Leather Rifle Rests

[particle]

Okay - this is my first post here, so please - be gentle!!

Recently I have gotten back into shooting (rifles). I have a few different styles of rifles, and quickly got frustrated with the standard range bags typically provided at the local shooting ranges - so I designed my own. It's still a work in progress, but I've shown my prototypes around to various people and have gotten very positive feedback. These are made of 3-4 oz suede, and stitched on my wife's Riccar sewing machine. It's not really fond of sewing 2 layers of suede (even with leather needles), and then when I toss the nylon webbing in, .... well, it went on strike.

I sent it to the repair shop, but it sews leather even worse than it did before (it's flawless with standard fabrics). It also frays the thread, skips stitches, and flat out has a poor attitude about life in general!!!!

Anyway, I'm looking to purchase a new machine - probably the Sailrite LS-1 or the Consew CP206R. I would really prefer a needle feed to help climb over the webbing, but I can't afford one right now. There is a Consew 225 selling locally for $300 that was serviced in January 2008, but my wife doesn't want a big machine and table like that (and frankly, it's too fast and we just don't have room for one that big).

Here is my rifle rest. Please don't pay too close attention to the stitch quality - these are just prototypes on an improper machine. They will ultimately be double stitched, but I haven't gotten any good stitches lately, and can't photograph anything.

Now, here are my questions...

Is there perhaps a better leather that would be easier to sew? Or will the walking foot solve my inconsistent stitch length issues that I'm currently having with my wife's Riccar - particularly when I hit the nylon webbing and the foot has to climb up and over that ledge - it almost comes to a complete stop and I have to push it through.

Where can I get good prices on leather? I'm currently buying from my local Tandy, but paying about $3.60/sf. I plan on getting a tax I.D. number but haven't gotten around to it yet. I bought some odd-lots for $2.60/sf, but obviously I can't get the same color and tannery consistency with odd-lots.

One person reviewing my rests commented that the suede really grips the rifle, and that was a huge bonus for him. He also stated that dirt and grass and stuff brushes right off and cleans up very easily before he tosses it in his range bag. I worry that if I switch to another kind of leather I'll lose the grippy quality, and the individual pouches will slide off of each other too easily.

I would really appreciate your thoughts on my rests. I probably should have joined this forum before I even started these flippin' things!!

If you want to see the site I've devoted to them, check out www.fliprest.com

Thanks, and I look forward to your feedback and suggestions.

Eric

Aubrey, TX

[TwinOaks]

First off, Welcome!!! We're glad you joined. Very nice work on those. As you've seen, and had to pay to fix, home machines aren't the best for leather. Check out the 'sewing leather' sub-forum, and I'm sure you'll be able to find advice on which types of machine to invest in. And don't worry about having odd lot coloring- the sales pitch for that is "distinctive".

[particle]

the sales pitch for that is "distinctive".

LOL! I hadn't thought of that! I figured once I get a good machine, I'll go ahead and order a few hides and sew up a few to have on hand, and to get some more practice in. Then, I'll post the good ones for sale on my website, and hand out the others to people to review, and keep or pass around to get more feedback of features and such.

I have checked out the Machine portion of the site - lots of good info.

One thing I've really noticed is that it's next to impossible to find good promotional materials, or even specifications and features lists on 95% of the machines out there. Ebay is the best bet, but you can't trust the information all of the time. The Sailrite machines at least have a good website, user forum, usage videos, and apparently good customer support. When I find a machine I like, I try to show pictures of them to my wife, but it doesn't take long to notice everyone uses the same low quality photos - even in Craigslist and Ebay listings!

[Luke Hatley]

particle get the consew 225.... accept the larger table, you will get accustom to the speed over a period of time.

or you can change the belt pulley on the motor to slow it down a little.

the 225 with leather needle and 138 size thread will do you well. that is a good price for the machine.

i have one and i will not part with it....

[Ian]

I'd second Luke's opinion on the Consew , especially if it's one of the old Japanese made machines- I have an old 206 RB and a 105 - they're great. I also have a Sailrite knock-off, but with the same motor, and it's just not strong enough for almost anything I do, and the stitch length doesn't stay consistent when you sew thicker material.

I think Sailrites are overpriced - I'd go for a table machine if I were you, and don't worry about the speed, you will learn how to sew slowly with a bit of practice, and you can later buy a Servo motor for around 300 bucks, to reduce the speed, and you'll still be cheaper than the Sailrite

Weaver's price for 3/4oz suede is 1.78 a foot and $1.67 for 2/3oz once you get your tax number

Ian

[particle]

Well, I snoozed and lost that Consew. There is a Glaco Astra for sale locally, though she is asking $500. All I can find is that they're similar to the Consew 225. Can anyone tell me anything about the Glaco Astra? It comes with the table and a "big" motor. I asked her to send me pictures, but would appreciate any information ya'll can provide.

The Consew was about 2 hours from me, and with the cost of gas and the headache of driving my 4x4 V8 suv to get the machine, I guess it's not too big of a loss. This Glaco is literally 10 minutes from my house.

Should I jump on this, or pass on it?

[Ian]

Should I jump on this, or pass on it?

I've never heard of it, but would take some pieces of your suede and go over and check it out. If you have some 138 thread, take that and see how it sews

[Luke Hatley]

YES SEW FIRST............SEVERAL OF THE RESTS..............

find out the needle size..... then make sure that larger needle sizes can be got for that

machine.

Edited April 12, 2008 by Luke Hatley

[particle]

Here is the only information I can find on it. Also, there is a Juki for sale about 2 hours away for $500 (the same price as the Glaco that's only 10 minutes away), and it looks identical so I guess it's a Juki 562. Should I drive the two hours and just buy the Juki? It was used in a small business that manufactured a few leather products and then discontinued that operation and the machines weren't needed anymore.

http://www.sanger-sewingmachinevideos.com/available.html

DVD 66: Industrial Upholstery Walking Foot Machine

This DVD will show you how to disassemble, clean, oil, reset, and retime upholstery walking foot sewing machines. This Glaco works the same way as Consew 225 and 226, Singer 111W, and Jukie 562.

DVD #66 is $59.50

Edited April 12, 2008 by particle

[RoughRider]

Particle,

Sent you a PM

RoughRider

[Ian]

If it's a Juki walking foot, I'd definitely go for it if I were you. $500 is a good price

[Art]

Yes, drive 2 hours, test out the Juki and buy it if it is in good shape. Same machine class as the 225 and Singer 111. all the available cheap 111 feet fit it and parts are available.

Art

Here is the only information I can find on it. Also, there is a Juki for sale about 2 hours away for $500 (the same price as the Glaco that's only 10 minutes away), and it looks identical so I guess it's a Juki 562. Should I drive the two hours and just buy the Juki? It was used in a small business that manufactured a few leather products and then discontinued that operation and the machines weren't needed anymore.

http://www.sanger-sewingmachinevideos.com/available.html

[/b]

[particle]

Well, I missed out on the Consew 225 for $300. Couldn't get in touch with a lady selling the Juki version for $500 (it's still listed in Alvarado, TX if you're looking for one), and stumbled across a Consew 206rb - I think it's series one, but what the heck do I know.... Last night, my wife was helping me search, and she found it. Called the guy today, and we agreed on $650 - I'm picking it up tomorrow. This is the pic they had on their listing.

Did I get a good deal?

I'm happy about it - can't wait to get it. The guy hasn't used it much since 1996, but used it a few months ago on a small project.

My question is this - I'm pretty hands on with my power tools. I like to know how things work, and am not afraid to dig in and work on stuff. I've seen a couple of DVDs for sale (which I'm sure you all know about), but I found one that specifically relates to this machine.

http://www.how-to-videos.info/Home.html

They only have one video, and it just so happens to be for this particular machine. Since the machine hasn't been used much in the last decade, I figure it's probably in need of some TLC. I'm hoping the thing isn't rusted to pieces internally, but I'll find out tomorrow. Is this a good DVD, or is there a better one out there I haven't found yet?

