wet leather

[dustin29]

If my leather is too wet what will happen to my swivel knife cuts? I cased my leather overnight in a ziploc bag. I pulled it out and let it sit for about an hour or so. I think maybe I did not have enough patience. Somebody please help before I ruin the whole wallet back.

[King's X]

My experience only.

Your cut rigids will curl or push up. There might be some what appears to be white. I believe what it is is the water being pushed to the side as you cut. Look down into the cut (depth) and check the color. If it is white, that might also be an indicator.

Try a hair dryer. Next time place a small piece of leather with your casing leather. You can use that as your practice piece for the swivel knife practice. That should give you a good indicator as to what status your leather is in.

Good luck

[dustin29]

My experience only.

Your cut rigids will curl or push up. There might be some what appears to be white. I believe what it is is the water being pushed to the side as you cut. Look down into the cut (depth) and check the color. If it is white, that might also be an indicator.

Try a hair dryer. Next time place a small piece of leather with your casing leather. You can use that as your practice piece for the swivel knife practice. That should give you a good indicator as to what status your leather is in.

Good luck

Thats exactly what my cuts are doing. I will definately put a small piece of practice leather in with my project leather next time. That is a great idea thanks a bunch.

[King's X]

I took a tip from Rawhide here and Peter Main. I don't know how many other people are doing it but I like it so far. I went to bed bat and beyond and purchased two glass cutting boards (different sizes). I went my leather projects and place them on my granite (grain up) and place the glass on top. I allow it to sit like that over night. About 10 mins ago, I took off the glass and now I am letting it sit. I will go up there after dinner and start my pattern transfer. I will cut it with the swivel knife and then tape it up before I start my tooling.

Oh yea, I will try out my new "TimDidIt" slicker. Thanks TimD. The slicker, from what I read will cause the grain fibers to tighten up and compress. We'll see. I am always open to trying something new.

Well, gotta eat because I have a long night. If I don't get it done, I will place the glass back on top and start again tomorrow after putting some water on the ends all around.

Good luck

[dustin29]

I took a tip from Rawhide here and Peter Main. I don't know how many other people are doing it but I like it so far. I went to bed bat and beyond and purchased two glass cutting boards (different sizes). I went my leather projects and place them on my granite (grain up) and place the glass on top. I allow it to sit like that over night. About 10 mins ago, I took off the glass and now I am letting it sit. I will go up there after dinner and start my pattern transfer. I will cut it with the swivel knife and then tape it up before I start my tooling.

Oh yea, I will try out my new "TimDidIt" slicker. Thanks TimD. The slicker, from what I read will cause the grain fibers to tighten up and compress. We'll see. I am always open to trying something new.

Well, gotta eat because I have a long night. If I don't get it done, I will place the glass back on top and start again tomorrow after putting some water on the ends all around.

Good luck

What do you mean by putting water on the ends all around, and what does this do? Im not sure if I dare to go to bed, bath, and beyond my wife would probably put us in the poor house!

[TwinOaks]

Covering with glass is just a way to prevent the leather from fully drying out. Water vapor doesn't pass through glass, y' know?

While it's 'under glass', only the edges are susceptible to drying. Once the glass is removed, the leather begins drying as it normally would. A quick search for "casing leather" should yield useful info.

[PaganBear]

so another question on that.... is there a benefit?

Not that im doing it right cause one is always learning, but I generally have no problem with it drying out between work sessions cause then I re-wet it and I know exactly how much re-wetting i did.

Yes I am one of those folks who has no idea how to tell moisture content. I first learned simply by color and feel temperature and I still fumble my way with that method.

[hidepounder]

If my leather is too wet what will happen to my swivel knife cuts? I cased my leather overnight in a ziploc bag. I pulled it out and let it sit for about an hour or so. I think maybe I did not have enough patience. Somebody please help before I ruin the whole wallet back.

