Social security and medicare taxes for small business owners

[electrathon]

Only took me a minute to find the truth: http://www.dol.gov/ESA/minwage/chart.htm

[claybuster101]

One other issue to remember in all of this. There is not a business in the country that has ever paid a single penny in taxes, fees or whatever. 100% of those have all been passed on to the consumers, just in a hidden form.

Hmmmm....let's all take a moment to digest the above quote. Let's assume that I make, ummm, leather holsters. Ok, leather holsters it is. I need to have the following, including but not limited to: Some type of facility to work from...(where I live they charge an arm and a leg for property taxes, most of which funds a failing educational system that has been run into the ground...by guess who? Michigan educators and state goverment considered to be Democratic). Unless I use cave-man tools I will no doubt need electricity for lights and to run equipment. I still have a mortgage on the facility so I pay that every month. I need to maintain that facility (mechanical and structural) as well as weekly maintenance (lawn cutting, etc) Unlike some of the homes in Detroit that the people don't care what they look like. Uh, forgot to mention that I heat with natural gas and while we have dialed down, I have added extra insulation, new windows and doors to help control waste. Before I can even begin to consider a project I need to buy supplies. Leather, thread, tools, finish you all know the list goes on and on. BUT WAIT....all of this is not worth a damn if I don't have a customer to provide the goods for...that may require some advertising and promotion. If the customers are not forth coming, my supplies sit on the shelves and gather dust...in the meantime I still pay the above mentioned bills regardless of how much product has been sold. So, I guess the point of this is what the hell do you think pays for this stuff? It comes from PROFIT! Which in my vocabulary is not a dirty word. If I invest, take the risk, I deserve to profit from that risk. After all, that is (was?) the American way!

[esantoro]

Only took me a minute to find the truth: http://www.dol.gov/ESA/minwage/chart.htm

My apologies for jumping the gun on my minimum wage claim. I should have Googled it.

I based my assumption on the fact that the formula for determining poverty has not changed since the 1960's, but politicians of all stripes don't want to change it because doing so would raise the official poverty numbers on their watch.

To mitigate my error somewhat, the minimum wage still has not kept up with inflation. In the 1960's and 1970's, the minimum wage as with all things of financial value and whatnot were tied to reality. This I did Google:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/26/arts/how...?pagewanted=all

Further mitigation, if I may: "Adjusted for inflation, [the minimum wage has] declined from more than $6 an hour in the 1960's to $5.25 [in 2001].

I wasn't aware that the minimum wage is set to go to $7.25 this July.

Mea culpa, mea culpa. Thank you for correcting me on the minimum wage, but when the wage is adjusted for inflation I am not far off the mark.

I should also say that I don't hold my views because I think poor people deserve help. I hold them because a stacked deck affects 90 percent of Americans in negative ways. The artificially increased values of real estate the past 20 years is the most recent example. Limited health care for even those who think they are covered is another. I do see race playing a large hand in this, but in very subtle ways.

After World War II, America had to do something at least topically to dismantle apartheid in this country, especially after what NAzi Germany had done to Jews, Poles, and Gypsies. But at the same time the Civil Rights movement took place,financial mechanisms were also being tinkered with to skewer the playing field, which accounts for the fact that 80 percent of Americans are not better off than they were nearly 40 years ago. This has come about by design, not chance.

[esantoro]

Yes, you do deserve those profits. And you also deserve to deduct your expenses from your taxable income. Do you also deserve a 9% reduction in taxes for being a manufacturer, if the government is offering such a reduction?

(note: I know there is this 9% reduction out there and I know you need to have at least one employee. I'm not sure on any of the other particulars, just read about this while doing my taxes back in April.)

This doesn't really apply to small businesses, but how many large corporations do it all on their own without any government assistance. Why else do they contribute to politicians' campaign funds. They are getting a 5 percent return or better, much better, on those contributions. They are not doing business on their own, as most small businesses are.

Just for the record, I think you do deserve the 9% reduction if the government is offering. My only point is that many people talk about individual responsibility and individual profits, yet it seems that many of the corporations and wealthy entrepreneurs who hold this same line are sucking at the tit of corporate welfare.

One other issue to remember in all of this. There is not a business in the country that has ever paid a single penny in taxes, fees or whatever. 100% of those have all been passed on to the consumers, just in a hidden form.

