"Leather"

[Bree]

So this guy comes over today to have his new biker jacket sleeves shortened. He has a patchwork jacket with some pre-sewn patches. He paid like $49 for it. I told him that the patches weren't high quality but the sewing of all the patches would cost as much as the jacket. He smiled and seemed pleased with himself.

So I started looking at the jacket to see what would be involved in shortening these sleeves. I'm focused on the 2 zippers that have to be shortened and the gusset for keeping water out. All of a sudden I notice a little like hole in the leather that reminds me of a crater on the moon... with a rim and all. It is very small but I have never seen anything like it on leather before.

I look closer and see a place where there is some wear and the leather is frayed and stringy! It isn't leather at all. LOL! It's plastic. The zigzag stitching is almost all fake. There is no thread. I put some masking tape on the bottom of the sleeve to mark the cut line and when I removed it beautifully lifted the paint right off the plastic.

I laughed my ass off and told him... well you got what you paid for! Poor guy. Shortening the sleeves is going to cost him as much as the coat!

[rdb]

I've done quite a few motorcycle jacket repairs lately. Cutting off the racing bib, sewing buttons back on for linings, restitching inside pockets, back seams, taking zippers in a "scrinch"...etc. It's mostly the customer buying the wrong sizes, and/or extremely poor workmanship.

Just about everything being sold to the biker community is junk!!!!! China, Pakistan, Ucheapastan....

Come on, now! $45 for a vest made with the thinnest leather possible. Fine thread that wouldn't hold a seam if you held a gun to it, no backstitching, AND everyone from the mfg to the retail takes a cut. How can that be on $45? Because it's JUNK! Cheap labor, cheap material. The only loser is the customer... Sometimes, I think they deserve it.

And they still think you can make something as cheap as they buy in all the bike shops...sheesh! As if we would.

Whatever happened to Buy American?

[Bree]

I've done quite a few motorcycle jacket repairs lately. Cutting off the racing bib, sewing buttons back on for linings, restitching inside pockets, back seams, taking zippers in a "scrinch"...etc. It's mostly the customer buying the wrong sizes, and/or extremely poor workmanship.

Just about everything being sold to the biker community is junk!!!!! China, Pakistan, Ucheapastan....

Come on, now! $45 for a vest made with the thinnest leather possible. Fine thread that wouldn't hold a seam if you held a gun to it, no backstitching, AND everyone from the mfg to the retail takes a cut. How can that be on $45? Because it's JUNK! Cheap labor, cheap material. The only loser is the customer... Sometimes, I think they deserve it.

And they still think you can make something as cheap as they buy in all the bike shops...sheesh! As if we would.

Whatever happened to Buy American?

You got that right! We cut the sleeves after I pulled off the zipper teeth and applied some new stops. The zipper was good quality but that's where it stopped. The "leather" flesh side was fiber... and not even well bonded fiber. The whole thing is junk. I'm keeping it to show people what the difference is between real leather and this crapola.

I had a gal who asked me to replace a strap on her new purse. It was crapola plastic & paper too. She got nice new 5 oz. chrome tanned cowhide for her strap and now she loves it. She asked me to make her a purse out of the same leather. I told her she couldn't afford it! LOL!

Poor girl has expensive taste without a job to support it!

[MADMAX22]

Sad part is most of them rave about there stuff. This is one instance that you gotta go USA for quality. Not saying other places dont produce it but what gets imported to the US is the mass produced junk, they seem to keep all the good stuff they make and sell it locally or something.

There are a few places you can get good biker gear online, fox creek leathers are where I got my chaps, nice leather and good workmanship but they werent cheap either. Two to three times the cost of the thin junk you could get somewhere else. There are very few local places to get anything that isnt imported. Infact I know of only one place that is somewhat close that a lady works at and she makes pretty good stuff.

[Shorts]

That's rough! lol

Should told the guy to bring more patches to hold the 'leather' together

Re: Fox Creek, that's who we went with for our gear in '06. Those have worn well, DHs even took a low side one ride and came out well

Will have to go to lighter gear for here in TX though. Might switch to mesh. I think perf'ed leather would still be too hot.

[Ian]

When China first began producing leather jackets, they were high quality leather and construction, priced low and subsidized by the government - just long enough to put many of the American makers out of business (same with boot makers), and then they began mass producing low grade products once the competition had been eliminated. When I was selling Pakistani leather in my shop, even my Pakistani supplier told me that they could barely compete with the prices of Chinese goods, even considering that most garment leather is American hides tanned in Pakistan and India.

I blame the consumer as much as I do the foreign goods. My tattoo guy wanted a couple of vests made. When I told him that my price is roughly 3 times that of the Pakistani stuff, he was fairly shocked and opted to order imported stuff from the Internet- YET, he has no quams about charging a hundred dollars an hour when I go to his shop. People have been conditioned to price other peoples labor based on imports.

I am not one of those people who neccessarily think that American made products are always superior. I had seen some beatiful quality coming from Asia, and some pretty sloppy stuff made in the US. But, when it comes to motorcycle leather the number of guys who ride 25,000 dollar Road Kings wearing $25 dollar vests seems to be the norm.

And, how about this one. I got a jacket in for repair, made by a fairly well known American maker. I happened to have the same jacket in the shop, but made in Pakistan. I spent quite a while going over every inch of both jackets, counting stitches, comparing linings, and measuring every square inch. It was identical in every detail. I came to the conclusion that this was a jacket made in Pakistan which he had sewn his label and 'Made in U.S.A.' tag into.

No doubt, this industry has been ruined by all the fakery, phony products, flea market vendors and the like. Where is the Federal Trade Commision, protecting American consumers? My idea for a slimulus plan would be to procecute all these hucksters and bring back the mystique and value that leather used to have.