Dustin,

I case a little differently. I emerse my leather in water....I just run it thru a pan of water or fill the sink a couple inches deep and fairly slowly dip the leather.....starting at one and run it thru the water....I want to see bubbles coming out of the leather. I then slick the leather to eliminate some of the stretch and compact the surface fibers. I then set the leather aside until it's natural color begins to return.....I like the color to be about halfway between completely wet and dry. I then seal the leather in a plastic bag and let it set for 24 hours (or at least overnight). When I remove the leather from the plastic bag I expect it to have returned almost to it's natural color. I then slick it again and cement it onto my backer board. You can use just plain old water or one of the many home made casing recipes that are floating around on LW. Your leather is ready to begin tooling when it is almost the same color as it is when dry and it should feel cool and slightly clammy when touched to your cheek.

Hope this helps,

Bob

so another question on that.... is there a benefit?

Not that im doing it right cause one is always learning, but I generally have no problem with it drying out between work sessions cause then I re-wet it and I know exactly how much re-wetting i did.

Yes I am one of those folks who has no idea how to tell moisture content. I first learned simply by color and feel temperature and I still fumble my way with that method.

PaganBear,

The problem with re-wetting your leather is that it defeats some of the benefits of casing. Each time you add water, you lose definition, depth, crispness and burnish (color which appears in your beveling and shading). Part of the purpose of casing is to enhance those characteristics....

Bob

Edited July 28, 2009 by hidepounder

[King's X]

Bob:

Interestingly enough you bring up a a good point and many thanks. I was told to use plain old cold water. Secondly, I was advised and greatly discouraged by one of my first instructors not to use plastic bags. I was told that it would create vapor bubbles on the top of the bag over the leather and it could fall and create stains. Glass or plastic I have since used both and they seem to work. I think a lot depends on the leather that you use, period. Good leather will stay cased a long long time. Medicore leather will not stay long enough to take a drink of your ice cold beer sitting next to your maul.

So, not that I have a place to disagree with you, but I have to point out the leather think. I think (because I was one of those newbies) that believed a lot of what I was told at the beginning especially when it came to leather. Now, since being a member here and trying different things out there, not so.

So, in closing, I would take all of what you heard here and try it out even with medicore leather and see how it works. The leather I worked on last night just happened to be a small piece of 8-9 oz Tandy hide that I "cased" overnight with the glass. Even before I went to bed that night, I could see the change in color of the leather like it was drying out? Right then I figured I was going to encounter problems the next day. I recall when I case Herman Oak or Wickett & Craig, this didn't happen. It would turn a rich slightly darker color as it sat. Anyways, sure enough last night, that thing would not cut well, even stopped like every stroke. My hand/fingers were worn out. I decided to put a little water like Bob Dellis did with a slight wet rag and it would ease up, but it soon dried out. Finally, early this morning I was done, but the family reported what sound like construction going on with the hammering and pinging. I think I might have cracked my poor granite. The rest of that leather is going in the trash.

Okay, I said enough. Thanks for sharing Mr. Bob.

[hidepounder]

I'm not sure what your early instructor was cautioning you about....maybe something that I haven't ever run into. But I can tell you that I've been casing with plastic bags for many years and have encountered no staining problems. When I first started working for Bill Porters Saddle Shop, they had a wooden box lined with galvinized steel sheeting. We put our wet leather in the box and let it set overnight. The humidity in the box cased the leather nicely. Another shop I was at used a large ice chest.

There is nothing wrong with casing with water only....but don't be afraid to try some of the casing solutions that have been in use for years....they may help with some of the difficult leather. I've been putting a few drops of Joy dish soap in my water for a long time now. I just recently tried the casing solution that Bruce Johnson shared with us here on LW and I like that too.

I for sure agree with you that there is no substitute for quality leather...inexpensive leather will most certainly present problems not found with the major tanneries and casing may not help at all with that leather. I have used Tandy leather every now and then and have not had any real problems.....I just happen to be a HO fan and like how it tools. I've never used W & C because it always felt very soft to me, but I know that it is premium stuff. I NEVER buy sale leather from unknown sources and sometimes you end up with a side of leather that is just sticky to cut...even from the big boys!

Bob

Bob

Bob:

Interestingly enough you bring up a a good point and many thanks. I was told to use plain old cold water. Secondly, I was advised and greatly discouraged by one of my first instructors not to use plastic bags. I was told that it would create vapor bubbles on the top of the bag over the leather and it could fall and create stains. Glass or plastic I have since used both and they seem to work. I think a lot depends on the leather that you use, period. Good leather will stay cased a long long time. Medicore leather will not stay long enough to take a drink of your ice cold beer sitting next to your maul.

