Problem with stitches on the back....

[hidepounder]

This is a question for all you sewing machine gurus......

When stitching belts and other lined items, my stitches on top look good, but those in back look bad. I typically use 138/99 with a 14 needle or 99/69 with a 12 needle. I'm using a Artisan 797AB, but I have the same problem, to a lesser degree, with my Adler 205/370. The thread size doesn't seem to make much difference. The back side stitches don't pull up nice and tight like the top does. Some of the lining material I use is thin....2 oz....but is much firmer than the leather on top....I wondered if that was part of the problem. It seems like increasing tension doesn't help the stitches tighten up any. Do I need to use a larger needle to allow the stitch to pull into the leather?

I also have this problem when sewing the skived folded end of a belt where I'm transitioning from 10 oz leather to 5/6 oz leather. Everything looks good until I transition to the lighter leather. I have frequently noticed this on other peoples work as well. My goal is to make the stitches on the botton look as good as those on the top....am I asking too much or using the wrong set-up?

Suggestions?

Thanks,

Bob

[esantoro]

how would you describe the tension on the bobbin thread when you pull the thread out by hand? Does it pull out very freely or a bit snugly or tighter.

I find on my 441, especially when I'm using a variety of leather thicknesses and changing thread brands and sizes, that I must periodically make adjustments to bobbin tension. I want the thread to pull out easily but with a bit of a snug feel in the tension.

ed

This is a question for all you sewing machine gurus......

When stitching belts and other lined items, my stitches on top look good, but those in back look bad. I typically use 138/99 with a 14 needle or 99/69 with a 12 needle. I'm using a Artisan 797AB, but I have the same problem, to a lesser degree, with my Adler 205/370. The thread size doesn't seem to make much difference. The back side stitches don't pull up nice and tight like the top does. Some of the lining material I use is thin....2 oz....but is much firmer than the leather on top....I wondered if that was part of the problem. It seems like increasing tension doesn't help the stitches tighten up any. Do I need to use a larger needle to allow the stitch to pull into the leather?

I also have this problem when sewing the skived folded end of a belt where I'm transitioning from 10 oz leather to 5/6 oz leather. Everything looks good until I transition to the lighter leather. I have frequently noticed this on other peoples work as well. My goal is to make the stitches on the botton look as good as those on the top....am I asking too much or using the wrong set-up?

Suggestions?

Thanks,

Bob

[hidepounder]

They're fairly snug, Ed. I think the problem is the stiff lining material doesn't want to allow the thread and loop back into the hole....? It's doesn't happen with soft material or when the flesh side is exposed.

Bob

[Art]

Hi Bob,

I usually use a #19 with 138/138 and that is smaller than I should and I occasionally break or bend a needle going up or down (usually down) hill. I know it looks great with small holes (that's why I use a 19), but could you be a little snug?

Art

This is a question for all you sewing machine gurus......

When stitching belts and other lined items, my stitches on top look good, but those in back look bad. I typically use 138/99 with a 14 needle or 99/69 with a 12 needle. I'm using a Artisan 797AB, but I have the same problem, to a lesser degree, with my Adler 205/370. The thread size doesn't seem to make much difference. The back side stitches don't pull up nice and tight like the top does. Some of the lining material I use is thin....2 oz....but is much firmer than the leather on top....I wondered if that was part of the problem. It seems like increasing tension doesn't help the stitches tighten up any. Do I need to use a larger needle to allow the stitch to pull into the leather?

I also have this problem when sewing the skived folded end of a belt where I'm transitioning from 10 oz leather to 5/6 oz leather. Everything looks good until I transition to the lighter leather. I have frequently noticed this on other peoples work as well. My goal is to make the stitches on the botton look as good as those on the top....am I asking too much or using the wrong set-up?

Suggestions?

Thanks,

Bob

[rhall]

Hey guys I set up my Cowboy cl 4 this wkend and at first it worked fine on 2x7-8oz then it started pulling the lower thread up to be visable from the top and a tangled mess on the back side!I hope I can get straightened out also,It sounds like atension issue as well.

[Art]

Hi Bob,

Did you get the Video? Hold the loose ends tight for a few stitches, back off the tension a little, don't force the leather, let the machine move it, don't sew over your tails, always complete the stitch, thread tension bar all the way to the top. Assuming you have a Cobra instead of a Cowboy, call Steve, otherwise call Ryan.

If all else fails, I can drop by after work one day, you're down 4 right? I work in Suitland.

Art

Hey guys I set up my Cowboy cl 4 this wkend and at first it worked fine on 2x7-8oz then it started pulling the lower thread up to be visable from the top and a tangled mess on the back side!I hope I can get straightened out also,It sounds like atension issue as well.

[hidepounder]

Thanks Art!

