Finishing Edges

[hidepounder]

Bob, I've yet to get any machinery (belt sanders etc), so could I trouble you for some tips on hand sanding? What type sandpaper is best? How does one know when the leathers are even?

Just starting out, and I'm as green as a shamrock. Sorry if this is trouble.

God Bless, Ray

Hi Ray,

If you are going to sand by hand, I would recommend about a 150 to 250 grit sandpaper. It is good to sand in multiple grits.....going from 150 to maybe 600 and finally a 1000, however that requires a lot of work and the difference between sanding may not be three times as good. That is somehting you will have to determine for yourself after a little experimenting. If I am doing a show piece I pull out all the stops and sand with several different grits, however I don't do that on a normal piece. If you don't want to sand by hand, you can use one of those small sanding drums they sell in hardware stores and use it in a drill or dremel.

When we talk about the leathers being even we are referring to the two surfaces finishing on the same plane. There is no step or bump between layers and the two pieces are smooth and feel like one piece when you're finished.

Hope this helps....

Bobby

[LilRay]

Hi Ray,

If you are going to sand by hand, I would recommend about a 150 to 250 grit sandpaper. It is good to sand in multiple grits.....going from 150 to maybe 600 and finally a 1000, however that requires a lot of work and the difference between sanding may not be three times as good. That is somehting you will have to determine for yourself after a little experimenting. If I am doing a show piece I pull out all the stops and sand with several different grits, however I don't do that on a normal piece. If you don't want to sand by hand, you can use one of those small sanding drums they sell in hardware stores and use it in a drill or dremel.

When we talk about the leathers being even we are referring to the two surfaces finishing on the same plane. There is no step or bump between layers and the two pieces are smooth and feel like one piece when you're finished.

Hope this helps....

Bobby

Absolutely Bobby!

Thanks for your help and advice.

God Bless, Ray

[rmr]

Hi Bob

I have been reading through your recommendations on burnishing edges. Thanks for all the great info.

One question I have with regards to the burnishing wheel that you use to wrap the canvas around. Are you using one of the commercial wheels made to hold sanpaper drums- or is it a wood one?? Also is it a flat cylinder or did you create a groove all the way around the wheel like the commercial burnishing wheel that are sold in Weavers catalog??

Thansk Bob R

[hidepounder]

Hi Bob

I have been reading through your recommendations on burnishing edges. Thanks for all the great info.

One question I have with regards to the burnishing wheel that you use to wrap the canvas around. Are you using one of the commercial wheels made to hold sanpaper drums- or is it a wood one?? Also is it a flat cylinder or did you create a groove all the way around the wheel like the commercial burnishing wheel that are sold in Weavers catalog??

Thansk Bob R

Bob, I wrapped the cocobolo wood wheel with the grooves in it that came with my Weaver machine.

Bobby

[Hennessy]

Bob, I wrapped the cocobolo wood wheel with the grooves in it that came with my Weaver machine.

Bobby

bob, i followed this thread thru to end and haven't seen this slicking trick mentioned,so 'ere goes' ! a really good production mex hand n friend showed me this,i use it a lot.get a square piece of fake sheepskin cut the hair half off with scissors.wet it good, hair side slide edge along for a foot then finger tip along edge one way forward then back find th nap which way does it lay, wipe one way once its found.a foot at a time,find th nap, wet edge, then turn fake skin over and use coarse cloth back to slick one way keep edge wet,nap will lay down slick,after entire length is done slick edge with a bar of saddle soap then burnishwith rag or stick,then dye n finish further if desired adios pete

[FLYNN]

Hi, I'm new to thisForum

Can anybody help me to tell me how to make a clear edge like this?? It seems like no burn edge..

Thanks before Guys

Edited May 24, 2011 by FLYNN

[hidepounder]

Flynn,

The process for an undyed edge (like your photo) is exactly the same except you eliminate the "dye" step.

Bobby

[FLYNN]

Flynn,

The process for an undyed edge (like your photo) is exactly the same except you eliminate the "dye" step.

Bobby

Thanks Bobby

I'll try to do it..

I'm glad I found this forum

btw what is the best for clear edge like above??

Gum Tragacanth

Beeswax

Beeswax+Parrafin (can you tell me how to mix them and the best balance?50:50?)

or a

Saddle soap

Edited May 25, 2011 by FLYNN

[FLYNN]

Extras Question

btw what is the best for clear edge like above??

Gum Tragacanth

Beeswax

Beeswax+Parrafin (can you tell me how to mix them and the best balance?50:50?)

or a

Saddle soap

And where I can find "I use canvas wrapped around a motorized wood burnishing wheel which speeds up the process."

