Artisan Stitching Tension

[rdb]

It's too early for me on the East Coast to call Artisan, so I'll ask here first.

Just set up my Toro 3000, and getting familiar with it. It was apparently set up for multiple layers when I first got it. It was working fine through 3-4 layers of belt leather, then I got the brilliant idea to set it for one layer. I made adjustments to the main tension screw, and fine tuned it with the aux one.

Every practice piece worked and looked fine, then when I went to actually make something, the tension seems to have a mind of it's own.

I'm sure it's me, and what I did to the original setup. Reading the small pamphlet said that if the top stitch showed the knot to loosen the main tension, which I did, until the screw ran out of thread, and fell off the spring. There wasn't much room to loosen there. Long story short, I played around untill the scrap pieces showed correctly. Then went to make...The results are in the Pic. It starts off right, then on the top you can see the tension lapses for a good three inches, then comes back.....

If anyone has a clue, let me know. Also, if anyone knows how to start the tension screws at the correct first setting (i.e like a carb you would screw it all the way in, and then come out a half turn, or something like that).

[Luke Hatley]

rdb.........Most of the time I - you will be sewing 2 layers of leather.... try sewing 2 layers.

RE THREAD THE MACHINE..

LOOK AT THE BOBBIN.. MAKE SURE THREAD IS COMMIMG OFF THE BOBBIN THE RIGHT WAY.

IT IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING SIMPLE..

DRINK ANOTHER..... SOME THING...

RE READ THE BOOK

PRACTICE YOUR STICHING.

OK.... NOW CALL ....ARTISAN

[Art]

Hi rdb,

With thinner leather and thicker thread, getting the tension perfect can be a problem. It is not absolutely necessary for the lock to be in the exact center of the leather or layers of leather, just in there somewhere, and in older manuals (which seem to be more instructional) it recommends the lock just up a little from the bottom. When I first got my 4000, I filled up 6-10 feet of old Tandy 10oz veg tan with neatly stitched tightly spaced rows. I oiled and adjusted and sewed and tried out things, and basically broke me and the machine in. Not saying I couldn't have done a project, but I think the practice was time well spent, I probably needed it more than the machine. So first things first. Which tension is main and which is aux. I use the tension at the top of the machine as my main tension adjustment. I like to use this one as the presser foot lifter releases it when the foot is lifted. I call this the "top" tension. The lower tension closer to the needle I call the "lower" tension adjustment and I rarely apply much tension here except for double wrapping it. This is my way of doing it, others may be different. Check with Steve at Artisan for the proper tension to adjust. For heavy stitching in veg tan, I use a lube pot with silicone thread lube. Not necessary with lighter threads and leathers, but it seems to smooth things out for me.

Remember, with thicker thread on thinner leather, your margin for getting the lock right is a lot smaller, that's why some of us have more than one machine, one set up with a 26 needle (230) needle and 346 thread and one set up with a 20 needle (125) and 138 thread.

Art

It's too early for me on the East Coast to call Artisan, so I'll ask here first.

Just set up my Toro 3000, and getting familiar with it. It was apparently set up for multiple layers when I first got it. It was working fine through 3-4 layers of belt leather, then I got the brilliant idea to set it for one layer. I made adjustments to the main tension screw, and fine tuned it with the aux one.

Every practice piece worked and looked fine, then when I went to actually make something, the tension seems to have a mind of it's own.

I'm sure it's me, and what I did to the original setup. Reading the small pamphlet said that if the top stitch showed the knot to loosen the main tension, which I did, until the screw ran out of thread, and fell off the spring. There wasn't much room to loosen there. Long story short, I played around untill the scrap pieces showed correctly. Then went to make...The results are in the Pic. It starts off right, then on the top you can see the tension lapses for a good three inches, then comes back.....

If anyone has a clue, let me know. Also, if anyone knows how to start the tension screws at the correct first setting (i.e like a carb you would screw it all the way in, and then come out a half turn, or something like that).

[rdb]

Thanx Art. That should help in the figgerin'.

In their manual the "lower tension" is the Main tension screw. It says finer adjustments are made from the "top" or aux screw.

My floor is littered with practice pieces. They were mostly good, but the second I try and make something, it goes loopy....must be I've used up all my karma over the years....lol. Gonna have to help some old lady across the street today, and build up a few points....

Well...back to more experimenting, until the time zone gets on my side. I'll follow up with results a little bit later.

[rdb]

Spoke with Steve at Artisan....Good Man!

It was actually not something I or the machine did that was wrong.

The 3000 comes shipped with a 25 needle and 277 thread. The combination is perfect for 3/8 and above leathers. What I had been attempting even with two layers fell within the 1/4 inch zone. Depending on the type of leather, the climate, and quark resistance this becomes a grey zone for the needle and thread mentioned above. Steve's recommendation was to use a 24 needle, and go for 207 thread on the bobbin for this 1/4 inch depth.

Well, I don't have either the 24 or the 207 right here, but we talked a bit further, and Steve explained how to begin the setup on tension. I'll repeat it here for any other wayward warriors....

Loosen both the upper (aux) and lower (main) tension screws until they no longer touch the spring (just before they fall off actually) then tighten enough to just touch the spring again. Sew a few scraps. I did that and found the knot almost on the bottom of the leather, so...according to manual, you tighten incrementally until the knot appears right. I did that, and it worked right fine on the 1/4 inches.

Thanx to Luke and Art for trying to help out. That's why this place is the best on the net!!

I'm still gonna have to go find that old lady to help across the street, even if she don't want to go....LOL

[John D Dennehy]

rdb,

I ran into the same issue. After trying everything the manual indicated and some of my own ideas, I re wound a bobbin and re threaded the machine following the exact diagram in the manual.

Turns out that no matter how many times I looked I had threaded it wrong in one spot.

Also make sure your needle is sharp and inserted the correct way and depth.

[rdb]

Thanx John, it's good to know I wasn't the only one!

The problem seems to have gone for today. I ripped out the bad stitching in the concealed carry belt I was doing, and restitched. I won't be able to use this as a sample cause, you can easily see the overstitches, etc, but for the record I'm showing the pic.

As a side note:

This is from a bridle side I had.

I skived/split both ends, so the belt isn't too heavy in front, but I didn't skive back far enough on the buckle side this time...too much of a hurry to run the new machine. I also didn't feather it back from the skive, so it's kinda abrupt when it gets back to full belt leather...

You can see the at the backstitching the parts I repaired. Tomorrow, I'll give a go at making a proper gun platform.

[esantoro]

ahh, another "wayward warrior."

Thanks for the info from artisan. That's one I haven't tried yet. I've also noticed that different presser feet will influence stitch quality on thinner leathers. Which presser foot setup are you using? On thinner leathers I get the best results with the blanket foot setup.

Ed

[rdb]

I haven't got any of the extras, Ed... just "my left foot"...lol. I figured before I spent a fortune the day I picked it up, I'd wait and see what I was going to actually need.

Right off the bat...gotto get me some different/lots of needles/thread. The nylon thread they sent seems a bit frayable. I'll have to sherlock all the threads available.

Probably get the blanket foot setup too.

Next I'll see if the holster setup is worth it.

I'm drooling over the French Box Rig....

[Art]

I've used the Linhanyl in 46 to 138 and it works pretty good in my 618. Rice Nylon over 138 or Coats Poly have given me good service, I just haven't tried Linhanyl. Eddington poly works good also, if you like the look (it's not laid that tightly). A&E I just don't like, but it runs ok. I've picked up others at consignment auctions over the years, with varying results. Some importers are trying to put the Chinese connection together, we'll see where that goes, if they have all new machinery and good quality control (always important with imports) they may have something because the Yuan is still following the dollar closely. You might have problems finding colors in ANY thread over 138.

Art

I haven't got any of the extras, Ed... just "my left foot"...lol. I figured before I spent a fortune the day I picked it up, I'd wait and see what I was going to actually need.

Right off the bat...gotto get me some different/lots of needles/thread. The nylon thread they sent seems a bit frayable. I'll have to sherlock all the threads available.

Probably get the blanket foot setup too.

Next I'll see if the holster setup is worth it.

I'm drooling over the French Box Rig....

[skipj]

I just got a 4000R and the manual looks the same as the 3000. It is the same manual after further review. Steve told me there is a error in the threading diagram for the 4000, he probably told you about it already, when you thread the aux tension head you are supposed to run the thread back through thread guide "A" again. This is a typo in the manual.