Sounds like I need to go larger! The truth is, when I started sewing, I copied a needle/thread chart out of the Weaver catalog and that's where I came up with those needle sizes. I'll try the larger needle.

Bob

[rhall]

Thanks Art I did not get any video,Is it from Steve?I sure am glad you are there and I'll call Steve.It is a Cobra and it came with a mess of #25 needles and I have been trying some 346 tread.I am very impressed so far , just need to learn to drive the "Beast"LOL

[Art]

Hi Bob,

Ask Steve about the video, he is a great lifeline that comes with every machine. Also, check your thread path and make sure the thread is coming off the spool cleanly and nothing is interfering with it, like being wrapped around the bottom of the thread stand. A little extra tension on top will cause your problem.

Art

Thanks Art I did not get any video,Is it from Steve?I sure am glad you are there and I'll call Steve.It is a Cobra and it came with a mess of #25 needles and I have been trying some 346 tread.I am very impressed so far , just need to learn to drive the "Beast"LOL

[Bree]

Bob...

I wonder if this isn't a problem that is unavoidable with any sewing machine sewing leather. If you think about what is happening there is a difference between the top and bottom because of what the needle is doing. On the top it punches a hole going down or into the leather. The edges of the hole are smooth and well defined. The thread looks good coming out or going into the hole.

On the bottom it's a different ball game. The needle punches through and pushes the leather OUT versus IN. The edge of the hole is more ragged. It's like the difference between a bullet going through front and back. The back is a lot messier so it won't ever look as good.

That's my thought on it. I have the same problem and could never get tension to fix it. You don't see the problem when sewing fabric because the needle is not cutting and pushing through, it is finding an opening in the warp and woof of the fabric... parting it.

[steveh]

Bob,

I believe that you trench your work for the top stitch, so that helps the appearence of the top considerably.what I will do on the bottom just before I sew, is lightly moisten the back side, I believe that the soften leather on the bottom helps your thread pull into the leather, when the stitch is pulled tight. I do not have problems with the feed dog on the bottom side leaving marks..also before I sew I spray aresol silcon lube on the top spool , and on the bobbin as well.I do know that needle size will effect the bottom stitch, try going up a needle size and check the results. reguarding skiving down the thickness for belts, I think this is a common problem, but I think your machine should be able to sew 5-6 oz without the stitches pullin thru.

[hidepounder]

Bob...

I wonder if this isn't a problem that is unavoidable with any sewing machine sewing leather. If you think about what is happening there is a difference between the top and bottom because of what the needle is doing. On the top it punches a hole going down or into the leather. The edges of the hole are smooth and well defined. The thread looks good coming out or going into the hole.

On the bottom it's a different ball game. The needle punches through and pushes the leather OUT versus IN. The edge of the hole is more ragged. It's like the difference between a bullet going through front and back. The back is a lot messier so it won't ever look as good.

That's my thought on it. I have the same problem and could never get tension to fix it. You don't see the problem when sewing fabric because the needle is not cutting and pushing through, it is finding an opening in the warp and woof of the fabric... parting it.

Bree...you may be right! What you are describing is exactly what I am seeing! One of our members told me the exact same thing in a PM. Like you say, it doesn't happen with soft leather.

Thanks!

Bob

Bob,

I believe that you trench your work for the top stitch, so that helps the appearence of the top considerably.what I will do on the bottom just before I sew, is lightly moisten the back side, I believe that the soften leather on the bottom helps your thread pull into the leather, when the stitch is pulled tight. I do not have problems with the feed dog on the bottom side leaving marks..also before I sew I spray aresol silcon lube on the top spool , and on the bobbin as well.I do know that needle size will effect the bottom stitch, try going up a needle size and check the results. reguarding skiving down the thickness for belts, I think this is a common problem, but I think your machine should be able to sew 5-6 oz without the stitches pullin thru.

Steve,

Wetting the leather is a really good idea! I'm going to give that a try!

Thanks,

Bob

[HarryB]

Hey Pounder, glancing through the posts I didn't see anything about what kind of presser foot or bottom plate you are using. When I switch to my stirrup plate on my Adler, I have to crank the top tension way up because the feeder foot on the bottom is disengaged. Don't know what the type lining leather would have to do with it. My White thread would knot up on me and skip stitches. I switched to a needle sizee one larger and it solved that problem. Maybe this will help.

[Go2Tex]

Well, I hope ya'll get this problem solved because it is one that has been bothering me ever since I started. I've tried running an overstitcher over the stitches on the backside but unless I have it gouged, it's dang hard to keep it on the stitches. I've tried pounding them down flat and that didn't work much either.