Will it make the edge darker? I really need a clear burnish edge like the picture above

And the neat-lac, can replaceable with saddle-lac from Fiebing?

what is the use of these?

Thank You very much

[hidepounder]

There is a brand new product out that I tested in my class for the first time last week. It is being distributed through Sheridan Leather Outfitters in Sheridan, WY (888.803.3030 ask for Vandy or Luke). I was very impressed with the results we achieved when we tested it in my class. The product is call Quik Slik. It is a clear slicking agent which is applied directly to a dry edged piece of leather which is then vigorously burnished with a heavy piece of cotton canvas. The result is a xcellent glossy polished edge! I preferr this product to Gum Trag, bees wax or Casing Solution because it can be dyed or oiled through. I chose to polish the edge with parafin and was very pleased.Gum Trag, Casing Solution, and bees wax are all good products to use as slicking agents for burnishing. Their only limitation is that they cannot be dyed through. Additionally there is absolutely no reason not to use saddle soap to produce a clear polished edge.

The burnishing machine that I use is available through Weaver Leather and Bielers Manufacturing. I would think they cost in excess of $500 and have to modified to use them the way that I do. However, you do not have make those kind of purchases to be able to produce professional quality edges. This can all be done very nicely by hand. If you do not have access to the required materials feel free to contact me. I have Cocobolo rubsticks made by Ed the BearMan, and 18 oz cotton duck burnishing mitts available which were left over from my classes at Sheridan. I also have edge dye pens and swivel knife strops available as well.

Hope this helps!

Bobby

hidepounder@cox.net

Edited May 25, 2011 by hidepounder

[rjowais]

Incredible work!

Thanks a lot for the valuable guide, a craftsman who shares his knowledge initiates a way that keeps a craft moving forward towards advancement!!!

[Mijo]

Hidepounder, thank you for sharing your technique as it's made a huge difference in the edges for the harness and leashes that I make. I do have a couple of questions though;

1. Does it make a difference if I bevel the edges before I sand?
2. In one of your responses to a question within this thread you mention that sanding should be done with mulitple grits, if I'm only going to be sanding with one grit what do you recommend (150 - 250)?
3. I use latigo and bridle leather that is already dyed, is there anything that I should be doing differently than what is listed in your original post?

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

Mijo

[hidepounder]

Hidepounder, thank you for sharing your technique as it's made a huge difference in the edges for the harness and leashes that I make. I do have a couple of questions though;

1. Does it make a difference if I bevel the edges before I sand?
2. In one of your responses to a question within this thread you mention that sanding should be done with mulitple grits, if I'm only going to be sanding with one grit what do you recommend (150 - 250)?
3. I use latigo and bridle leather that is already dyed, is there anything that I should be doing differently than what is listed in your original post?

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

Mijo

Hi Mijo,

For me the biggest reason to sand is to insure that two oieces glued together are perfectly smooth on the edge. Sanding also removes any residual glue that might be left on the edge. After I sand the glued edge, then I use my edger. If I have a single piece of leather I usually sand it also before I do my edging, just to insure that the edge is nice and smooth. I usually won't sand in multiple stages unless I am making a show piece. For me, sanding with multiple grits only makes a small difference and I'm not sure it is worth the effort on anything other than a show piece. Others will disagree with me and insist that sanding with multiple grits makes a big difference. I believe it all depends on the process you use and your sequence. I won't argue because there are a lot of different ways to skin a cat. My method is not necessarily the best method...it's just my method and it's an old and common one. When I sand I use a stationary belt sander with about a 150 grit belt that is fairly worn out. So I would think anything from 150 to 250 would be fine. If you are using a 600 grit belt you will probably burn the leather. If you are sanding with a dremmel I would think you would want a medium grit drum and I would error on the finer side rather than the coarse side. There is no real need to change methods on the latigo or bridle leather. However, just FYI, Gum Trag does a really good job on latigo as a slicking agent. Don't use it if you are going to dye the edges, but if they are to remain natural it works well. Also, I have been trying a new product from Sheridan Leather Outfitters called Quik Slik. It works pretty well and replaces the glycerine bar soap and the wetting of the edges, making it a little faster to use. The end result is pretty darned good. Also Greg Gomersall distributes a product which he uses as a slicking agent and it works well also. However, like Gum Trag, it is hard to dye through. I like it on latigo also!

Hope this helps....

Bobby

Edited July 11, 2011 by hidepounder

[Mijo]

Hidepounder - I've been using your posted techique since i found it and up until this point i've been using gum trag in place of saddle soap. well i'm almost out of the eco flo gum trag and decided to give saddle soap a go to see if there was any difference. In addition to fiebings saddle soap paste I ordered a couple of bars of their glycerin soap, b/c i've been using a natural plant based 100% glycerin bar soap.