I was trying to sew with 346 thread on the needle and the bobbin, that's the thread that came with the machine, and I couldn't get hte thread tension right. The manual says you can use that combo for sheaths but Steve says it won't work which was my experience, the combined thread layers are too big to go thru the hole the needle makes.

SkipJ

[rdb]

Thanx skip. I wasn't told anything about that aux tension. I'll try that tomorrow, just to see.

With the great telephone support from Artisan, it's a wonder Steve or anyone can remember to tell us all everything they know, gawd knows, they try though...lol

[tonyc1]

Hi rdb,

With thinner leather and thicker thread, getting the tension perfect can be a problem. It is not absolutely necessary for the lock to be in the exact center of the leather or layers of leather, just in there somewhere, and in older manuals (which seem to be more instructional) it recommends the lock just up a little from the bottom. When I first got my 4000, I filled up 6-10 feet of old Tandy 10oz veg tan with neatly stitched tightly spaced rows. I oiled and adjusted and sewed and tried out things, and basically broke me and the machine in. Not saying I couldn't have done a project, but I think the practice was time well spent, I probably needed it more than the machine. So first things first. Which tension is main and which is aux. I use the tension at the top of the machine as my main tension adjustment. I like to use this one as the presser foot lifter releases it when the foot is lifted. I call this the "top" tension. The lower tension closer to the needle I call the "lower" tension adjustment and I rarely apply much tension here except for double wrapping it. This is my way of doing it, others may be different. Check with Steve at Artisan for the proper tension to adjust. For heavy stitching in veg tan, I use a lube pot with silicone thread lube. Not necessary with lighter threads and leathers, but it seems to smooth things out for me.

Remember, with thicker thread on thinner leather, your margin for getting the lock right is a lot smaller, that's why some of us have more than one machine, one set up with a 26 needle (230) needle and 346 thread and one set up with a 20 needle (125) and 138 thread.

Art

Hi Art. On my 205, I've only ever used the top tensioner to alter tension, the bottom one is just the same as when I got the machine and I use #160 to #230 needles and thread from #20 to #10 and any adjustment I do is very minimal and by doing it this way it is easy to pull the thread out when you lift the foot as the tension relaxes when you lift the foot.

Tony.

[esantoro]

I get better results when I wrap the top thread 2.5 times around the lower tension discs.

ed

[TheArtisan]

I get better results when I wrap the top thread 2.5 times around the lower tension discs.

ed

Hi I am new here and bought the toro 3000 for top stitching on my auto upholstery surface seating. I use 415 thread on top and 138 on the bottom. One thing that helped me is that insead of wraping twice around as directed I wraped it once and it turned out really well.

Kevin

Here is some of my work

Edited May 15, 2008 by TheArtisan

[esantoro]

I have recently gone back to the 1.5 wrap, but I now make sure there is not much drag on the bobbin thread, that it pulls out of the bobbin case very easily. I noticed that with such a setup I can predictably adjust the top tensioner for micro adjustments.

I'll have to try 415/207 or 346/207. Otherwise I would have tried going only one size lower for the bobbin, but i suppose it depends on whether the bottom stitching will be seen.

Ed

[TheArtisan]

I have recently gone back to the 1.5 wrap, but I now make sure there is not much drag on the bobbin thread, that it pulls out of the bobbin case very easily. I noticed that with such a setup I can predictably adjust the top tensioner for micro adjustments.

I'll have to try 415/207 or 346/207. Otherwise I would have tried going only one size lower for the bobbin, but i suppose it depends on whether the bottom stitching will be seen.

Ed

Good point for my type of application the bottom stitch is not seen. I told Jerry to set it up for 415 for me but I do not really think he understook my use for it. I had to try it many different ways before it would even stitch on the thinner leather.

Kevin

[esantoro]

Good point for my type of application the bottom stitch is not seen. I told Jerry to set it up for 415 for me but I do not really think he understook my use for it. I had to try it many different ways before it would even stitch on the thinner leather.

Kevin

That was my precise problem as well. Sometimes I need to stitch on only one layer of 5/6 oz leather, chrome tan or otherwize.

ed

[esantoro]

There is something I do, something I stumbled upon, and I've never heard it suggested by anyone.

