Leather Reins

[entiendo]

I don't come on this side of the board often, as the only thing I really do is braid but I'd like to ask about flat reins. I have decorated bridles and reins with my kangaroo buttons with nice results. But I have a customer that wants reins that's a little more difficult to find. (9' loop rein) I think this is a nice opportunity to figure out how to make my own reins. I have the ability to cut the straps, though I'm sure it's much more difficult than kangaroo. I suspect that nice reins should be veg tanned but what's the thickness and what part of the hide is used for tack?

[rawhide1]

entiendo

WOW thats one long necked hoss!! By loop rein I assume(I know ass out of u and me) ya mean a roping rein. I like to use harness 15oz. or heavier. I will then split it down to a uniform thickness. If your using conway buckles ya might run into a problem with getting the rein back thru the buckle. I'm not sure of the oz.the rein needs to be to fit back thru the conway buckle. If I need to I just split it down till it fits. When I order from wicket and craig I tell them the length I need and their good about not shipping until they get a hide I can get a couple of long cuts out of. Although to get a nine footer ya may be waiting awhile. The other thing about ordering 15 plus oz. is ya can always split it down if ya need to. But if ya need that weight for say split reins ya have it. I always try and use the back for reins and the belly for headstalls and such. As far as being easy to cut it just depends on the tools ya have. I use a good ole walnut inlaid handled osborne drawgauge alot of folks get by with the wood handle drawgauges and some use a plowgauge. I hop this helped some what if not just ignore it. LOL Just be sure whatever ya use is dang sharp. Best of luck.

Mike

[entiendo]

So you can't cut a cowhide in a spiral pattern so you can get a nice long rein? Well you know those "natural horsemen" they like their reins long. One of my girls use 9' too. The other rides a pony so she doesn't count. I'm finding 9' reins are usually nylon or cotton though.

I wasn't going to use any buckles I was going to use a snap, sinew to secure it and then a nice tight roo button over everything. She also wants roo buttons spaced evenly on the whole length of the reins. Kind of like a set of English reins.

I was actually thinking about 10 oz or so. I wouldn't have thought about 15. So the belly is the better leather? Veg tanned the best?

I have a good cutter but my splitter is just a small one used and designed by a whipmaker. It does a great job on my roo string, but 15 oz cowhide might be something all together different.

[rawhide1]

So you can't cut a cowhide in a spiral pattern so you can get a nice long rein? Well you know those "natural horsemen" they like their reins long. One of my girls use 9' too. The other rides a pony so she doesn't count. I'm finding 9' reins are usually nylon or cotton though.

I wasn't going to use any buckles I was going to use a snap, sinew to secure it and then a nice tight roo button over everything. She also wants roo buttons spaced evenly on the whole length of the reins. Kind of like a set of English reins.

I was actually thinking about 10 oz or so. I wouldn't have thought about 15. So the belly is the better leather? Veg tanned the best?

I have a good cutter but my splitter is just a small one used and designed by a whipmaker. It does a great job on my roo string, but 15 oz cowhide might be something all together different.

The best leather is going to be along the back. I've always straight edged the back and cut the reins as long as I could. Usually 7 to 8 feet in length If a side isn't split by the tannery then the neck area will be the thickest. Which I like for the tail end of split reins for the weight. I've put snaps on them before and instead of the conway buckle I punched holes and used a piece of leather to secure it with. The buttons covering the sinew would look nice. I dont know if folks spiral cut sides I never have but that dont mean others dont and have it work for them. There are 9 foot sides out there but you my have to wait awhile for one.

Best of luck, Mike

[entiendo]

thanks rawhide1. Now I need to know if anyone has cut their hides in a spiral pattern. I guess I can now tell my customer why they don't have many 9' leather roping reins. LOL

[harnessman]

thanks rawhide1. Now I need to know if anyone has cut their hides in a spiral pattern. I guess I can now tell my customer why they don't have many 9' leather roping reins. LOL

Hi

The best leather for reins is English bridle leather. That is what it is made for, though a lot of western riders seem to like the stiffer feel of harness leather, your, or their, choice. For riding reins I normally use 10-12 oz and only cut them out of the back and upper side, which is the strongest least streatchy part of the hide. Personally I would not use belly leather for any part of a bridle as it is too streatchy and weak. If you need really long reins you can lap skive them, about 2 to 3 inches back, and sew two togeather. This is what we do to produce driving reins that are as long as 30+ feet! If done carefully the thickness of the leather will be the same throuout and the splice will be at the center where it is between the hands so it is not really noticed anyway. If you need heavier reins, double them up and stitch them togeather! No, your lace cutter will not cut it (VBG) on bridle leather. Pick up one of the wood handle leather cutters that uses a razor blade, cheap and work well and no learning curve like the draw knives. No, cutting them out of a "round" like you would lace will not work and the leather will make a kinky rein that is unuseable.

Hope this helps

Jim

[entiendo]

Thanks harness man!

