Singer 201

[idaholeather]

Have a chance to buy a singer 201 fully serviced for 100 dollars. Im wondering if this will work for sewing leather holsters ect. arthtitus in my hands kills when I handstich.

[Art]

No, it will not, it is a garment machine, give it to the wife for quilting.

Art

Have a chance to buy a singer 201 fully serviced for 100 dollars. Im wondering if this will work for sewing leather holsters ect. arthtitus in my hands kills when I handstich.

[idaholeather]

No, it will not, it is a garment machine, give it to the wife for quilting.

Art

what would you suggest as a starter machine?

[Wizcrafts]

what would you suggest as a starter machine?

A Consew, Juki, Singer, Cobra, Cowboy, National, Neels, or Artisan large M bobbin, compound feed, walking foot, heavy tension spring machine, with a SewPro 500GR servo variable speed-reducer motor, on an industrial table and K-legs, capable of stitching 3/8" leather with up to #207 thread on top and #138 in the bobbin, using a Schmetz 135x16 #23 leatherpoint needle.

[idaholeather]

what model of singer would be good What Im looking for is something that will sew 8-9 oz leather holsters ect. for a couple of hundred dollars cant justify spending a thousand dollars on a machine as it as just a hobby right now

Edited December 18, 2009 by idaholeather

[Wizcrafts]

what model of singer would be good What Im looking for is something that will sew 8-9 oz leather holsters ect. for a couple of hundred dollars cant justify spending a thousand dollars on a machine as it as just a hobby right now

A Singer 111w155 walking foot machine will sew 3/8". It was the last one of the 111 series and about the best. It has no reverse lever though, so you will have to spin the work around to backstitch, or tie the last stitches together underneath and burn the knot with a lighter or soldering iron tip.

A 111w155 can be found for a couple hundred dollars in most places that have upholstery shops. Look for one with a 1/2 hp motor.

You will probably need to buy a smaller pulley for the motor if you do buy a used 111. The standard setup for upholstery is for high speed sewing that is useless on belt leather. It will run away from you and overheat the needle, burning the thread.

If you can find a used Consew walking foot machine you are better off.

[Art]

There are literally 100s of posts on this very subject on this forum. I recommend to all newbies to get a new machine on the first trip, as these are equipped for leather sewing. Or the next best thing is to buy a used LEATHER sewing machine, one that was setup right in the first place. The second time you may go to the used market where you will know what you are doing and not end up with something that requires extensive mods to make it usable for your application, or you will have the knowledge to make those mods yourself.

Art

what would you suggest as a starter machine?

[Wizcrafts]

What Art is referring to as a leather sewing machine is a good point for newbies to stitching. A leather sewing machine is either a modified version of a standard machine, or a specially designed new model, which has a speed reduction motor system, a heavy hand wheel, beefed up moving parts and usually a large bobbin. The stress that carving or belt leather puts on a sewing machine will quickly wear out lesser machines. Home sewing machines cannot stand up to regular leather sewing on anything like a holster or thick belt. They may be able to sew such projects, but not with heavy thread and big needles and not for very long before they go out of wack.

Such items as the take-up lever, the tension springs, thread guides, feed dogs, shuttle and oiling system are more critical for sewing thick material that has a lot of resistance. Those parts need to be replaced with custom made parts that are stronger, to handle the thicker thread and higher tensions needed to sew thread sizes up to #207 into vegtan leather that is 3/8" thick.

The motors on real leather sewing machines are geared way down for slower speed with higher torque. This gives the operator better control over the speed as controlled by the foot pedal that connects to a clutch or servo motor. Clutch motors must be "feathered" by lightly engaging the clutch to sew slowly, a feat in itself, while servo motors are easier to control with foot pedal position (but are more expensive).

You need a lot of penetrating power to push a number 23 needle through 3 layers of 8 oz vegtan holster leather. A 2" pulley on a 1/2 horsepower clutch motor, or a gear reduction servo motor is a must for slow speed piercing power. The faster you sew into hard leather the more heat you generate on the needle. I have seen smoke come from a needle when sewing a belt at about 10 stitches per second (a leather machine usually sews half that speed or less). A hot needle can melt nylon thread or fray polyester. It can scar the top of the leather as it makes the holes. If it gets red hot it will lose its temper and warp or deflect until it hits the shuttle, or bottom plate.