Hmmmm....let's all take a moment to digest the above quote. Let's assume that I make, ummm, leather holsters. Ok, leather holsters it is. I need to have the following, including but not limited to: Some type of facility to work from...(where I live they charge an arm and a leg for property taxes, most of which funds a failing educational system that has been run into the ground...by guess who? Michigan educators and state goverment considered to be Democratic). Unless I use cave-man tools I will no doubt need electricity for lights and to run equipment. I still have a mortgage on the facility so I pay that every month. I need to maintain that facility (mechanical and structural) as well as weekly maintenance (lawn cutting, etc) Unlike some of the homes in Detroit that the people don't care what they look like. Uh, forgot to mention that I heat with natural gas and while we have dialed down, I have added extra insulation, new windows and doors to help control waste. Before I can even begin to consider a project I need to buy supplies. Leather, thread, tools, finish you all know the list goes on and on. BUT WAIT....all of this is not worth a damn if I don't have a customer to provide the goods for...that may require some advertising and promotion. If the customers are not forth coming, my supplies sit on the shelves and gather dust...in the meantime I still pay the above mentioned bills regardless of how much product has been sold. So, I guess the point of this is what the hell do you think pays for this stuff? It comes from PROFIT! Which in my vocabulary is not a dirty word. If I invest, take the risk, I deserve to profit from that risk. After all, that is (was?) the American way!

[electrathon]

One other issue to remember in all of this. There is not a business in the country that has ever paid a single penny in taxes, fees or whatever. 100% of those have all been passed on to the consumers, just in a hidden form.

Hmmmm....let's all take a moment to digest the above quote. Let's assume that I make, ummm, leather holsters. Ok, leather holsters it is. I need to have the following, including but not limited to: Some type of facility to work from...(where I live they charge an arm and a leg for property taxes, most of which funds a failing educational system that has been run into the ground...by guess who? Michigan educators and state goverment considered to be Democratic). Unless I use cave-man tools I will no doubt need electricity for lights and to run equipment. I still have a mortgage on the facility so I pay that every month. I need to maintain that facility (mechanical and structural) as well as weekly maintenance (lawn cutting, etc) Unlike some of the homes in Detroit that the people don't care what they look like. Uh, forgot to mention that I heat with natural gas and while we have dialed down, I have added extra insulation, new windows and doors to help control waste. Before I can even begin to consider a project I need to buy supplies. Leather, thread, tools, finish you all know the list goes on and on. BUT WAIT....all of this is not worth a damn if I don't have a customer to provide the goods for...that may require some advertising and promotion. If the customers are not forth coming, my supplies sit on the shelves and gather dust...in the meantime I still pay the above mentioned bills regardless of how much product has been sold. So, I guess the point of this is what the hell do you think pays for this stuff? It comes from PROFIT! Which in my vocabulary is not a dirty word. If I invest, take the risk, I deserve to profit from that risk. After all, that is (was?) the American way!

I think you are making my point. If you have all the above listed expenses, they are mixed into your total sale price, plus some more so you can pay yourself. If you had few to no expenses, you could easily charge less and make the same amount of prophit. Raise the expenses on you (because you become successfull) and you will need to pass those on to the consumer as well.

I totally agree, you and others should be able to keep the money YOU earn. It is both ethicly and morally wrong to take your money and "redistribute the wealth" so that others can sit at home watching jerry springer stoned out of their mind philosiphising about why the world treats them unfair.

[electrathon]

My apologies for jumping the gun on my minimum wage claim. I should have Googled it.

I based my assumption on the fact that the formula for determining poverty has not changed since the 1960's, but politicians of all stripes don't want to change it because doing so would raise the official poverty numbers on their watch.

Why should the FORMULA change? If data is properly adjusted (inflation/deflation verses income/expenses) then the only reason for adjusting the formula is because the formula is wrong, not to be able to include a larger percent of people to arrive at a preconcieved notion. Example: If the poor are the bottom 15%, then adjusting the formula to include the bottom 20% or the bottom 10% would only be done to "prove" that things are now worse/better than they were before.

The poor do get a lot of help in our country. Remember they are the 40% who eat at the table for free. Some of them do pay in some, but they also use more than they contribute.

I am enjoying the exchange of thoughts/ideas. I am not trying to offend or upset anyone. It is good to see the other side of the island sometimes. Another thought here: I really do not understand the uber rich at all. I do know though that a "living wage" to that segment of society is far above what I would consider wealthy. Just as my middle class earnings is far above rich to the poorest segment of society.

[claybuster101]

My apologies for jumping the gun on my minimum wage claim. I should have Googled it.

I based my assumption on the fact that the formula for determining poverty has not changed since the 1960's, but politicians of all stripes don't want to change it because doing so would raise the official poverty numbers on their watch.

To mitigate my error somewhat, the minimum wage still has not kept up with inflation. In the 1960's and 1970's, the minimum wage as with all things of financial value and whatnot were tied to reality. This I did Google:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/26/arts/how...?pagewanted=all

Further mitigation, if I may: "Adjusted for inflation, [the minimum wage has] declined from more than $6 an hour in the 1960's to $5.25 [in 2001].

I wasn't aware that the minimum wage is set to go to $7.25 this July.

Mea culpa, mea culpa. Thank you for correcting me on the minimum wage, but when the wage is adjusted for inflation I am not far off the mark.

I should also say that I don't hold my views because I think poor people deserve help. I hold them because a stacked deck affects 90 percent of Americans in negative ways. The artificially increased values of real estate the past 20 years is the most recent example. Limited health care for even those who think they are covered is another. I do see race playing a large hand in this, but in very subtle ways.