[Pqstraub]

Hello.  I have a dilemma.  I found a leather worker on Etsy and after a whole bunch of questions I decided to get him to make me a set of 8’ reins. They’re barbwire stamped and stitched and he suggested and then included some slobber straps. To further match my headstall he added some star conchos.  He told me it might take him awhile to get the veg-tanned hide he was going to need to get the length of reins I wanted. I said that was fine.  I just today after a long wait, got them in the mail.  The reins won’t lay flat. It’s quite apparent that they have been cut in a spiral pattern or at least mostly. There isn’t a single foot in either rein that doesn’t have at least a small curve to it.  I’m just shocked.  I want to complain, I want to send them back.  I would even almost bet they were cut free handed.  I know what y’all do is time consuming and is an art that I will never accomplish even though I have spent a lot of money on tools and I did try to get into it but I just don’t have the gift.  I guess I feel like I don’t have the right to complain.  What would y’all do?

[fredk]

Soak them in water for a few hours, then stretch them out, really stretch them out and let  them dry  and see if that improves the lay

caveat emptor

Edited July 5, 2024 by fredk

[Pqstraub]

Hello Fred, thank you for your reply. If I do what you’re suggesting isn’t that going to completely halt my chances of returning them?  If it doesn’t improve the lay significantly they are still not going to be acceptable and afterwards I won’t be able to return them???

I also have to add. You’re living in one of my favorite countries.  If I couldn’t live in Texas I would like to live in Ireland.

[TomE]

A picture would help to understand how the leather is curling/twisting.  Is it consistent with cutting the reins in a spiral pattern?  That would be a major fail in my book.  Reins should lie flat and have minimal stretch.  Cut lengthwise from the back of the cow.  The split reins below were made from 11 oz harness leather, which is heavy and stretch-resistant, and latigo strings.  I requested a "rein selection" side (= a big cow) from the Hermann Oak tannery and was able to get 3 pr of 7-1/2 ft reins from the top of the side.  Could probably make a few more pair of ~7 ft reins from this side.  Harness leather is stuffed with fats/waxes and doesn't take a stamp particularly well, but it is tough and fairly weather resistant.  Has the right weight and feel according to the folks that use these reins (I mostly make/repair English tack).  If yours don't feel right then I agree you should request your money back.

[fredk]

4 hours ago, Pqstraub said:

Hello Fred, thank you for your reply. If I do what you’re suggesting isn’t that going to completely halt my chances of returning them?  If it doesn’t improve the lay significantly they are still not going to be acceptable and afterwards I won’t be able to return them???

You got what you ordered. etsy ppl do not give guarantees on their workmanship. Returning them and complaining is like shouting at the wind

[Pqstraub]

I must be doing something wrong. I took several pictures of my reins and I tried to attach them but this says they are all too big.  It says max is 1.46mb and my iPad says they are only 1.1mb. I’ll try to take something different with my pictures and try again in a bit.  Thank you Tom. If anyone knows what I did wrong or how to fix it let me know.

[Pqstraub]

Fred that was one of my questions to this guy. He does offer a money back guarantee if your not happy.

[Pqstraub]

Ok now I’m pissed. I got the picture down to 828kb and this dang thing is still telling me I’m not allowed to post over 1.46mb.  I’ve done this before I just need to remember how.  At 66 I may remember and I may not.

[Northmount]

11 hours ago, Pqstraub said:

Ok now I’m pissed. I got the picture down to 828kb and this dang thing is still telling me I’m not allowed to post over 1.46mb.  I’ve done this before I just need to remember how.  At 66 I may remember and I may not.

What type of file are you trying to upload?  jpg, tif, ??  jpg is best.  There might be some useful info below.

If your files are too large to post here due to file size restrictions, you need to resize your files to fit.  Follow this link for some helps and suggestions.  https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/15122-how-to-post-pictures-on-lw/?do=findComment&comment=551171

There are lots of Apps, software, and online tools available on the web, or even built into your device to enable you to reduce your file sizes.  800 pixels in the longest dimension is quite adequate.  Smart phone screens and many monitors don't display high res files in high resolution.  People that live on the fringes of the internet appreciate smaller file sizes and high res photos may take from 10 minutes to hours to download.

[Pqstraub]

Thank you so much for your help. I’ll check out everything you suggested.  I’m pretty sure that my pictures are jpg.  My phone is an iPhone but it’s very old. It’s a version 5.  Yea I know, but unfortunately I’ve never broken it and there’s nothing wrong with it, so I have no excuse to spend the money to get a new one. Anyway I have searched my phone and I can’t find anything that will let me lower the size or resolution. My iPad was the one that allowed me to get it down to 828kb but even that wouldn’t upload onto this site.  I know the problem is me. I’m missing something.  I’ll check everything out and keep trying.  I really need these experts opinions on my reins. And if they need pictures then I’m gonna get them pictures.

