Leather Reins

[TomE]

4 hours ago, Pqstraub said:

@sheathmaker , thank you for all of your advice.  I guess that takes care of the leather type and weight.  I was surprised that you didn’t mention bridle leather.  In the several places that I have looked for leather most have a category called bridle leather.  I don’t know anything about it except that I think I remember two of y’all on here mentioning using bridle leather. 
 @TomE , I’m glad I was finally able to figure out the picture problem I was making.  Thank you for reply and help.  
Now I just need to find someone who knows what there doing to make me some 8’ reins and some slobber straps. I bet I could throw a rock and hit several on this website.    Does there happen to be a place on this website where you either post what you would like to have made, or a place where everyone post what there good at and looking for jobs or something? Would it be inappropriate for me to ask one of the experts that have very kindly helped me?  For all that I know, if they wanted to do the job they would have offered or they would be searching that other area looking for jobs they want to do.  I don’t want to back anyone in a corner.

Paulette

Bridle leather has a more refined appearance (glossy surface) and is not as weatherproof as harness leather, which is stuffed with lots of fat/wax.  Bridle leather also has a smooth, pasted back (moss-back) that facilitates maintenance of tack like bridles made from a single layer of leather.    I make reins for English tack out of bridle leather to match the bridles I make.   I agree with @sheathmaker that harness leather is the better choice for western reins.  Good weight and feel, and stands up to abuse.  Hermann Oak Leather Co and Wickett & Craig Leather make nice harness leathers in a variety of colors.  An experienced western tack maker (not me) will have a die to click out the slobber straps in one step.  I would talk with them about the type of leather you want your reins made from.  @Northmount can advise you about a posting to connect with  a "rein maker."  

Edited July 10 by TomE

[bruce johnson]

15 hours ago, Pqstraub said:

I had wondered about the tension.  If the tension is correct, from what I know about sewing regular stuff, the stitching will look the same on the top side and on the bottom side.  His didn’t.  I don’t know how that would affect 9/10 ounces leather, but it was consistent throughout all his sewing. I’ll include some pictures to better explain.  He has offered to give me a refund and also offered to make me another set. If I choose to have him make me another set, I think the stitching would be exactly the same so probably best to not do the stitching.  Or the stamping.  So EVERYONE, ANYONE,  what are y’all’s opinions, thoughts, on how wide a pair of reins should be? What ounce would be ideal? I like and want long reins.  At least 8 feet.  I do want them supple enough that if I want to or need to I can tie them together in a loose knot.  I guess lastly what kind of leather is going to have everything I want?  Last of all I wanted to include a couple of pictures that showed the front and the back side of his stitching.  Thank y’all for any and all help and advice.

I gave up on vegtan reins when I was about 18 years old and showed my last western pleasure horse in buckstitched vegtan reins. No feel, stiff, and get stiffer. Sometime close after that in college I got my first pair of Dennis Moreland harness leather reins. (He is a legend and hero in rein making) Those were all I used for the next 15 or 20 years. Once they broke in - feel, weight at ends, length, durability, the more you used them the better they got - the real deal. About 25 years ago somebody gave me a set of doubled and stitched latigo reins for a gift. These were nice right out of the box! I figured out the weight they used, then made a few pairs for myself - sewn on a Boss hand crank stitcher. Figured a treatment I liked pretty quick and then a set up to pre break them in. A couple people tried them and I was in business. Between an awards order and reins I paid for a powered machine in a month when machines weren't cheap. I was pretty dedicated on making reins for years. I kept them paired up start to finish to keep them equal in feel. I asked for long sides with an 8 in the thickness number m(7/8 or 8/9, I didnt care), no brands, and I didn't care how shallow. I never cut below the break in the hide for reins. Fox Valley latigo was my favorite and after they closed Matt Foster at Maverick Leather got me good latigo sides from Horween.  I made several hundred pairs of split reins, 100 or so roping, barrel racing, and bulldogging reins, and 50 or a little more latigo romal style cowboy reins. 

Width - cutters, reiners, show pleasure, ropers, barrel racer, cowboy, and pleasure-pleasure riders - usually 5/8". Snaffle bitters, bulldoggers, and colt starters - normally 3/4", some 5/8" .Then to further mix it up, A few trainers asked for in-betweens and I started doing 11/16" widths. Those got to be sort of popular with some other folks, especially ladies showing snaffle bitters. I made some 1" but only by order, never as a stock for me or others who sold mine. Maybe 40 pairs of 1 inch if that.  Romals were a contract deal and either 1/2 inch or scant 5/8" reins with 3/4" romal.

Length - 6-1/2"  for a few juniors, lots in the 7 to 7-1/2 foot range for colt starters, some snaffle bitters/western pleasure/some reiners/pleasure/cowboys and trail riders. 7-1/2 to 8 footers for the rest of show pen snaffle bitters, cutters, and reiners. 

