All leather ground seat

[Steve Brewer]

I will attempt to show my meathod of puttig in a all leather ground seat.We start with the bare tree and I add risers

We then skive the risers to the shape of the bars

Then i add the leather strainer piece and skive it to desired shape

Followed by 3 pieces on top of it

Skive to shape then add cover piece and skive out final shape

Hope this will help some out .I cut the hand hole and stirrup slots after the seat is streched in.

Steve

[Traveller]

Thanks for posting those pictures, Steve! Very interesting.

I wonder if someone who uses tin seat strainers wouldn't mind posting photos of that process, not as a way for any of us to decide which method we prefer (it would be impossible to decide that anyway through photos) but because I, for one, am very interested in what it all looks like underneath the finished product.

Thanks again!

Joanne

[CWR]

Steve,

Do you use any tacks or nails or is it just glued in? I may be missing them in the pictures. Wish I could sit there with a few of those 'stones and watch you put it in.

Thanks,

CW

[Steve Brewer]

CW,It will be nailed in after the stirup slots and the hand hole is cut out

[Denise]

Steve,

Thanks for taking the time to do this! Seeing pictures like this makes all the difference to understanding. I'm curious now to read if others have variations on your method. Seems the groundseat could be something every saddle maker does differently...

[Windom Leather]

Thanks Steve,

That has really opened my eyes and answered alot of my questions.

Thank you for sharing

[jwwright]

Thanks for posting this Steve..........sure is alot more constructive than folks taking pot shots at each other over varying methods. It's always interesting and informative to see how other makers are doing things, especially those of your calliber. JW

[bruce johnson]

Steve,

Great posting, and I have to agree with JW. You have convinced me to go back to cutting my handhole and stirrup slots after fitting in the seat. Thanks.

[mulefool]

I had decided to start cutting the hand hole afterwards, too. Would you mind saying a few words about how you determine the corners and shape? Do you just draw a curve that looks right each time or do you have a template you use to make the curve the way you like? I'm assuming you would maybe come up from the bottom with an awl blade to determine where you want the corners to be. I imagine you could stick the awl through from the bottom to determine the top of the curve behind the fork as well? Or is there a better way? The part that has me worried the most is the curve against the back of the fork. I see lots of possibilities for disaster there.

Thanks for taking the time to show us how you do it.

One other question, I had been thinking about also using plugs so I wouldn't have to cut the stirrups leather slots afterwards. Is there a reason you prefer not to? Thanks, Chris

[hidepounder]

Steve,

I enjoyed visiting with you yesterday. I commented on your photo tutorial and I'm not sure what happened but I apparently didn't get it posted correctly. I just wanted to tell you that the photos you posted are terrific and make installing an all leather ground seat easy for a non-saddlemaker like me to understand. I hope you took photos of the process as you progressed showing cutting the hand hole and stirrup leather slots. This is very informative and I want to thank you for making the effort and for sharing!

Bobby

[JAM]

Steve,

I, too, want to add my thanks for your excellent tutorial. It is really helpful, and cutting the holes after fitting the seat is interesting - makes sense, can't wait to try it.

Julia

[Steve Brewer]

I had decided to start cutting the hand hole afterwards, too. Would you mind saying a few words about how you determine the corners and shape? Do you just draw a curve that looks right each time or do you have a template you use to make the curve the way you like? I'm ming you would maybe come up from the bottom with an awl blade to determine where you want the corners to be. I imagine you could stick the awl through from the bottom to determine the top of the curve behind the fork as well? Or is there a better way? The part that has me worried the most is the curve against the back of the fork. I see lots of possibilities for disaster there.

Thanks for taking the time to show us how you do it.

One other question, I had been thinking about also using plugs so I wouldn't have to cut the stirrups leather slots afterwards. Is there a reason you prefer not to? Thanks, Chris

I cut the hole out in my seat before cutting out the ground I will post pictures of that at a later date.As for the sturrip slots ,I think you see your ground seat shape better when you cut them after the seat is shaped.That is a personal preference thing to do.By cutting them after the seat is streched in there is no need for plugs.

This way you can draw around the seat hole and determine the bottom of your ground seat cut.The awl meathod for the front would work well.I would also mark where the bars meet the forks.Hope this helps. Steve

[mulefool]

Thanks, Steve, that makes sense. The fork cover has always been one of the first things I do, after building the ground seat, but there's really no reason it would have to go in that order. There's so many things we go along doing a certain way without thinking if there could be a better way to try. You're probably right about those stirrup slots. too, but I always struggle to get the corners. Thanks again. Chris

[Steve Brewer]

Thanks, Steve, that makes sense. The fork cover has always been one of the first things I do, after building the ground seat, but there's really no reason it would have to go in that order. There's so many things we go along doing a certain way without thinking if there could be a better way to try. You're probably right about those stirrup slots. too, but I always struggle to get the corners. Thanks again. Chris

Chris,I started Stretching my seats before the fork cover and rigging while working in a big shop where they sent saddles out to be carved.We fit up the whole saddle and sent to the carvers.We put it togather whenit came back.I liked building that way and stuck with it

[jbird]

Steve

I need to study this a little more but can we get this pinned it's just out standing.