So, not that I have a place to disagree with you, but I have to point out the leather think. I think (because I was one of those newbies) that believed a lot of what I was told at the beginning especially when it came to leather. Now, since being a member here and trying different things out there, not so.

So, in closing, I would take all of what you heard here and try it out even with medicore leather and see how it works. The leather I worked on last night just happened to be a small piece of 8-9 oz Tandy hide that I "cased" overnight with the glass. Even before I went to bed that night, I could see the change in color of the leather like it was drying out? Right then I figured I was going to encounter problems the next day. I recall when I case Herman Oak or Wickett & Craig, this didn't happen. It would turn a rich slightly darker color as it sat. Anyways, sure enough last night, that thing would not cut well, even stopped like every stroke. My hand/fingers were worn out. I decided to put a little water like Bob Dellis did with a slight wet rag and it would ease up, but it soon dried out. Finally, early this morning I was done, but the family reported what sound like construction going on with the hammering and pinging. I think I might have cracked my poor granite. The rest of that leather is going in the trash.

Okay, I said enough. Thanks for sharing Mr. Bob.

[dustin29]

Thanks for the input guys. I will definetly try these methods and decide what is best for the leather that I use.

[PaganBear]

Bob,

Thanks, the information helped me better understand. How do you handle it if you have an exceptionally large design that is taking WAY long or youre working with some of that wont stay wet leather...

is it ok to re-wet before the leather fully dries out or is there a better method? I have never tried casing the leather, I will definitely have to do that now.

[hidepounder]

Corey,

With the tooling patterns I am mostly doing now, they cannot be completed in a single tooling session. So I divide the leather into sections, leaving what I am currently working on exposed while the rest of the leather is covered with plastic wrap, preserving the initial casing. When I finish one area, I exposed the next "stage"....tool it....then expose the next "stage" and so on until I have completed the tooling. I do re-wet the leather when necessary, but I try to divide the tooling into stages where I don't have to.

Bob

Edited July 29, 2009 by hidepounder

[dbarleather]

Bob,

What do you use as a slicker on your cased leather?

[hidepounder]

Bob,

What do you use as a slicker on your cased leather?

I really like the glass slicker that Barry makes. I have a beautiful wood slicker (cocobolo or something like that) that I spent a lot of money on but it cracked here in our dry climate. Also, the glass is harder to nick or scratch which leaves marks on the leather.

Bob

[ericluther]

when slicking the leather whats the best procedure? how much pressure, direction, etc?

also can slicking it make it stretch out of shape?

thank you,

Eric

[King's X]

Eric

There are so many variables and Mr. Parks may chime in, please do. I found that it doesn't stretch when I slick my leather, but are you talking about 2oz verses 9oz? If you glue your leather down to a board, you should be okay. Obiviously, with thicker leather this may not be necessary. I say this because I know people who will glue down an 8-9oz piece of leather and others that will not? Go figure. A lot of what you learn will be from your own doing. Just like anything else, practice, practice, practice; experiment, experiment. There is another thread somewhere here about having too much scrap around? What experiments can be done with all of that leather?? A lot.

If I am casing a piece of leather for a job, I will also put a small piece in the casing process to use as my "warm up" or practice piece. This will give you an idea of how your leather will react when you are warming up. Last thing you want to do is mess up your final piece! Been there done that too many time.

As for the slickers, PM TimD on here, I believe he may chime in later, but he makes these great little slickers for $20 bucks plus S/H. Wow, for a hobbyist they are great and build like the old Sear's building. Small investment for experimenting, I think.

Good luck

[hidepounder]

when slicking the leather whats the best procedure? how much pressure, direction, etc?

also can slicking it make it stretch out of shape?

thank you,

Eric

Eric,

Slicking does stretch the leather and that is part of the purpose. I slick when the leather is wet, before it goes into the sack. I then slick again when it is cased and I am ready to glue it to the backerboard...in my case 1/4" acrylic. It stretches again when I slick the second time. By pre-stretching, the leather stretches less during tooling.

