Breast Collar Set Ups

[joe59]

jdalberta1, I'm not a fan of your breast collar for the simple fact that when your horse goes to drink it looks like you'll be inhibiting his wind pipe... No? Sorry, just not a fan

When you guys are talking about attaching to the latigo, do you mean the actual latigo or to the latigo D ring? Sorry, little confused here... ! LOL

I agree roping-style breast collars are best in the hills. And after climbing a real steep incline, I ALWAYS reset my saddle. It doesn't seem to matter how tight you've got your cinches, climbing sttpe inclines always moves your saddle back. This not only allows relief for my horse as the breast collar will have tightened up putting pressure on his windpipe, but also gives him a chance to catch his breath. Again JMO.

And I futher agree that knowledge of properly fitting, properly used tack is of the upmost importance, starting at what could be the most important part, the saddle pad.

Really great points made on here - glad everyone is putting their two-cents worth.

Hooligan,

I'm sorry that I don't know how to post pictures. I will try to explain.

With the hanger(the strap that goes over the neck) adjusted correctly, the breast collar should be at the point of the shoulder. I use a half breed on the off side of my saddle and the tug wraps around it. After I pull my latigo the near side tug wraps around it. Looking at the breast collar, it should be level with little if any contact with the chest.

Hope this helps.

JOE

[Denise]

Joe, here is a thread on how to post pictures here. It would be great if you could get pictures up. I think it would really help a lot of people understand more of what you are saying.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=15122

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

I'm finding this thread interesting and decided to toss my two cents worth in. I prefer to use a roper style breast collar, both for working and for pleasure riding....partly because that is mostly what we used when I was growing up, partly because I think it does a better job. We did use tripping style collars some while working but most everyone I was around used roper style breast collars. I personally don't see the advantage s of a tripping collar in everyday use.

I think a lot of folks worry too much about shoulder restriction with breast collars. To me the degree of restriction they are worried about just doesn't exist...or...they are relying on breast collars to compensate for improperly fitting and improperly cinched saddles which move way too much... and I think this is more often the case. A properly fitting and properly cinched saddle should not move a lot! I whole heartedly agree with using back cinches and dismiss the arguments against them as pure bunk! Additionally I have seen a couple of folks get in trouble with ill-fitting martingale supports when their horse puts his head down and the martingale falls too far forward...that just isn't my favorite setup. For me a properly fitted and adjusted roper/pulling style breast collar fills the bill.

There is another factor which comes in to play and I don't know how to put this without it sounding bad. That is there are an awful lot of pleasure riders and horse enthusiasts who are just not knowledgeable about their horses or their equipment....primarily because they are constantly mislead down at the local tack & feed store by the delivery driver who is filling in on the sales floor for the gal who normally works there and who learned from the old delivery driver! Consequently they develop opinions and points of few based on false premises learned from other uninformed enthusiasts and shop owners. Well intentioned riders are often sold ill fitting, substandard equipment and when their saddle with one cinch slides all over their horses back and makes him sore they are sold a thicker saddle pad and an ill fitting breast collar to fix the problem! You can see where I'm going here. It's a darn tough deal for someone just starting out!

Anyway, I could get real carried away here, but that's my take on the use of breast collars.....

Bobby

Bob, I agree with you completely. While I always make matching breast collars and rear cinches with my saddles, it is because most customers want it that way. Generally, I only use one on my saddle when I am out in public cause I like to show off my work, it is my way of advertising, but; when I am just out for a ride, or excersizing my own horse at home, I leave the extra stuff hanging on the wall. I have found that if a saddle fits right, it will stay put, even without a lot of chinch tightening. It takes extreme use like cutting, roping, or real trail riding in steep up and down trails, before the need is really there, and at that, I am not even sure. Besides, I would rather see the horse. To me , like Tom T. Hall, there is nothing more pleasing than a well put up horse, younger women, older whiskey, or more money---in that order!

Bondo Bob

[jdalberta1]

Well thanks for all the info so far. Not surprisingly there are a diverse set of opinions coming in and I like that. As with most internet information the answer sought is often found by shifting through the wheat and chafe so to speak and taking the middle road. Again my answer is focused on riding in primarily mountainous terrain so flatish country breast collar usage doesn't factor in so much...I think?

I personally try to avoid overuse of tack and gimicks preferring a clean uncluttered rig. Having said that let me flesh out my particular situation so that folks with similar experiences can hopefully continue to share in this exchange. In packing situations I`ve always run by necessity breastcollars and britchin'. For riding once in a while a crupper will go on a saddlehorse but not unless the snug rear cinch doesn't do the job. So that boils down mainly to saddle fit and conformation issues in my experience thus far anyway.