Well I received the package with the fiebing's glycerin and saddle soap last week and when i looked on the instructions on the glycerin bar soap I couldn't help notice that it stated that users should wet the leather, apply the glycerin soap and then let the soap dry on the leather before wiping it off. When I finish edges should I be allowing the glycerin soap to dry in Step 3, of your posted instructions, before I apply the saddle soap in Step 4? I haven't been allowing the glycerin soap to dry and have been apply the gum trag to the glycerin soap while it's still wet.

[hidepounder]

Hidepounder - I've been using your posted techique since i found it and up until this point i've been using gum trag in place of saddle soap. well i'm almost out of the eco flo gum trag and decided to give saddle soap a go to see if there was any difference. In addition to fiebings saddle soap paste I ordered a couple of bars of their glycerin soap, b/c i've been using a natural plant based 100% glycerin bar soap.

Well I received the package with the fiebing's glycerin and saddle soap last week and when i looked on the instructions on the glycerin bar soap I couldn't help notice that it stated that users should wet the leather, apply the glycerin soap and then let the soap dry on the leather before wiping it off. When I finish edges should I be allowing the glycerin soap to dry in Step 3, of your posted instructions, before I apply the saddle soap in Step 4? I haven't been allowing the glycerin soap to dry and have been apply the gum trag to the glycerin soap while it's still wet.

Mijo.....I do not wait for the glycerin bar soap to dry before I burnish. Remember....we are using the glycerine bar as a "slicking" agent as opposed to what it was designed to be used for...therefore the instructions really don't apply. Also, when I add paste soap to my canvas, it is for the purpose of providing lubrication to the canvas so that I don't over burnish creating rough spots. I can't tell you why, but for some reason using just the glycerine bar on both the leather edge and the canvas, or using the paste soap only, just doesn't produce as good a result for me as using both. However, I think it is very common for a lot of makers to use paste only and they are content with the result. I probably go overboard....I think that's just my nature.....but I think my edges will stack up to most maker's results. In my opinion there is no real reason to apply gum trag if you've gone through the process of burnishing with saddle soap. After all, the gum trag is just used as a slicking agent like the saddle soap is, but it won't hurt a thing to use it. Maybe it will provide a longer lasting finish....I don't know.....I only use it on latigo where it does an excellent job.

Hope this helps.....

Bobby

[Mijo]

Mijo.....I do not wait for the glycerin bar soap to dry before I burnish. Remember....we are using the glycerine bar as a "slicking" agent as opposed to what it was designed to be used for...therefore the instructions really don't apply. Also, when I add paste soap to my canvas, it is for the purpose of providing lubrication to the canvas so that I don't over burnish creating rough spots. I can't tell you why, but for some reason using just the glycerine bar on both the leather edge and the canvas, or using the paste soap only, just doesn't produce as good a result for me as using both. However, I think it is very common for a lot of makers to use paste only and they are content with the result. I probably go overboard....I think that's just my nature.....but I think my edges will stack up to most maker's results. In my opinion there is no real reason to apply gum trag if you've gone through the process of burnishing with saddle soap. After all, the gum trag is just used as a slicking agent like the saddle soap is, but it won't hurt a thing to use it. Maybe it will provide a longer lasting finish....I don't know.....I only use it on latigo where it does an excellent job.

Hope this helps.....

Bobby

Hidepounder - Thanks for the clarification, that's exactly what I was thinking (leaving the glycerin soap wet) but I just wanted to be sure. I use mainly latigo leather so I'm curious to see if my results differ when I substitute the saddle soap paste for gum trag.

[leathervan]

Bob: Very helpful information. Thanks for posting it. A question on #7: For the final finish arew there other things besides Neat-Lac that can be used?

[hidepounder]

Bob: Very helpful information. Thanks for posting it. A question on #7: For the final finish arew there other things besides Neat-Lac that can be used?

Absolutely. Use whatever finish you prefer. I just happen to be a NeatLac fanatic. It is my favorite finish. If you prefer use, Tan Kote , Resolene, Saddle Lac, whatever.

Bobby

[leathervan]

Bob: one more question: Is there something other than glycerin bar soap that I can use for step #3? I know some grocery and health stores have glycerin soap but maybe the Fiebings is a different kind.

[hidepounder]

Bob: one more question: Is there something other than glycerin bar soap that I can use for step #3? I know some grocery and health stores have glycerin soap but maybe the Fiebings is a different kind.