Josh

PS had a long talk with steve yesterday he's a great guy and I enjoyed it.

Josh

[BuckhornBrand]

Thanks for the excellant posting Steve. Taking the time out of your busy workday to do that means a lot to a beginner like myself.

I do have a question for you- In the photos of the bottom layer of the ground seat- it looks like you haven't skived any off the area between the bars, but skived heavily the leather on top of the bars. How thin are you taking that bottom layer of leather- where it covers the bars? I think this is where I'm having trouble, I don't think I'm getting that bottom piece of leather skived thin enough.

Thanks for your time, Chuck Norris

[Steve Brewer]

Chuck you need to skive out the leather to nothing along the bottom of the bar on all the pieces exept for the cover piece.For it you want enough to let your stirrup leather set without making a bump in the seat. Steve

[Go2Tex]

Thanks for the pics. Always good to see other ways to do it. I got a couple questions, though. It looks very efficient and makes sense to do it in that order but I just don't see how I could cut the seat and finish it before I knew where the cantle filler and back piece was going to end up. It's always a crap shoot for me no matter how I do it. I cringe at the thought but obviously it works for you.

Also, it looks like you put all your groundseat pieces on grain side down. Am I seeing this right? Makes sense to do it that way because the strength is in the grain side and it would skive and carve easier on the flesh side. I like the way you end up with that perfect curve from the fork to the cantle, almost the same as an english seat that is stretched with webbing.

[Steve Brewer]

Thanks for the pics. Always good to see other ways to do it. I got a couple questions, though. It looks very efficient and makes sense to do it in that order but I just don't see how I could cut the seat and finish it before I knew where the cantle filler and back piece was going to end up. It's always a crap shoot for me no matter how I do it. I cringe at the thought but obviously it works for you.

Also, it looks like you put all your groundseat pieces on grain side down. Am I seeing this right? Makes sense to do it that way because the strength is in the grain side and it would skive and carve easier on the flesh side. I like the way you end up with that perfect curve from the fork to the cantle, almost the same as an english seat that is stretched with webbing.

Brent I make my seat button cuts by measuring up 1" from where the cantle meets the bar,tap the shape of your cantle into your seat.Remove seat and measure from the front center line to the button cut they should be the same on both sides.Cut one side then fold the seat and the other one should be the same.Cut the other side.Restretch in your seat and mark out the rest of your seat cuts.

I put in all of my peices grain side down,they skive out better.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Steve

[Go2Tex]

Brent I make my seat button cuts by measuring up 1" from where the cantle meets the bar,tap the shape of your cantle into your seat.Remove seat and measure from the front center line to the button cut they should be the same on both sides.Cut one side then fold the seat and the other one should be the same.Cut the other side.Restretch in your seat and mark out the rest of your seat cuts.

I put in all of my peices grain side down,they skive out better.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Steve

Thanks, Steve. That's very helpful. I have tons more questions but I guess the seat ear cut is way off topic for this thread and probably been discussed elsewhere. Anyhow, this has opened my mind to a whole new method and I'll have to give it a try.

[BuckhornBrand]

Steve,

Thanks for the answer. I don't think I've been taking enough off the bottom layers, then I can't take enough off the top layer to make up for it.

Thanks again for your great posting, Chuck

[steve mason]

Steve;

I did not notice in your photos, do you put any nails in your strainer or top ground seat?

thanks much

Steve

[Steve Brewer]

Steve;

I did not notice in your photos, do you put any nails in your strainer or top ground seat?

thanks much

Steve

Steve I nail after I cut my Stirrup slots.On top of my Ground seat,Around the cantle and accross the forks.

Steve

[JerryLevine]

Steve,

Thanks for taking the time to do this! Seeing pictures like this makes all the difference to understanding. I'm curious now to read if others have variations on your method. Seems the groundseat could be something every saddle maker does differently...

I'm about to build a saddle for use in England (That's the original one, not 'New....), where the weather is usually very damp. I had intended to put in an all-leather groundseat and mentioned it to a renowned saddle maker who advised me that an all-leather ground seat was great for people living in hot, dry climates, but that the arch usually created in an all-leather groundseat was likely to collapse in a humid/damp climate.

It seems that your method, Steve, doesn't rely on creating an arch in the damp leather and then letting it 'set'. The risers seem to do the job.

Anyone got any comments on that?

All the best,

Jerry

[Steve Brewer]

I'm about to build a saddle for use in England (That's the original one, not 'New....), where the weather is usually very damp. I had intended to put in an all-leather groundseat and mentioned it to a renowned saddle maker who advised me that an all-leather ground seat was great for people living in hot, dry climates, but that the arch usually created in an all-leather groundseat was likely to collapse in a humid/damp climate.

It seems that your method, Steve, doesn't rely on creating an arch in the damp leather and then letting it 'set'. The risers seem to do the job.

Anyone got any comments on that?

All the best,

Jerry

Jerry,Every piece you put down is glued with Barge or a simular glue,that makes them pretty waterproff.I have sent some saddles to Queensland ,Australia,I hear it pretty humid there and they held up good.