You're probably wondering what about the piece stretching out of shape, right? Well I haven't cut it to shape yet. It is at this point that I cut the piece to the it's final shape. Up to this point it is just roughed out because I know I am going to stretch it a little before I glue it down. On some small pieces, especially when they are scalloped, I will glue the roughed out piece down to the acrylic and then use my swivel knife to cut the final shape into the leather so that I have a guide to use my dividers on to establish my borders. When I'm finished tooling, I will remove the piece from the acrylic and then finish cutting to shape thru my swivel knife cuts.

When I'm slicking, I push and pull and go in all directions, but generally I push out to the edges. Besides taking some of the stretch out I am also compacting the surface of the leather. I would say I use firm pressure. Too much pressure will damage the leather and if you stretch too much, the leather will shrink back some when removed from the backer board. I tool mostly on leather ranging from 5 ozs to 9 ozs, but I slick everything from skirting leather to 2 oz lining (if I'm going to tool it).

Hope this helps....

Bob

[ericluther]

Thank you so much! that clears up all my questions, a friend of mine does glass work and is making me a slicker cant wait to try it out!!

Eric

[TexasLady]

Bob:

... Even before I went to bed that night, I could see the change in color of the leather like it was drying out? Right then I figured I was going to encounter problems the next day. I recall when I case Herman Oak or Wickett & Craig, this didn't happen. It would turn a rich slightly darker color as it sat. Anyways, sure enough last night, that thing would not cut well, even stopped like every stroke. My hand/fingers were worn out. I decided to put a little water like Bob Dellis did with a slight wet rag and it would ease up, but it soon dried out. Finally, early this morning I was done, but the family reported what sound like construction going on with the hammering and pinging. I think I might have cracked my poor granite. The rest of that leather is going in the trash.

Okay, I said enough. Thanks for sharing Mr. Bob.

King's X, would this kind of leather still be good enough to use up as, for example, some soles sewn on the bottom of moccasins? - TexasLady

[King's X]

King's X, would this kind of leather still be good enough to use up as, for example, some soles sewn on the bottom of moccasins? - TexasLady

Absolutely. Go for it. I can be carved as well, but there is some difficutly to it. I have a friend that still uses Tandy leather, but he also uses Pro-carve solution mixed in his water.

[ClayB]

Pretty much everything I have carved in the last couple years has been on Tandy leather too. It takes a little while to figure out how to make it work, but once you do, it carves just fine for me. For me, the key seems to be to keep it damper than some of the other leathers out there, and I case with just plain water.

[TexasLady]

Absolutely. Go for it. I can be carved as well, but there is some difficutly to it. I have a friend that still uses Tandy leather, but he also uses Pro-carve solution mixed in his water.

8/18/09

Thanks, KingsX,

When I read that post of yours, talking about the leather that dried out too fast, I knew exactly what you were talking about. On one of my 'buying sprees' at Tandy, I'd grabbed some 'practice scraps' out of a bin, and greedily took them home, thinking of all the 'silk purses' I could make out of those 'sows ears'. Well, I did actually make one quite nice 'holster' for my high-quality leather-cutting scissors from a couple of those scraps. However, when I started making another 'scissor holster' for a friend (using, actually, a scrap that had the scarred 'brand' on it), the stuff was so hard that it broke my little 'awl' that I stab the holes with for my 'saddle-stitching'. I had to use the 'hole punch' to be able to sew the two pieces of leather together. And yes, the little awl was sharp and stropped. It just couldn't cut cement.

- TexasLady

[philarryous]

Hi Bob, great advice , one question, what does the joy dish liquid do in the casing process? just wondering. I like reading your advice, you seem to be a very seasoned leather carver. How long have you been doing leather carving? any tips on the sherraden carving style? not sure if thats spelt right..lol would appeciate any advice you can give me to improve.

[hidepounder]

The soap is a surfactant and allows the water molecules to be more completely absorbed. As far as Sheridan style carving is concerned, where do I start, LOL! There are some good books out there and of course the best place to learn is from another tooler or in some of the many classes offered at the shows.