I have removed the spring from the bobbin case, so now only the tension screw adds tension not the spring pushing the bobbin against the shuttle casing. This isn't necessary if you only stitch thicker leathers, but if you traverse a range of thicknesses on a single project, I think the removal of this spring is a good choice.

Another thing I do with lighter leathers is use a slotted, feeddogless needle plate. It removes the feeddog as an agent in conveying the leather but the result is better stitches, though you do have to pay a bit more attention to applying a little nudge to keep the leather moving slowly, depending on thickness, speed, etc.

A few weeks ago and other variables. A couple weeks ago I went back to the standard needle plate with feeddog adjusted lower. After more tests, especially with 346 thread, I went back to the slotted plate.

Ed

Spoke with Steve at Artisan....Good Man!

It was actually not something I or the machine did that was wrong.

The 3000 comes shipped with a 25 needle and 277 thread. The combination is perfect for 3/8 and above leathers. What I had been attempting even with two layers fell within the 1/4 inch zone. Depending on the type of leather, the climate, and quark resistance this becomes a grey zone for the needle and thread mentioned above. Steve's recommendation was to use a 24 needle, and go for 207 thread on the bobbin for this 1/4 inch depth.

Well, I don't have either the 24 or the 207 right here, but we talked a bit further, and Steve explained how to begin the setup on tension. I'll repeat it here for any other wayward warriors....

Loosen both the upper (aux) and lower (main) tension screws until they no longer touch the spring (just before they fall off actually) then tighten enough to just touch the spring again. Sew a few scraps. I did that and found the knot almost on the bottom of the leather, so...according to manual, you tighten incrementally until the knot appears right. I did that, and it worked right fine on the 1/4 inches.

Thanx to Luke and Art for trying to help out. That's why this place is the best on the net!!

I'm still gonna have to go find that old lady to help across the street, even if she don't want to go....LOL

[Henry]

rdb,

I ran into the same issue. After trying everything the manual indicated and some of my own ideas, I re wound a bobbin and re threaded the machine following the exact diagram in the manual.

Turns out that no matter how many times I looked I had threaded it wrong in one spot.

Also make sure your needle is sharp and inserted the correct way and depth.

Hey, I like the buckle you used, can you tell me where I can buy some? Thanks,

Henry

[rdb]

Henry, that's just an 1.5" brass buckle from Zack White

[Handstitched]

I had a similar problem when putting a stitch into a single layer of leather, as decorative stitch for example.

But then I read rdb's response, and I did the same , unscrewed the tension all the way out on both aux & main tensions ....and ...it worked !!!

The lock of the stitch is just in the right place ,as before it was close to the surface.Thanks rdb.

Also, I was having the occasional problem of the thread 'popping' out of the aux tension at the back, but after watching the video for a little while I did learn to run the thread back through the guide, ....problem solved

The more I learn , the more confident I become

All the best,

Handstitched

Western Australia (..........where its REALLY HOT right now , like 40c to 48c )

[tonyc1]

But, is the stitch tight? I read in a manual (Singer) once that the bight should be in the lower half of the material.

Tony.

[esantoro]

But, is the stitch tight? I read in a manual (Singer) once that the bight should be in the lower half of the material.

Tony.

I have had good experience on lighter leathers by removing the spring in the bobbin case or cutting it down.

ed

[mntdshootrdoc]

It's too early for me on the East Coast to call Artisan, so I'll ask here first.

Just set up my Toro 3000, and getting familiar with it. It was apparently set up for multiple layers when I first got it. It was working fine through 3-4 layers of belt leather, then I got the brilliant idea to set it for one layer. I made adjustments to the main tension screw, and fine tuned it with the aux one.

Every practice piece worked and looked fine, then when I went to actually make something, the tension seems to have a mind of it's own.

I'm sure it's me, and what I did to the original setup. Reading the small pamphlet said that if the top stitch showed the knot to loosen the main tension, which I did, until the screw ran out of thread, and fell off the spring. There wasn't much room to loosen there. Long story short, I played around untill the scrap pieces showed correctly. Then went to make...The results are in the Pic. It starts off right, then on the top you can see the tension lapses for a good three inches, then comes back.....

If anyone has a clue, let me know. Also, if anyone knows how to start the tension screws at the correct first setting (i.e like a carb you would screw it all the way in, and then come out a half turn, or something like that).