[Bree]

When China first began producing leather jackets, they were high quality leather and construction, priced low and subsidized by the government - just long enough to put many of the American makers out of business (same with boot makers), and then they began mass producing low grade products once the competition had been eliminated. When I was selling Pakistani leather in my shop, even my Pakistani supplier told me that they could barely compete with the prices of Chinese goods, even considering that most garment leather is American hides tanned in Pakistan and India.

I blame the consumer as much as I do the foreign goods. My tattoo guy wanted a couple of vests made. When I told him that my price is roughly 3 times that of the Pakistani stuff, he was fairly shocked and opted to order imported stuff from the Internet- YET, he has no quams about charging a hundred dollars an hour when I go to his shop. People have been conditioned to price other peoples labor based on imports.

I am not one of those people who neccessarily think that American made products are always superior. I had seen some beatiful quality coming from Asia, and some pretty sloppy stuff made in the US. But, when it comes to motorcycle leather the number of guys who ride 25,000 dollar Road Kings wearing $25 dollar vests seems to be the norm.

And, how about this one. I got a jacket in for repair, made by a fairly well known American maker. I happened to have the same jacket in the shop, but made in Pakistan. I spent quite a while going over every inch of both jackets, counting stitches, comparing linings, and measuring every square inch. It was identical in every detail. I came to the conclusion that this was a jacket made in Pakistan which he had sewn his label and 'Made in U.S.A.' tag into.

No doubt, this industry has been ruined by all the fakery, phony products, flea market vendors and the like. Where is the Federal Trade Commision, protecting American consumers? My idea for a slimulus plan would be to procecute all these hucksters and bring back the mystique and value that leather used to have.

That really sucks to slap a Made in US label on an import. I am 100% in agreement without on prosecuting them. For whatever it's worth that Made in the US is ours and we should protect our brand!

[Rayban]

So what's your point Bree?....other than dumping crap on a guy who didn't know leather from synthetic, and you had a laugh at his expense.....I don't follow....

[JohnBarton]

I have so much to say about this subject but no energy to say it. I have produced leather cue cases in Germany, Turkey, Taiwan and China for nearly 20 years.

In that time I have seen just about every kind of trick employed to disguise the fact that goods are made of vinyl and not leather while being advertised as leather. In some cases the importers don't even know because the manufacturer sells it to them as leather.

I have seen manufacturers make samples out of real leather and deliver vinyl.

One of my customers on the wholesale side was buying my real leather production cases and importing copies of my designs as well. Aside from the design theft the main problem was that the importer and subsequently their dealers were advertising their cases as "leather" for half the price of mine.

I got fed up with it and told the importer that I would burn one of his cases at my booth to prove to the public that they were vinyl if they didn't stop falsely advertising them as leather.

So come trade show time they show up at my booth with the manufacturer in two and present me with a sample and ask me if it's ok if they advertise this one as leather. Now let's completely disregard the utter rudeness of bringing a copy of my case to my booth to ask my permission to sell it. I looked at the case and determined as best I could without tearing it apart that it was leather and said sure go ahead. Then I asked the importer point blank if he was paying the same price for this case as the fake-leather ones - no answer but the expression said it all.

It's brutal. Especially if you are the one who invented a design and everyone starts knocking you off.

What is that quote about there being nothing in the world that someone can't make cheaper and worse and the people who only buy on price being this man's lawful prey......?

[ETW Grumpy]

Unfortunately, most Americans suffer from "Wal-Mart mentality". Everything they price, they compare to what they would pay for it at Wal-Mart. The concept of craftsmanship and artisan produced durable goods is almost lost today. I have quoted prices for wallets and belts to potential customers only to have them say," But I can get a wallet at Wal-Mart for $20." I try and explain to them the difference in handcrafted quality leather that will last for years, and the cheap vinyl garbage that Wal-Mart sells. Sometimes they see the light and sometimes I get a glazed look and they walk away.

[Suze]

or -- when they look at your work are only willing to pay for the Material COST that you have in it.

NOTHING for your time or talant.

Sure the dollhouse stuff I used to make and sell were next to nothing in the material cost departmant (my big thing was macrame and I used sewing thread -- two dollars a spool - basicly next to nothing cost wise)

But the TIME I put into things -- I had one owl wallhanging that I put 12 HOURS in to knot it up and it was maybe 3 inches long. I had someone offer me 50 CENTS for it. after all it was the size of a keyfob and that's what they paid for them at the flea market.

at the dollhouse shows I felt I was pushing it at 25 dollars (In 1980 this was a LOT) But it was a pattern for one you could hang on YOUR wall - knot for knot

the worst though was when I saw a "real one" at a craft show for 5 dollars - far less then the cost of the cords in the thing.

Of course your TIME and TALANT mean nothing because after all they can buy it at X-Mart for less. I also see this at SCA events - people are not willing to pay more than "flea-market price" for anything.

Oh and then there is the other mindset of the person who thinks that every piece of crap they own in the house is worth a lot of money cause it is "antique" -- this is called the Antique Roadshow Syndrome And is a real pain to deal with as well. (take my sister - PLEASE - she still thinks that every piece of stuff that mom or dad touched is worth gold)

[Bree]

So what's your point Bree?....other than dumping crap on a guy who didn't know leather from synthetic, and you had a laugh at his expense.....I don't follow....

Hey I didn't dump "crap" on him or have a laugh at his expense. I was straight up with him. I showed him exactly why it wasn't genuine leather and then pointed out that he still got a good deal since the sewing of the patches would have cost him what he paid for the jacket, patches, and sewing. We both laughed about it together.

As for my "point"... there is no point. I am just relating a story about something that happened during the day and sharing it. I guess you woke up on the wrong side of the bed.