I don' think I can answer that question. You can use gum trag, bees wax or Casing Solution from LSI, but they all are difficult to dye through. A new product on the market that works pretty well is Quik Slik which is carried by Luke & Vandy at Sheridan Leather Outfitters 307.674.6679. It is a slicking agent and takes the place of wetting the leather and applying saddle soap. But if you are looking for a different source for glycerine soap, I can't help you. The thing to remember is that edges can be burnished by just using water, a piece of canvas and elbow grease. What I have tried to provide in my instructions is what works best for me. But it is only one of many methods. I just haven't been able to achieve superior results with the other methods I've tried. I'm always looking however and I'm not above jumping ship if I can find a better mouse trap!

[Nighthawk]

Something I've recently discovered is the existence of microfleece at Home Depot. It's a soft blue cloth. When I apply the parafin to the edges, I polish it with the microfleece, and it really mellows the look- gives it a beautiful glow! I also have started using it as a buffing cloth for the surface. It's made a small, subtle difference, but one that I really like.

[cityofthesouth]

First post, looooong time lurker, both as a member and before. Just wanted to say thanks to Bob for this thread because it's turned edging FROM an annoying frustrating endeavor into something that isn't really difficult and looks nice. I'll post some pictures of my holsters and stuff for better reference but I have a question about edging and since this thread has been going for years I hope it's ok to dig it up after a month. I've been trying to get edges that aren't high gloss but at the moment, they don't last long. I guess my question is about the wax and finish. Do these products serve to preserve the edge more than anything? I haven't even tried using the wax and I wondered if the wax is that step that will make my edges last longer, but I noticed that it also brings on the shine. What I've been doing is using a bit of antler with moist edges until it gets snappy and very shiny. I don't like the shiny and so then I go in with the saddle soap and denim and canvas and rub rub rub, bringing in the antler now and again to shape things up, and stopping when I have more of a matte finish. When I'm done it's exactly what I want and is super smooth feeling. But my holsters see some IDPA time, they get some abuse but, it doesn't seem like it takes very MUCH abuse to start roughing my edges up. I'm not talking much roughing, but over time, say a year, they're pretty furry again and within just a few days of wearing a belt, the highest wear areas are rougher than I like. I am hoping that wax might add some wear to my edges and that I can still find away to cut the gloss. Any thoughts?

Edited December 16, 2011 by cityofthesouth

[cityofthesouth]

OK here are some examples. With the Mag carrier you can see it's unused and the edges are what I'm shooting for. Not a lot of gloss but some, blocky edges rather than rounded, etc. Where the leather is 3 pieces thick always comes out real nice since it is so hard. Then you see my holster. This stuff was made together as a matching set with a belt and I'll have a light carrier and AR mag carrier too. The second image shows an edge that is still good, but I've had this holster out for a shooting and "break in" period - lots of reholstering (and you can see the rough edges at the top). So in the third image you can see where the gun barrel hits on reholster, stuff like that. I might be asking for too much but my edges just seem a little dry and not quite tough enough. Hope this helps. I'm going to the store to find some wax. Since this is a rig for myself I do lots of experimenting - I can live with my own mistakes. (edit: forgot to resize my images)

Edited December 17, 2011 by cityofthesouth

[qlthreadhead]

hey Bob,

I've been perusing a few threads after trying out your method for finishing the edges on my work -- exactly what dye are you using? I know you prefer the spirit based dyes..... I've been trying to get my edges finished using fiebing's professional oil dye (which is what I used to dye the leather to begin with) and haven't gotten satisfying results.....I'm going to try more coats of the dye for now but can you recommend a specific dye for this? Also -- I was looking through the fiebing's edge finishing offerings -- will this work? http://shop.fiebing.com/products/category/Edge+Dye/3267.0.1.1.72706.72784.72785.0.0

thanks for your help on this!

-- beka

[hidepounder]

hey Bob,

I've been perusing a few threads after trying out your method for finishing the edges on my work -- exactly what dye are you using? I know you prefer the spirit based dyes..... I've been trying to get my edges finished using fiebing's professional oil dye (which is what I used to dye the leather to begin with) and haven't gotten satisfying results.....I'm going to try more coats of the dye for now but can you recommend a specific dye for this? Also -- I was looking through the fiebing's edge finishing offerings -- will this work? http://shop.fiebing....72784.72785.0.0

thanks for your help on this!

-- beka

Hi Beka,

I only use Fiebings spirit based ( alcohol) dye on my edges. It penetrates quickly and dries quickly as well. I have never used an oil based dye on my edges but the feedback I get indicates that it doesn't penetrate as well. I know it takes a lot longer to dry, also, which is problematic because of the likelihood of picking up dye on your hands and transferring it on the surface which will ruin the piece.

The edge dye that Fiebings makes is very thick and slow to penetate. I don't use it.

Hope this helps....

Bobby