[hidepounder]

Hey Pounder, glancing through the posts I didn't see anything about what kind of presser foot or bottom plate you are using. When I switch to my stirrup plate on my Adler, I have to crank the top tension way up because the feeder foot on the bottom is disengaged. Don't know what the type lining leather would have to do with it. My White thread would knot up on me and skip stitches. I switched to a needle sizee one larger and it solved that problem. Maybe this will help.

Thanks Harry....I'm definitely going to experiment with larger needles.

Bob

Well, I hope ya'll get this problem solved because it is one that has been bothering me ever since I started. I've tried running an overstitcher over the stitches on the backside but unless I have it gouged, it's dang hard to keep it on the stitches. I've tried pounding them down flat and that didn't work much either.

Brent,

I was surprised to find out hoe many of us have been putting up with this problem. I'll let you know if I get any significant improvements.

Bob

[Shorts]

Interesting.

I think Bree nailed it on the 'how'. I too tried the overstitch wheel but its a wash. I've since learn to just leave it. Fortunately, dye hides a lot of sins, oddly enough. I have noticed that when I wet mold my holster after stitching the leather does give a bit and sort of 'puckers up' the stitch. Certainly not a nice look like the front, but it doesn't look like a shark took a bite out of it.

Wetting the leather sounds interesting and should allow the stitch to set. I think my concern would be getting the imprint of the dealy-ma-bob there underneath. Certainly worth trying out.

Good luck getting it where you want it.

[esantoro]

I don't know if this is part of the problem or not. If you are using glue to prep for stitching, what kind of glue are you using. Try some scrap leather and lining and stitch without glue just to see if you notice a difference.

Also try stitching some scraps with a very loose tension on the bobbin thread and see what happens.

ed

[hidepounder]

Interesting.

I think Bree nailed it on the 'how'. I too tried the overstitch wheel but its a wash. I've since learn to just leave it. Fortunately, dye hides a lot of sins, oddly enough. I have noticed that when I wet mold my holster after stitching the leather does give a bit and sort of 'puckers up' the stitch. Certainly not a nice look like the front, but it doesn't look like a shark took a bite out of it.

Wetting the leather sounds interesting and should allow the stitch to set. I think my concern would be getting the imprint of the dealy-ma-bob there underneath. Certainly worth trying out.

Good luck getting it where you want it.

If that would work Monica, I'll do what I have to, to rub it out...I wouldn't mind that too much. I'm gonna try it on the next one.

Bob

I don't know if this is part of the problem or not. If you are using glue to prep for stitching, what kind of glue are you using. Try some scrap leather and lining and stitch without glue just to see if you notice a difference.

Also try stitching some scraps with a very loose tension on the bobbin thread and see what happens.

ed

Thanks Ed,

Glue doesn't seem to make any difference. Wish it did....would be an easy fix!

Bob

[Go2Tex]

Something worth trying on the Artisan 3000..... I have not been able to get enough bobbin tension since I first bought my machine. Finally I tried using a smaller screw that holds the tension spring and was able to tighten the bobbin thread down as much as I want. Now I get nice tight stitches. Of course, now I have problems with the stitch length varying anywhere from 6-9 per inch on one strap!

Something else I did recently that I almost wish I hadn't. I finally ground the groover off of the center groover. It doesn't make that damn mark anymore, but I think I liked the look of the stitches better before and it seemed to help keep the needle lined up when back stitching. And, a new part costs $95! Too bad they can't come up with a center groover that you could just flip up when starting your stitch and those tight turns.

[neelsaddlery]

This is a question for all you sewing machine gurus......

When stitching belts and other lined items, my stitches on top look good, but those in back look bad. I typically use 138/99 with a 14 needle or 99/69 with a 12 needle. I'm using a Artisan 797AB, but I have the same problem, to a lesser degree, with my Adler 205/370. The thread size doesn't seem to make much difference. The back side stitches don't pull up nice and tight like the top does. Some of the lining material I use is thin....2 oz....but is much firmer than the leather on top....I wondered if that was part of the problem. It seems like increasing tension doesn't help the stitches tighten up any. Do I need to use a larger needle to allow the stitch to pull into the leather?

I also have this problem when sewing the skived folded end of a belt where I'm transitioning from 10 oz leather to 5/6 oz leather. Everything looks good until I transition to the lighter leather. I have frequently noticed this on other peoples work as well. My goal is to make the stitches on the botton look as good as those on the top....am I asking too much or using the wrong set-up?

Suggestions?

Thanks,

Bob

If you are using a size 12 or 14 needle with a size 138/99 thread, the needle is way too small for the thread. If you go "by the book" with a 138 thread, you should use a size 22 needle. I would try a size 22 needle and see if you notice a difference. If the thread is coming up to the top side of the material after switching to the 22 needle, the you can switch to a 138 both top and bottom.

Hope this is of some help to you.