 

 

[Northmount]

24 minutes ago, TomE said:

 @Northmount can advise you about a posting to connect with  a "rein maker."  

Post in Marketplace > wanted

[Pqstraub]

@Northmount , thank you for the post on where to post.

Paulette

[Pqstraub]

@bruce johnson ,  those reins you put in the pictures, they are both stitched and they look as straight as a ruler. Can you tell me if the ones I have are so bad just because of well is the difference all of it?  The weight, the width, bad quality leather, and the stitching, that ruined my reins?  I also was wondering if you could tell me or show me a better picture of how those poppers are attached to those reins.  When I got up real close it got to blurry to see.

Thank you very much!!

Paulette

[Northmount]

@Pqstraub et all, moved this thread to Saddle and Tack Accessory Items

[bruce johnson]

8 hours ago, Pqstraub said:

@bruce johnson ,  those reins you put in the pictures, they are both stitched and they look as straight as a ruler. Can you tell me if the ones I have are so bad just because of well is the difference all of it?  The weight, the width, bad quality leather, and the stitching, that ruined my reins?  I also was wondering if you could tell me or show me a better picture of how those poppers are attached to those reins.  When I got up real close it got to blurry to see.

Thank you very much!!

Paulette

Paulette, the poppers were usually cut from the lower belly middle of the sides. The top edge was lapskived and they were sandwiched between the rein ends. They were sewn 3-4” with backstitching at the start and end of the stitch lines.

there are several areas that could be in play with your reins. Wanting to have them stamped pretty much limits you to veg tan and that is probably the biggest factor. There are a lot of things you fight making, using, storing, and maintaining veg tan reins. To be honest I never made any because as a user I didn’t like them. Personal preference 

[Pqstraub]

@bruce johnson I’m out of time.  Meaning I have everything I need to start riding again except for a set of 8’ reins. Heck right now I don’t have any reins except the ones that guy made for me and I would be embarrassed to use them.  I had had some unwanted extra time when I had a stupid accident and I severely bruised two of my ribs.  They didn’t break but I sure felt like they had.  Anyway if it isn’t inappropriate to ask, here, what would you charge me to make me some reins?  I think I would be interested in having those poppers on them as well.  I’d love to have them in stitched but I’d really just like them to be supple and a nice weight and feel.  Stitching would be great but….  
Thank you

Paulette

[bruce johnson]

@pqstraub As much as I’d like to, I don’t make reins or do leatherwork anymore, just sell tools to the folks that do. My picks  would be Taylor Meeske or Tyler Shupe. Both are  around the horse business a lot and have good stuff. https://www.shoptmleather.com/

 https://tylershupeleather.com/

[Pqstraub]

@bruce johnson Thank you very much.  I figured if YOU weren’t still making reins, you could point me in some direction and you gave me two!

Thank you very much,

Paulette

[Pqstraub]

On 7/9/2024 at 9:50 PM, bruce johnson said:

I kept them paired up start to finish to keep them equal in feel. I asked for long sides with an 8 in the thickness number m(7/8 or 8/9, I didnt care), no brands, and I didn't care how shallow. I never cut below the break in the hide for reins. Fox Valley latigo was my favorite and after they closed Matt Foster at Maverick Leather got me good latigo sides from Horween.

I was wondering if you wouldn’t mind explaining, well, most of the stuff I copied.  It seems extremely weird to say "you kept them paired up from start to finish to keep them equal in feel". Being an extreme newbie, I would think it obvious you would keep a pair you cut out together, but maybe what I’m missing is that some straps even when cut right next to each other can maybe not be as equally as supple??  In the next sentence I understood most, I think. You said you asked for long sides with an 8 in the ??THICKNESS?? I assumed there you meant length?  Then you said you didn’t care how shallow. I’m going to take a stab at guessing and say that shallow on a hide means how hmm..short the leather is that is coming down from the back area and in between the leg area?? I have seen some hides that seem to be very full on each side to the point that it’s almost a straight line across and others that have a huge scoop and the best word to describe that is shallow. Next you say you never cut below the break in the hide for reins.  Where is this "break" located?  And why not cut below it for reins?  Is it just for the reason that any cuts below the break would be to short for any reins?  Lastly, someone somewhere in my life told me, apparently very wrongly, that latigo leather had only one purpose, to make the thin strips on saddles, who’s only purpose is to look pretty.  Boy were they wrong.  Unfortunately I think the person who told me that was my Dad when I was about 12.  So is latigo leather stuffed like harness?  Thank you

Paulette

[Pqstraub]