As leather stitchers tend to use large needles, the holes in the bottom cover plate and feed dogs must be larger than on garment machines. Walking foot machines have elongated slots in the feed dog, allowing the needle to move forward and backward as it penetrates the material and feeds it the set stitch length. The adjustable pressure spring for the pressor feet is much heavier on a leather sewing machine that a garment machine. Walking foot machines have two springs, for the inner and outer feet.

If you buy a decent leather machine from a reputable dealer you will get plenty of tips and assistance when you need it. If you buy on eBay or a private sale, you will be on your own to figure out how to adjust the machine.

Some very good machines are available through dealers who are members of this forum. Neel's Saddlery, Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines and Cobra are members of our forum and have some of the best machines, anywhere, for sewing leather.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Wizcrafts

[particle]

You know - there is some very good information in this thread, as well as many other threads on this forum. We really need a sticky with information such as this, because it is a very common question with very expensive answers.

[Wizcrafts]

Have a chance to buy a singer 201 fully serviced for 100 dollars. Im wondering if this will work for sewing leather holsters ect. arthtitus in my hands kills when I handstich.

I meant to reply to this regarding the machine you were considering, but got carried away with the why-nots. I have a Singer 15-91, which is almost identical to a 201, in that they both use the same, built-in motor and gearing system. The only real difference I can see is the placement of the take-up and tensioning parts and thread guides. Since my 15-91 is virtually the same machine I can give you some insight into what it can and cannot sew. Here are some things I have learned about the capabilities of these machines.

• The maximum thickness under the pressor foot is no greater than 5/16", with the tension engaged. The foot can be lifted higher to remove or position the work, but it will not stitch reliably beyond that thickness.
• The machines use home sewing needles, which are usually limited to a maximum size of #18. I did find and buy some #20 needles for the 15-91, but they are rare.
• The thickest thread it can deal with is #69 bonded nylon. I had to reduce the bobbin tension way down to get the knots up into two layers of 8-9 oz belt leather, without over-tightening the top tension disk.
• Over-tightening the top tension disks causes the poor machine to bog down as it tries to pull up the thread.
• This stresses out the take-up arm, to the point I was concerned it might warp or break off.
• The little motor that is built into the body bogs down when trying to penetrate two layers of carving leather. I had to hand wheel a few stitches to get the motor to kick in and take over.
• The motor gets hot as it is forced to sew into leather. It finally smoked and I had to replace it, costing me 50 bucks for a rebuilt motor.
• It took a lot of time and some heavy screwdrivers and lots of hand pressure to disassemble the machine's read end to replace the motor.
• These machines are very old and have old wiring that tends to break when you dink with it. I have to rewire the power block on the back after replacing the motor.
• I had to screw the pressor foot tension spring all the way down to keep the leather from lifting up, when the needle came back up to form stitches. If the leather raised up with the foot, there were skipped stitches.
• The Singer 15- and 201- machines only use feed dogs to advance the material. With the pressor foot tightened all the way down it causes drag on the top layer of leather, or whatever material in being sewn. This drag causes alignment errors between layers and the stitches will vary in length.
• There is only 7" of clearance between the needle and the bottom of the body (on a 15-91). This makes it difficult to rotate thick leather as it is sewn around turns and shapes reaching that size. A pancake holster may well have a side that is over 7 inches long.
• There is about 2" additional clearance that tapers above the inside base. If you can fold the material up into that area you will be able to sew wider projects. If it is too heavy to fold up you will be limited to 7" inside the needlebar.

Here is a photo of a Singer 15-91, which is similar to a 201 model:

With these limitations in mind you should be able to make a more educated decision about what type of sewing machine to look for. Call Bob Kovar at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (Toledo, Ohio), at 866-362-7397, and ask what he has in the warehouse that will fit your needs. I am sure he has used machines that will get you going, at a price that a member of the human race can afford.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Wizcrafts