After World War II, America had to do something at least topically to dismantle apartheid in this country, especially after what NAzi Germany had done to Jews, Poles, and Gypsies. But at the same time the Civil Rights movement took place,financial mechanisms were also being tinkered with to skewer the playing field, which accounts for the fact that 80 percent of Americans are not better off than they were nearly 40 years ago. This has come about by design, not chance.

So congress instituted a plan to balance out a proper number of minorities to be hired into jobs they would not have otherwise qualified for. Affirmative action was still discrimination, just against anyone who is considered (non-black) white. For the longest time the SBA had "special" considerations for females looking to get startup business loans. They (SBA) lowered the standards to allow these applicants to qualify. The US postal service used affirative action to discriminate against white males vs. non white males on test results for becoming a postal carrier (I have first hand knowledge of this).

Since the world changes hands about every 50 years or so, how is it that 80% (using todays population stats or stats from 1969?) are worse off? Worse off in what ways?

And other than Washington bleeding the average American dry, who is the designer of such a scheme? You want to talk racism? I am willing to bet if I applied for a scholarship to get an advanced degree through the NAACP they would turn me down and probably have a good laugh doing it. The other tidbit of Barack O'Trivia that I find disgusting is how he and his "peoples" play up the fact that his mother was white and his daddy was black. That must make the black gene the dominant force in his life. At least he knew who his daddy was. Like a Phoenix rising out of the ashes in less than 4 years we as the American people have the real power to correct the wrong and set the ship back on course. In the time it took to compose this reply, the illegal alien counter said 794 more illegals have inflitrated our sacred borders....drug dealers, prostitutes, gun smugglers, rapists, thieves and several more leather craftsmen....don't you just hate the additional competition.

[electrathon]

... which accounts for the fact that 80 percent of Americans are not better off than they were nearly 40 years ago. This has come about by design, not chance.

I missed this statement earlier. I think this fact is from the same source as the minimum wage thing. In America nearly everyone is far better off than our parents. We have so much more than any generation has ever had before. I am not sure if I personally know anyone who is not better off than their grandparents (40 years = 2 generations). I have heard the stories of the past, they were tough times. I am thankfull that I do not have to work as hard for so little as my father or grandfather did.

[bustedlifter]

Certain compromises can be made. Certainly $50 is not an issue. Mandatory vacation days would be nice but not necessary. With a reasonable working wage, people would be able to take unpaid time off if desired. The situation is never either or, as compromises can always be made.

I was being sarcastic with the $50.00 an hour, but the point I was trying to make is if the government says this is a good minimum to pay someone wouldn't more be even better? One more question, where in the Constitution of the United States is the clause that gives congress ,or the president, the right to tell businesses how much to pay or how much vacation to offer?

[esantoro]

So congress instituted a plan to balance out a proper number of minorities to be hired into jobs they would not have otherwise qualified for. Affirmative action was still discrimination, just against anyone who is considered (non-black) white. For the longest time the SBA had "special" considerations for females looking to get startup business loans. They (SBA) lowered the standards to allow these applicants to qualify. The US postal service used affirative action to discriminate against white males vs. non white males on test results for becoming a postal carrier (I have first hand knowledge of this).

Since the world changes hands about every 50 years or so, how is it that 80% (using todays population stats or stats from 1969?) are worse off? Worse off in what ways?

And other than Washington bleeding the average American dry, who is the designer of such a scheme? You want to talk racism? I am willing to bet if I applied for a scholarship to get an advanced degree through the NAACP they would turn me down and probably have a good laugh doing it. The other tidbit of Barack O'Trivia that I find disgusting is how he and his "peoples" play up the fact that his mother was white and his daddy was black. That must make the black gene the dominant force in his life. At least he knew who his daddy was. Like a Phoenix rising out of the ashes in less than 4 years we as the American people have the real power to correct the wrong and set the ship back on course. In the time it took to compose this reply, the illegal alien counter said 794 more illegals have inflitrated our sacred borders....drug dealers, prostitutes, gun smugglers, rapists, thieves and several more leather craftsmen....don't you just hate the additional competition.

The racism I'm speaking of is much subtler. Affirmative Action was a smoke screen that was used to divert attention from changing economic factors, or it forced the hand to shift economic factors. I'm arguing that these economic shifts were largely influenced by big business manipulating government the last 40 years.

Big business has more to do with allowing illegal immigration than the government has. They need the cheap labor. They play both sides of the coin on this to great dramatic affect.

Question: Would this country run better with less government control and free reign of business? Where is the proof? Exxon? Enron? WorldCom? Adelphia? Arthur Andersen? Global Crossing? IMClone? TYCO?

Are Americans better off today than 30 or forty years ago?

Here's just for the past 8 years:

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/publications...you-better-off/

Here's looking farther back: