[Crystal]

I must say that the answers I got to my questions have surprised me. How can insecurity be an issue in this multi-faceted and multi-talented leatherworking community? Okay, I rarely post pictures of my stuff on the board because I don't feel it 'jumps high enough' when compared to the other stuff I see; but I failed to see that most everyone else is concerned about their products too. Thanks guys, I feel a lot better!

As this thread developed I had had a few ideas myself about ways to improve the look and 'purchase factor' of my work. Having listened to everyone else I'm rather less worried about the quality of the workmanship as I concentrate a lot of effort on making stuff as well as I can and already try to pick up on all the things that have been mentioned. In fact I already spend far too much time looking for problems!

I am always quite concerned that the first view a customer has of my work leaves a good impression so I have recently invested in a big pack of plain white tissue paper to wrap individual items in before they are shipped. I don't care what the thing is, somehow tissue paper seems to add value - anyone got thoughts on that?

I have already gone down the route of buying in nice cloth bags for my larger leather items. They also add some perceived value. I'm now toying with the idea of paper or leather 'tags' and have just purchased a couple of shield shaped cutters from eBay to see how shaped tags look with my maker's stamp on them. Does anyone else do this?

I have mentioned in the past that I always include a set of care instructions with my leather bags and can say with some authority that these have definitely bought me in more business. They simply carry my name, email address, website and phone number along with some basic care hints. I wrap them around a jar of Skidmore's cream and a yellow duster and hold it all together with a rubber band - it ought to be a leather thong really I guess...

Anyone else got any ideas? Red tissue? Blue Tissue? Ribbons - I don't care as long as it works!

Ray- I've had the same thoughts on the tissue paper. I've bought some clothing from a few stores that carefully wrap up your purchases in tissue paper before they put them in a nice paper shopping bag with handles. Somehow, as a buyer, I get a good feeling about coming home and then unwrapping it. Seems like a present. I haven't spent any more money than I would have at Waly-World, where they just dump everything into a plastic bag, but I don't have the same good feeling coming home and taking those things out of the plastic bags. Color of the tissue paper? I don't think that really matters as long as you use the same color all the time. Make it like a brand mark. I loved TomSwede's keyfob with his maker's stamp on it. I think that is a brilliant idea to include that as a tag. Maybe make it up as a keyfob for higher end items?

I like what you are doing with the cloth bags for your other goods. It's that little something extra that I think says that if you are putting that much effort into the packaging, you must be taking the extra effort with the items you produce. All that said- I go back to "You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear." If the quality of the work isn't there - other than wrapping it in gold, I don't think the packaging is going to matter much at all.

I made a holster a little while ago - first one. It came out okay - had lots that I wasn't happy with. I showed it to my farrier the other week. He loved it. He pulled out a manufactured holster he had that he bought from a store. Mine was nicer than that one, but not as good as most shown on here. Does that make my holster "well finished". Not to me, it was better than that one but not at a level where I think my work should be. Ultimately I think customers decide what "Well Finished" is.

Crystal