Needle help

[skipj]

My Artisan manual for the 4000R says to use Schmetz brand needles size 794 D or S,NM:160 or 160 size 33 or 24, Canu 53:20MF1. Are the NM and Canu different brands of needle? Also, for heaver leather it say us 794 D of at least #25 (200). I thought the 794 was a certain size needle with a D point or do they come in different diamenters? Just got the machine and would like to order some different needles for various thickness of leather or fabric.

Thanks,

SkipJ

[tonyc1]

My Artisan manual for the 4000R says to use Schmetz brand needles size 794 D or S,NM:160 or 160 size 33 or 24, Canu 53:20MF1. Are the NM and Canu different brands of needle? Also, for heaver leather it say us 794 D of at least #25 (200). I thought the 794 was a certain size needle with a D point or do they come in different diamenters? Just got the machine and would like to order some different needles for various thickness of leather or fabric.

Thanks,

SkipJ

Skip, I think 794 refers to the system.

Tony.

[skipj]

I'm even more confused, Systems?

SkipJ

[tonyc1]

I'm even more confused, Systems?

SkipJ

Needle system.

[Art]

Hi Skip,

There are Systems and there are sizes.

794 is a system

7X3 is a system almost identical to the 794 except conical point for webbing

Canu 53:20MF1 is also a system similar to the above

D is a diamond point

S is a spear point

NM is the Metric needle shaft diameter (the base that goes in the machine is always 2.5mm for the 794 system). In the example 160 is 1.60mm

The number 33 or 24 really should have read 23 or 24 which are Singer needle sizes and would correspond to a NM size of 160 or 180. A 33 would be a NM size 400 which is out of the range of the 794 system and would be a honking 4mm wide needle.

When ordering needles you say or write 1 10 pack or 794D needles Size 160 or Size 23 (They should know the 23 is a Singer size.

Ok now, these are sizes for Needle/Thread. This is for production, balls to the wall sewing and for less than that you may be able to use the next smaller needle. As you get more experience, you can run off the tracks a little.

nm120 Singer 19 69/69

nm140 Singer 22 138/92 or 92/92

nm160 Singer 23 138/138

nm180 Singer 24 207/138

nm200 Singer 25 207/207

nm230 Singer 26 277/277 or 346/277 or even 346/346

nm250 Singer 27 415/346 or 415/415

The above table gives you PLENTY of room, like I said, when you get some stitching under your belt you can go smaller for a tighter looking stitch, however if you go too far, needle breakage gets more prevalent.

You should not expect to sew the entire range above without some serious adjustments, you will probably have to shim the shuttle to get into the smaller sizes, but you can try, it won't hurt anything but your patience.

Have Fun,

Art

My Artisan manual for the 4000R says to use Schmetz brand needles size 794 D or S,NM:160 or 160 size 33 or 24, Canu 53:20MF1. Are the NM and Canu different brands of needle? Also, for heaver leather it say us 794 D of at least #25 (200). I thought the 794 was a certain size needle with a D point or do they come in different diamenters? Just got the machine and would like to order some different needles for various thickness of leather or fabric.

Thanks,

SkipJ

[skipj]

art the 33 was my typo is should have been 23. I'm still not clear what a needle system consists of. Does it describe the shank dia and length of the needles? The #25 (200) throws me. I looked up the Schmetz page and can't find system 794 listed. Is the #25 the singer needle size and the 200 refer to NM?

Thanks,

SkipJ

[bcurrier]

7X3 is a system almost identical to the 794 except conical point for webbing

I believe 7X3 is available in a number of different point types.

Bill

[Art]

Hi Skip,

There are about 5 different methodologies or "different" needle systems. While one can make a little sense out of the Canu system, in all it is hard to figure what madness possessed the demented folks who created them. I'm sure it was perfectly clear to them at the time.

The Schmetz website is a pure PIA to navigate. I can easily find the 794 S and 794 LR, but I know they also make a D and Rlr. There is more help at info@schmetz.com.

#25 is the Singer way of signifying the size or diameter of the needle. 200 is the nm way to specify diameter. See table in prior email, I give nm size then Singer size.

Art

art the 33 was my typo is should have been 23. I'm still not clear what a needle system consists of. Does it describe the shank dia and length of the needles? The #25 (200) throws me. I looked up the Schmetz page and can't find system 794 listed. Is the #25 the singer needle size and the 200 refer to NM?

Thanks,

SkipJ

[Art]

S and BP (ball point) are the only ones I've seen readily in 7X3, however DYx3 has a bunch and they are all the same dimensions anyway.

Art

I believe 7X3 is available in a number of different point types.

Bill

[tonyc1]

Hi Skip,

There are about 5 different methodologies or "different" needle systems. While one can make a little sense out of the Canu system, in all it is hard to figure what madness possessed the demented folks who created them. I'm sure it was perfectly clear to them at the time.

The Schmetz website is a pure PIA to navigate. I can easily find the 794 S and 794 LR, but I know they also make a D and Rlr. There is more help at info@schmetz.com.

#25 is the Singer way of signifying the size or diameter of the needle. 200 is the nm way to specify diameter. See table in prior email, I give nm size then Singer size.

Art

Art, all this talk made me go and have a look at the needle packets I have but have never taken notice of as I just tell the traveller what I want and he knows all the terms and names for the diff. types. Anyway mine are all Schmetz. One packet says Canu; 180 size 24 as well as 794 LR which is what we call Leather point or Twist and also DYX3 LR. The other pakets are 7x3 160 which we call canvas point and the others are 794S, 794 LL, 794 LR and 7X2 NTW #250. It's easy to see how confusing they are especially to someone just starting out. I just tell the traveller what I want as it's much less confusing. All of these needles work well in my Adler 205 so I guess that's all that matters! I suppose some people would read this and say what thell are they talking about!!

Tony.