Do you notice the difference?

[Shorts]

To make the dye step easier on myself I've been dyeing the inside of the holster before I stitch it up. Sometimes I dye the entire thing if I want white stitching.

I've noticed that the Angelus dye likes to make the leather stiff which makes the wet molding process a bit more difficult. I would suppose its due to the alcohol base of the dye.

Anyone else noticed this?

I don't like not getting crisp clean easy boning lines but I like the firm leather. Sure I could easily go back to dyeing entirely after molding. I was just curious if anyone's noticed differences in how their leather acts to different dyes.

[carljc72]

I think Fiebings alcohol based dyes stiffen the leather. I try not to dye the whole thing unless I absolutely have to. I do just what you said. I only dye the inside before stitching.

Carl

[troop]

on my holsters i used to just dye the inside, but then i use a support piece on the back with kydex in the middle to stiffen the thumb break area. if i didn't dye the underneath of that support piece the contact cement would act as a block around it, just along the edge. it kinda looked crappy so now i dye the whole thing.

i was using the eco-flo junk and would have to dye again after casing and molding. i just got feibings and am using it for the first time on two holsters that are drying right now. so far i like it.

hey shorts i was thinking of getting some rubber foam to press my holsters into the shape of the gun, was wondering if you have tried that or not. your holsters look really good. are you still molding by hand?

[DCKNIVES]

I have always dyed and sealed the inside of my holsters and sheaths prior to gluing and stitching.It's the only way I know of to get an even coat on all the way to the bottom.Dave

[troop]

hey dave, does sealing the inside prior to casing make it difficult to mold to the gun? i tried that once and could not get a good mold.

[brinyar]

I have not noticed any difference in stiffness between Feibings or Angelus, but also think they make the molding and boning process different than using plain leather. I dye all the pieces of a holster before assembly and think the added stiffness is good. If you experiment with wetting the holster before you mold I think you will find that certain point of saturation that will allow you to mold it well and get crisp boning lines. I use W&C leather, though, so I don't know if there would be much difference with HO.

[Leerwerker]

The stiffness from the dye is due to the dye sticking the leather fibers together - when the alcohol evaporates, the dye is like a glue between the fibers.

Except the dye is not a permanent glue and those bonds can easily be broken just by bending the leather a few times.

If you never manipulate the leather, it will remain stiff.

So to wet form after dyeing, simply wet it and bend it a few times.

In fact, mask makers in Italy teaches that you really have to bend and work the leather back and forth many times and get it as soft as velvet fabric, before you mold it into one of those Commedia del Arte masks. [Not necessary with holsters!]

[Shorts]

hey shorts i was thinking of getting some rubber foam to press my holsters into the shape of the gun, was wondering if you have tried that or not. your holsters look really good. are you still molding by hand?

I haven't grabbed gum pads yet and still molding by hand. Because if I do buy gum pads I'll need to buy a new hydraulic press setup. And you know, buying toys, I mean tools gets out of hand, spending money left and right It's on my list though. Good news is my garage is almost close to "unpacked" from the move so I can start getting it setup like I want it.

I have not noticed any difference in stiffness between Feibings or Angelus, but also think they make the molding and boning process different than using plain leather. I dye all the pieces of a holster before assembly and think the added stiffness is good. If you experiment with wetting the holster before you mold I think you will find that certain point of saturation that will allow you to mold it well and get crisp boning lines. I use W&C leather, though, so I don't know if there would be much difference with HO.

I'll toy with the saturation a bit more. The dye almost acts like a moisture repellent so I may need to let the water do its magic for a little longer than I have been.

On a non-dyed piece of HO, it gets pliable very quick when wet and molds superbly. I guess that's why I've noticed the change.

The stiffness from the dye is due to the dye sticking the leather fibers together - when the alcohol evaporates, the dye is like a glue between the fibers.

Except the dye is not a permanent glue and those bonds can easily be broken just by bending the leather a few times.

If you never manipulate the leather, it will remain stiff.

So to wet form after dyeing, simply wet it and bend it a few times.

In fact, mask makers in Italy teaches that you really have to bend and work the leather back and forth many times and get it as soft as velvet fabric, before you mold it into one of those Commedia del Arte masks. [Not necessary with holsters!]

Very interesting, a glue-ish behavior.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Shorts

[Lobo]

The alcohol certainly makes a difference. Firmness of the formed piece is noticably increased, comparable to forced drying using heat to induce evaporation. There is definitely a difference, but I think I've found a way to utilize it to some advantage.

For the past several months I have been immersion dying as a means of keeping up production times. I've been using Fiebings spirit-based dyes diluted about 50% with isopropyl alcohol. Color saturation is very good. Black usually requires just a quick exterior coat of dye prior to final finishing. Browns require attention to the immersion time to achieve desired shadings.

This solution evaporates out quite quickly (under an hour from dunking the holster in the dye to dry-to-the-touch stage). At first I was forming and boning prior to dying, but have found that I can simply dunk the holster quickly, set it aside for 20 to 40 minutes, then form and bone using the residual alcohol for the required moisture. If it gets to a point where my boning tools start dragging on the leather, I've found that a quick surface swabbing with plain isopropyl alcohol returns it to the ideal state where the tool glides easily.

The alcohol has fully evaporated out and the piece is bone-dry within a few hours, so final finishing processes can be started same day if necessary.

Usually I have cut all of my work at one time (doing 8 to 12 items in a production batch), then sew everything at one time, dress all edges, then dye everything, then form everything, then burnish everything, then oil everything, then apply final finishes to everything. The usually means a 5-day production cycle, with the overnight periods permitting drying, etc. Recently, I made a mistake on one order (forgot to install a lining, as ordered), and needed to get the piece to the customer. So, I cut another one, cemented in the lining, sewed it up, dyed it and formed it in the morning, then oiled it that afternoon, let the oil settle overnight and finished it out the next morning and had it ready to ship in 48 hours (after the acrylic had cured out overnight). Made the customer happy (and the "mistake" also sold within a week).

I am confident that I can do a batch of a dozen holsters in a 3-day cycle, if the need arises.

[okie44]

I agree with Lobo on the alcohol. I haven't tried thinning my dye with alcohol yet, but I do all the molding and boning using alcohol instead of water. It won't rust a blued gun, dries much faster, and leaves the leather firmer. I'm not doing as many holsters as you all are, but I'm impatient. Ha!

[DCKNIVES]

hey dave, does sealing the inside prior to casing make it difficult to mold to the gun? i tried that once and could not get a good mold.

I don't mold quite as tightly as most of you since the majority of my holsters are fully inlaid.But after tooling and the inlay, I then wet the holster again and form it, then dye and finish the inside.Dave