@bruce johnson I guess I didn’t realize I answered all my questions, well almost all.  There was still a couple of things you mentioned that I didn’t have a clue what they meant and a few tons of things I need to learn.  One of the things that I never even considered that I might need to learn and understand further is the wording or language that everyone I have texted with seems to have engrained in themselves.  With you it has probably grown on you from day one, and probably has been a little fun along the way.  You say in the short bio that everyone can see that you have been here since day one.  I did something similar.  I got on a game that also had an area in the game where you could chat with other players.  I started playing that and chatted from close to day one and got very familiar with the vocabulary we used and we taught it to newbies.  It was a lot of fun until the developers changed a whole bunch of stuff then it got to be so much a drag I finally quit.  I would be a lot smarter and possibly happier if I had stayed with this site when I first signed up, instead.  Hindsight..     I texted Tyler Shupe, then called him, but he was at some kind of show event at his booth and he said he would call me back.  Then the horrible ordeal happened with President Trump and he didn’t get back to me until the following day.  I stupidly missed his call but I’ll call him tomorrow during the day.  The reins you said were great right out of the box, you meant they were already soft and supple?  Can you tell me again so I can at least ask Mr Shupe, if he can make me some 8’ reins like them?  The weight, width and I think you said to use Latigo leather. And the stitching.  The pictures you posted of that set are just amazing, beautiful.  Thank you for helping me.

Paulette

[bruce johnson]

On 7/11/2024 at 12:38 AM, Pqstraub said:

I was wondering if you wouldn’t mind explaining, well, most of the stuff I copied.  It seems extremely weird to say "you kept them paired up from start to finish to keep them equal in feel". Being an extreme newbie, I would think it obvious you would keep a pair you cut out together, but maybe what I’m missing is that some straps even when cut right next to each other can maybe not be as equally as supple??  In the next sentence I understood most, I think. You said you asked for long sides with an 8 in the ??THICKNESS?? I assumed there you meant length?  Then you said you didn’t care how shallow. I’m going to take a stab at guessing and say that shallow on a hide means how hmm..short the leather is that is coming down from the back area and in between the leg area?? I have seen some hides that seem to be very full on each side to the point that it’s almost a straight line across and others that have a huge scoop and the best word to describe that is shallow. Next you say you never cut below the break in the hide for reins.  Where is this "break" located?  And why not cut below it for reins?  Is it just for the reason that any cuts below the break would be to short for any reins?  Lastly, someone somewhere in my life told me, apparently very wrongly, that latigo leather had only one purpose, to make the thin strips on saddles, who’s only purpose is to look pretty.  Boy were they wrong.  Unfortunately I think the person who told me that was my Dad when I was about 12.  So is latigo leather stuffed like harness?  Thank you

Paulette

I kept them paired up for equal thicknesses and feel. As far as thickness, yes that is what I meant. I bought 7/8 or 8/9 oz sides. Shallow is the top of the back to belly dimension. The "break" is where the leaher goes from firm to more stretchy. A 3rd generation leather distributor showed me how to check that. Basically fold the side up from the bottom and where it naturally wants to fold is the "break". Above that is firmer leather. Latigo is oiled and depending on source may be waxed as well. I dipped mine in olive oil for added oil and weight and then let them hang for a day before I worked them.  

[bruce johnson]

7 hours ago, Pqstraub said:

@bruce johnson I guess I didn’t realize I answered all my questions, well almost all.  There was still a couple of things you mentioned that I didn’t have a clue what they meant and a few tons of things I need to learn.  One of the things that I never even considered that I might need to learn and understand further is the wording or language that everyone I have texted with seems to have engrained in themselves.  With you it has probably grown on you from day one, and probably has been a little fun along the way.  You say in the short bio that everyone can see that you have been here since day one.  I did something similar.  I got on a game that also had an area in the game where you could chat with other players.  I started playing that and chatted from close to day one and got very familiar with the vocabulary we used and we taught it to newbies.  It was a lot of fun until the developers changed a whole bunch of stuff then it got to be so much a drag I finally quit.  I would be a lot smarter and possibly happier if I had stayed with this site when I first signed up, instead.  Hindsight..     I texted Tyler Shupe, then called him, but he was at some kind of show event at his booth and he said he would call me back.  Then the horrible ordeal happened with President Trump and he didn’t get back to me until the following day.  I stupidly missed his call but I’ll call him tomorrow during the day.  The reins you said were great right out of the box, you meant they were already soft and supple?  Can you tell me again so I can at least ask Mr Shupe, if he can make me some 8’ reins like them?  The weight, width and I think you said to use Latigo leather. And the stitching.  The pictures you posted of that set are just amazing, beautiful.  Thank you for helping me.

Paulette

Paulette,

Yes, I joined this forum on the first day. We've had changes over the years, social media wasn't much if anything back then but we see how much of a force that is now. Still this group is solid and searchable for topics from several years ago. I have shared with Tyler how I made reins and I am sure that he will do a good job for you.  

[Pqstraub]

@bruce johnson THANK YOU SIR!  That was a very kind thing for you to do.  I’ll try not to trouble you any further but I can’t make any promises.  I made my husband a wallet a long time ago and he really liked it and kept using it until it was falling apart and you could barely see all of my carving and stamping.  I told him I’d make him another one but I just haven’t done it YET! 
Thank you again.

Paulette