tomknox Report post Posted December 15, 2009 Hello, i'm npretty new here and I wanted to share my seat with you guys and gals. i'm an airbrush artist who wanted to try a hand at tooling leather. I live 30 mile from Zack White tannery and have made a few trips to get me started. I'm on a very limited budget right now which makes this very hard! I only have 1/8th latigo lace and the tannery does'nt carry any 1/4th and I can't afford the kangaroo lace right now. They also have been out of the "how to lace" book, if anyone out there has one they can part with for a newbie's christmas just let me know! I made the holes closer together hoping that it will allow the 1/8th lace to be tighter. Here's some pics of what I have so far, any comments/question/tips/or critiques are welcome to share!! Also, I would like to personally thank David Theobald for his help, without him I would'nt be this far along. This is only my second time tooling so please bare with me! I'm really more concerned with the laceing and dyeing. Hello, i'm npretty new here and I wanted to share my seat with you guys and gals. i'm an airbrush artist who wanted to try a hand at tooling leather. I live 30 mile from Zack White tannery and have made a few trips to get me started. I'm on a very limited budget right now which makes this very hard! I only have 1/8th latigo lace and the tannery does'nt carry any 1/4th and I can't afford the kangaroo lace right now. They also have been out of the "how to lace" book, if anyone out there has one they can part with for a newbie's christmas just let me know! I made the holes closer together hoping that it will allow the 1/8th lace to be tighter. Here's some pics of what I have so far, any comments/question/tips/or critiques are welcome to share!! Also, I would like to personally thank David Theobald for his help, without him I would'nt be this far along. This is only my second time tooling so please bare with me! I'm really more concerned with the laceing and dyeing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomknox Report post Posted December 15, 2009 Sorry for the double post, it won't let me edit it for some reason.... another... closer.... a wetter pic.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KenE Report post Posted December 16, 2009 Hello, I'm a newbie motorcycle seat maker/leatherworker as well. I have a few seats under my belt now and still have (alot of ) improvements I need to make, but I thought I could share some comments. As far as the lacing, it looks as if your holes are quite far apart for 1/8" stuff, and perhaps a bit too big. Its hard to say because I don't have a real good sense of scale. I have only used the "pro lace" from tandy and I tend to go with 4-5 holes per inch (0.20" - 0.25") with that lace. 0.225" works pretty good. Usually the same distance in from the edge too. I had a real hard time finding out what to use on this and in the end I got some general numbers and tried lacing a bunch of practice strips with some crap leather. I recommend this so you get the results you like. I also want to step up to the 1/4" kangaroo lace, I hear you can get away with 0.375" or more in the spacing department which should save a TON of time due to the number of holes being reduced. Supposedly the Kangaroo lace is almost unbreakable (I'd like to test that!). I've broken alot of the pro lace from tandy and it is really frustrating. Admittedly I need to make the seat patterns slightly bigger so I'm not trying to stretch the snot out of them while lacing. Alot of the pros seem to use airbrushing for the dye, so you are lucky you are already set up for this. I'd be interested in any tips coming from an airbrush artist. I was thinking of buying a cheap harbor freight brush just to apply the dye because some folks here have had good luck with them. I'm wondering if they are good enough as long as you don't require very fine detail. Any info on this approach would be appreciated. If you want to go traditional apply the dye in stages with wool remnants. I was told to dilute the dye and apply it in multiple coats in order to control the uniformity. 3 parts dye and 1 part thinner is a good place to start (always use practice pieces first). This seems to work well because the straight dye application can sometimes absorb into the leather at different rates and then you scramble to put thinner (water or spirit thinner depending on the dye you use) over it and try to rub it all together like a madman trying to blend it into a uniform color. I have been told that thinning when using an airbrush is redundant and tend to believe that. Personally I'd try to stay away from using antique until you master it with several practice pieces. Getting the resist right and getting a feel for the process is somewhat difficult and I think doing it on a whole bike seat will be tough at first (I botched one of my tooled seat tops this way). Your tooling looks nice, I can't believe this is one of your first few pieces. Did a customer generate the art, or did you just draw it as an example piece to show your work? I'm having some issues selling some of my seats on ebay and I wonder if some of it has to do with the fact that the customer wants a very particular design on their seat (I can't blame them...I just need to start somewhere...). ~Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomknox Report post Posted December 16, 2009 Ken, as for the airbrush, I ONLY use Iwata because I believe that they are the best. DO NOT buy a cheap airbrush, i stress this. You need to buy the Iwata Eclipse HP-BCS, it's a bottle feed so it can hold alot of dye, it's easy to clean, and it sprays a very nice round pattern(will cover very well). I use the gravity feed (HP-CS) but it does'nt hold alot of paint/dye. I will post my airbrush work below just to show that i'm a decent artist and I think it helps me pick up new things a little easier than most. It's my art, just a sketch really, kinda something that you'll find in the airbrush world, and i do alot of pinstriping so there's an influence in there aswell too. ALSO, if you have a local hobby lobby then you can print the 40% coupon and buy the airbrush on discount, if not go to www.coastairbrush.com they are usually cheaper than ebay. Thanks for the comments!