A few key points:

The horse I currently am riding is a 16.2 Morgan/Belgian cross with slightly uphill conformation. He's a fat fella this winter, low withered and barrelly. My saddle leaves even sweat marks with no signs of bridging or point loading. Without a breastcollar It does move back on uphills. The saddlebags are large which adds up to a rig that weighs around 45lbs. The padding set up for this guy is a 1" felt pad under a thin single layer wool blanket.

I`ll try out a roping collar to see how that compares. I`m curious to see how that style of breast collar with the high attachment points will work on hills. Could anyone explain the difference between the old school martingale breast collar which buckles over the the neck and attaches to the saddle up high via a small tug on either side and your typical roping collar which does not go over the neck but also attaches high on or nere the pommel? I like the look of the way those old martingales sit. Go figure?

My understanding thus far is that high attachment points are in general designed for horn stability where as low attachment is better suited to pulling or hill work.

Chances are I`ll be riding more typically conformed quarter horse types this spring and summer so i`m hoping that once I can settle on the breast collar esign that works for hill riding , I`ll be able to use it on both draft crosses and smaller quarter horse types...seems reasonable.

Here's a pic of the horse and tripping breast colllar I`m using right now. I just added a doubled over vertical strip of latigo with 1" D's for a cinch connector and tie down if ever need. So far I haven't used the breast collar/front cinch connector but I`ll try this the next ride so as to judge it's effectiveness in keeping the collar position level and keeping the esophagus unrestricted on uphills. Hopefully a riding partner will be able to take a few shots so all this is a little less subjective.

Please keep the viewpoints coming folks. I really appreciate you sharing your hard won insights. The longer I can consider myself a green rider looking for answers the longer I`ll remain open to learning. Is there such a thing as an overly unoppionated horseperson?

Edited March 10, 2010 by jdalberta1

[CeilingUnlimited]

I personally like the hard elastic polo type breast plates that I covered with thick sheep's wool. I've attached both off the rigging and the cinch using a heavy duty made English type girth loop. Worked great every time I used it,and when riding up steep hills,the breast plate wasn't able at all to dig into his windpipe.

[oltoot]

Not having read all the posts, I apologize if I am just repeating what someone has already offered. From what I have read I would say that it sounds like there are a wide range of opinions and experiences and so why not add one more. All, of course, is IMHO. When I was younger and packed quite a bit I made my packsaddle breast collars like the ones I used with my working saddle not the other way around. How was that you might ask. Sorry no pictures but I promise not to take a thousand words to make up for it. Well, before I go on, let me share a few observations from long years of using, making and repairing things. I only remember 1 or 2 BCs where the body broke, it was always the straps so I have turned to lighter collars with stronger straps though I do make some collar bodies bigger than they need to be just to have room for tooling to match a saddle or space to put letters; next generality, I've seen a few things sore horses and have eliminated them from my bag of tricks. Packer breast collars made straight with 4 inch webbing bodies dont stay flat very long. They get countoured in front by the horse's neck. Lesson: wide and flat doesn't cut it even if there are a dozen extras hanging in the barn. The breast straps used by polo players, 3 day eventers, etc are pretty lightly constructed, attach very high up on the saddle, have a ring in the middle and the strap from that ring that goes between the front legs to the girth is kept snug. So what's my conclusion. The preceeding observation that a well fitting rig with the right kind of pad stays pretty well put was very pertinent. If a breast collar can just help that all out a little in a balanced fashion it doesn't need to be very heavy. Hint: Stand your favorite pony up with a saddle on and take a magic marker and draw lines from the front conchos down in a V that converges just enough below his windpipe to let him put his head down then draw a straight line from the V point back between his front legs to the dee on your cinch. Now walk him around including up and down some steep little pitches and keep your eyes on those lines. You will notice that his legs move freely as does his neck. Voila, you have designed a well fitting, functional collar. A dee ring (without the so called chafe) goes in the middle and the collar body ends up on the large, relatively flat, pretty much non-moving part of his anatomy. You will probably have to have attachment dees put on your saddle up that high unless you have one of the newer rigs that already feature them there. NOTE: they dont need to be super stout either if they're canted down to match the angle that that line you drew meets your saddle at. AND besure to keep the cinch connector snug, not hanging down so the rig will maintain a balanced 3 point alignment. That's what I think about this.

[Outlaw68]

jdalberta1

Okay, I know this doesn't have to do with the topic, but there are many good answers on here, so I won't try to answer the question, I just have to ask, what breed and size is that pony in the picture? She's so cute and looks a lot like mine. Because of the camera angle and it only showing just a tiny bit of her I can't tell.