Thank you

Paulette

[Pqstraub]

[Pqstraub]

I hope I didn’t make them so dang small you can’t zoom in on them and see the curve.  I did talk to the guy who made them and he told me that he did cut them straight on an 8’ hide but it is the stitching that made them curve.  Have y’all ever had that happen on any long strips or straps or even reins that you have also sewn?  I just don’t know if I believe him.  And the stamping.  I have NEVER seen veg-tan natural leather that has been stamped and then stained, where the stamping wasn’t a lot darker than the rest of the leather.  Not a single stamp is any darker than the rest of the leather and it seems to mostly be very lightly stamped.  I’ll take some closer shots of the stamping.

[bruce johnson]

7 hours ago, Pqstraub said:

I hope I didn’t make them so dang small you can’t zoom in on them and see the curve.  I did talk to the guy who made them and he told me that he did cut them straight on an 8’ hide but it is the stitching that made them curve.  Have y’all ever had that happen on any long strips or straps or even reins that you have also sewn?  I just don’t know if I believe him.  And the stamping.  I have NEVER seen veg-tan natural leather that has been stamped and then stained, where the stamping wasn’t a lot darker than the rest of the leather.  Not a single stamp is any darker than the rest of the leather and it seems to mostly be very lightly stamped.  I’ll take some closer shots of the stamping.

Just a question, did you insert the pictures into the text or add them as an attachment? I can't get them to expand. 

Yes I have had stitching make curves and humps on reins and narrow straps. You go down one side and have a pretty good curve, come back up the other side and it usually evens out, but not always. The needle holes and thread will expand that edge length. The humps can be from sewing over a cylinder arm and not staying flat. Can be tension too. Can be memory from rolling them up after finishing.  Stamping can cause distortion and a narrow strap that like can magnify it. As far as the tool burnish, it can and does go away or lessen with staining or dyeing. It can go away with rewetting too. That is one of the reasons for antiquing. 

 

 

[Pqstraub]

No I put the pictures down below in the area where this app placed them.  I clicked on every picture and it opened up and expanded but because I sent it at the lowest possible choice, as soon as you expanded it, it went out of focus.  I am trying again at the largest possible choice that this will accept.  Thank you for your information.

[Pqstraub]

On 7/7/2024 at 9:42 AM, bruce johnson said:

Just a question, did you insert the pictures into the text or add them as an attachment? I can't get them to expand. 

Yes I have had stitching make curves and humps on reins and narrow straps. You go down one side and have a pretty good curve, come back up the other side and it usually evens out, but not always. The needle holes and thread will expand that edge length. The humps can be from sewing over a cylinder arm and not staying flat. Can be tension too. Can be memory from rolling them up after finishing.  Stamping can cause distortion and a narrow strap that like can magnify it. As far as the tool burnish, it can and does go away or lessen with staining or dyeing. It can go away with rewetting too. That is one of the reasons for antiquing. 

 

 

I had wondered about the tension.  If the tension is correct, from what I know about sewing regular stuff, the stitching will look the same on the top side and on the bottom side.  His didn’t.  I don’t know how that would affect 9/10 ounces leather, but it was consistent throughout all his sewing. I’ll include some pictures to better explain.  He has offered to give me a refund and also offered to make me another set. If I choose to have him make me another set, I think the stitching would be exactly the same so probably best to not do the stitching.  Or the stamping.  So EVERYONE, ANYONE,  what are y’all’s opinions, thoughts, on how wide a pair of reins should be? What ounce would be ideal? I like and want long reins.  At least 8 feet.  I do want them supple enough that if I want to or need to I can tie them together in a loose knot.  I guess lastly what kind of leather is going to have everything I want?  Last of all I wanted to include a couple of pictures that showed the front and the back side of his stitching.  Thank y’all for any and all help and advice.

[sheathmaker]

Having made Many, many sets of reins, my personal and experienced opinion is:

>Harness leather (at least11/12 Oz.) is the BEST for reins due to the hot stuffing.

>Veg tan is a very poor choice Lack of hot stuffing.  much less supple

>Stamping or tooling on reins (veg tan ) is an exercise in futility

>Even heavily oil treated Veg tan will dry out and get stiff fairly quickly

 

Edited July 9, 2024 by sheathmaker

[TomE]

Well said, @sheathmaker.  The newest pictures show knots exposed on the backside of the stitching, and some very rough edges.  Doesn't strike me as a quality job.  Given the workmanship and the curling of the straps I suspect that the quality of the leather might also be an issue.

[Pqstraub]

@sheathmaker , thank you for all of your advice.  I guess that takes care of the leather type and weight.  I was surprised that you didn’t mention bridle leather.  In the several places that I have looked for leather most have a category called bridle leather.  I don’t know anything about it except that I think I remember two of y’all on here mentioning using bridle leather. 
 @TomE , I’m glad I was finally able to figure out the picture problem I was making.  Thank you for reply and help.  
Now I just need to find someone who knows what there doing to make me some 8’ reins and some slobber straps. I bet I could throw a rock and hit several on this website.    Does there happen to be a place on this website where you either post what you would like to have made, or a place where everyone post what there good at and looking for jobs or something? Would it be inappropriate for me to ask one of the experts that have very kindly helped me?  For all that I know, if they wanted to do the job they would have offered or they would be searching that other area looking for jobs they want to do.  I don’t want to back anyone in a corner.

Paulette