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leatheroo Report post Posted December 16, 2009 welcome tom, great airbrush work...i LOVE my iwata!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomknox Report post Posted December 16, 2009 thanks leatheroo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rdb Report post Posted December 16, 2009 Looks pretty dang good, Tom. Couldn't ask for better advice than from Dave T. I'm over in Chatham county. You can visit anytime. If you don't want to order online, there is a Tandy in Raleigh, if you need an emergency run for lace. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomknox Report post Posted December 16, 2009 thanks rdb!! chatham county? im here in burlington, probably close but i cant think of where chatham is off the top. i do believe its close though! Zack White is 30 miles but its about a 45 minute drive. I'm not sure if i posted this in the right section or if it should be in the motorcycle stuff. hopefully ill have more pics soon to show you gays and gals! rdb, if you or your buddys ever need any airbrushing or pinstriping just let me know. all of my work is right here: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewAlbums&friendID=98371993 thanks again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shaylajade Report post Posted December 17, 2009 I love to see how well artists from other mediums transfer to new things. Your work looks far beyond a beginner leather worker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomknox Report post Posted December 17, 2009 thanks shay! i've done a little more tooling but im not ready for pics yet....hopefully more tomorrow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
David Report post Posted December 17, 2009 Welcome to the forum Tom. The seat is looking good. I think Tom's expertise with an airbrush explains his skill in tooling. Lots of folks out there bring experience in other fields to our leather work. I'm a technical illustrator, which could explain the detail that I like to put in my tooling. As far as a critique goes, the only thing I would say is that the holes do seem a bit large and widely spaced. I use 1/8" holes spaced about 3/8" apart and 1/4" kangaroo lace. Try a roll of that from Jim Downey. Not cheap but you'll get several seats out of a roll and you'll never use calf skin again. Kangaroo lace is not unbreakable, but it is pretty darn strong. Don't try to stretch your hides to pull the edges together, that just won't work. Pull your lace tight enough to have a very tight braid around the edge. If the lace isn't tight you have lacing that looks lumpy. When you're finished don't forget to tap your lacing with a mallet to force it to lay down flat. And no twists in the lace....keep it straight. Very nice work thus far Tom and excellent airbrushing. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomknox Report post Posted December 17, 2009 Thanks dave, that means alot coming from you!! Thanks also for answering my noobie questions when you didnt have to!! The hole's are a little big and probably spaced too far apart, i tried a test piece and the holes were smaller and i could'n get the lace through twice. Question- dave, i know you use hole templets with seats that you have made before but my question is this, if i mark the back for the holes spacing, and all i have is a rotory punch, i obviously can't punch through the back because it leaves an unwanted impession on the front, how do i transfer the holes to top accurately? Am i worrying about this too much?? Also, i dont have to do the basketweave, is there another weave that would work well and maybe hide the holes being too big? This thing doesnt have to be perfect, just want to see if i could generate any intrests here locally since i paint alot of bikes. Thanks for looking guys!!! Tyler Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
David Report post Posted December 17, 2009 Thanks dave, that means alot coming from you!! Thanks also for answering my noobie questions when you didnt have to!! The hole's are a little big and probably spaced too far apart, i tried a test piece and the holes were smaller and i could'n get the lace through twice. Question- dave, i know you use hole templets with seats that you have made before but my question is this, if i mark the back for the holes spacing, and all i have is a rotory punch, i obviously can't punch through the back because it leaves an unwanted impession on the front, how do i transfer the holes to top accurately? Am i worrying about this too much?? Also, i dont have to do the basketweave, is there another weave that would work well and maybe hide the holes being too big? This thing doesnt have to be perfect, just want to see if i could generate any intrests here locally since i paint alot of bikes. Thanks for looking guys!!! Tyler Tyler, I hate to disillusion you about marking the holes..... I simply lay my pattern over the leather to be punched and trace the inside of all 100 holes with a ball point pen....lol yeah you read that right.... the holes trace out smaller than the punch I use so all the ink is cut off the leather. A different weave pattern... now that is an easy one to answer. I do a little trick that Shirley Z taught me.... I call it a fast basketweave. It is done exactly like the complicated basketweave EXCEPT every time you would take the lace under another piece of lace, go on top instead..... the result is a nice looking herringbone weave pattern. It takes less than 1/4th of the time a full basketweave takes. hope this stuff helps. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomknox Report post Posted December 17, 2009 Dave, if you did'nt have the pattern/template or a seat you've never done before, then how do you go about marking the holes? Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
David Report post Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) Dave, if you did'nt have the pattern/template or a seat you've never done before, then how do you go about marking the holes? Thanks! On a new seat pan I lay out the holes on the top leather first. I just draw a faint pencil line 3/8" in from the edge of the top leather then mark the hole position with a heavier dot from my pencil. "I create a top leather with all the holes punched and a bottom leather with just two holes punched on the centerline at the front and rear of the leather. Then I tie the front to the rear using only those two holes on the centerline and with the pan and padding sandwiched in between. Now I can pull the two leathers together and mark the rear leather for all the other holes. I mark a few holes then punch them using a rotary punch. About every three holes I add another tie down. It is a slow but effective method." See the thread Christian Bike Seat under motorcycles and biker gear. I did this several years ago. It was lost during the board crash and then saved by Johanna and Kate. Dave Edited December 18, 2009 by David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomknox Report post Posted December 18, 2009 thanks dave, also very sad what happened to chris henry. i think he was a top 10 wr in the league hands down, such a terrible thing, just when he was getting on the right track. he was the same age as me and it happened here in north carolina, kinda hit home. its just very sad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KenE Report post Posted December 20, 2009 Tom, Thanks man! I was looking at the Iwata HP-BCS already, but it is really nice to get a recommendation from someone who has done alot of airbrushing and some leatherwork too. I think the $90 is money well spent if it is a good tool. I am afraid if I use an inferior tool for something like this I may never venture into detail work, or I may become turned off by airbrushes in general. I'm thinking I can buy alot of the bottles and store my die in them so they are ready to go, easy cleanup. I'm assuming I will need to spray some denatured alcohol or water through the airbrush to clean it after use or between colors, depending on the dye). Perhaps a basic airbrush book would be helpful for this kind of thing. As always, thanks to Dave for the inspiration and help for us Newbies. ~Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomknox Report post Posted December 20, 2009 yeah you'll have to just clean it with water for water-based dye and solvent for the spirit dyes. definayly DO NOT buy a 15 dollor one on ebay! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sideshowelvis Report post Posted December 22, 2009 looks great man, keep the pics comin on that seat Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomknox Report post Posted December 23, 2009 sorry about the delay on the pics guys! i have started lacing the seat and i'll have some pics up later!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomknox Report post Posted December 27, 2009 Heres some more, sorry for the delay! I'm still in the lacing stage, both of my needles broke so i'm stuck now until i get some more. I've learned a few thing and made some mistakes, mainly the problem has been that i cut the pieces a little small. Since i'm using the wrong lace it's made it difficult and i'm glad that i made the holes larger for this lace to get through twice. Also, i used too much length on the lace and it wore it down quickly and made freyed edges, i know now to use smaller lengths while lacing instead of a real long piece. I also need to step it up on the bevel tool, my beveling could use some help i think! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TroyS Report post Posted December 27, 2009 Lookin' good so far!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KenE Report post Posted December 28, 2009 I got the Iwata coming in from the coast place. I got it from them on Ebay with free shipping. The seat looks real nice. I usually don't like the latigo lace, but the way you did it with the basketweave pattern actually looks different and clean. I also bought a 60 Gallon Campbell Hausfeld compressor from Lowes the other day. I'm going to get a low pressure regulator and dessicant unit for it as well. How did you get your background so nice and dark, as well as that deep grid texture? Mine always looks uneven, not very dark, and a fine grid pattern. What tool do you use? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