Edit to add: I'm looking for a DVD that will show me how to tear the thing apart, maintain it, repair it, thread it, etc.

Edited April 14, 2008 by particle

[Regis]

I've only read good about them but, if I were you, I would use/test it FIRST at the seller's place before buying. Make sure YOU like it. Was he using for leather or canvas? If he bought it new and for personal use you probably did ok. I think I've seen some folks here on the forum that have one and can advise you better. You might post a question with Consew 206rb in the subject,

[Ian]

Well, I missed out on the Consew 225 for $300. Couldn't get in touch with a lady selling the Juki version for $500 (it's still listed in Alvarado, TX if you're looking for one), and stumbled across a Consew 206rb - I think it's series one, but what the heck do I know.... Last night, my wife was helping me search, and she found it. Called the guy today, and we agreed on $650 - I'm picking it up tomorrow. This is the pic they had on their listing.

Did I get a good deal?

I'm happy about it - can't wait to get it. The guy hasn't used it much since 1996, but used it a few months ago on a small project.

My question is this - I'm pretty hands on with my power tools. I like to know how things work, and am not afraid to dig in and work on stuff. I've seen a couple of DVDs for sale (which I'm sure you all know about), but I found one that specifically relates to this machine.

http://www.how-to-videos.info/Home.html

They only have one video, and it just so happens to be for this particular machine. Since the machine hasn't been used much in the last decade, I figure it's probably in need of some TLC. I'm hoping the thing isn't rusted to pieces internally, but I'll find out tomorrow. Is this a good DVD, or is there a better one out there I haven't found yet?

Edit to add: I'm looking for a DVD that will show me how to tear the thing apart, maintain it, repair it, thread it, etc.

I have a 206 rb. That sucker is so strong, you can sew 8oz bridle leather with it. Can't speak for the price because I got an unheard of deal a few years back, but if you're looking for one of the best walking foot machines ever made (according to my machine repair guy) that's the one to get. I know that you won't be restricting yourself to rifle rests, you'll be wanting to learn all kinds of stuff, so you might as well get something that is versitile. Of course, it's not made for sewing heavy harness leather or anything like that, but I do just about everything else with it, from truck bed covers to putting zippers in jackets and chaps. And, I bet it will outlive me.

Here's a picture of stitches on a hunk of 9/11oz latigo, 4 thicknesses of 3/4oz suede and 6 thicknesses of 3oz chrome tanned (kind of stretching it)

[Art]

Be careful sewing heavy leather or multiple heavy leathers with the medium duty/upholstery/canvas/sailmakers/trimmers machines. They will sew the heavy stuff; I have sewn up to about 23oz veg tan with the Artisan 618 SC-1 LTHR (LTHR means it has a speed reducer on it which is kind of important with heavy sewing). The place you have to be careful is when walking the machine uphill or downhill (changing thickness). When the machine walks uphill or downhill (downhill is when it usually happens) it can put a lot of sideways shear on the needle and a little 110 or 120 needle just won't take it. Not a biggie, but make sure you find ALL of the needle as pieces can end up in the shuttle race which can gall that up if left in there.

The 226RB was made in Japan and if still tight it will outlast you. Parts aren't terribly expensive either.

Art

I have a 206 rb. That sucker is so strong, you can sew 8oz bridle leather with it. Can't speak for the price because I got an unheard of deal a few years back, but if you're looking for one of the best walking foot machines ever made (according to my machine repair guy) that's the one to get. I know that you won't be restricting yourself to rifle rests, you'll be wanting to learn all kinds of stuff, so you might as well get something that is versitile. Of course, it's not made for sewing heavy harness leather or anything like that, but I do just about everything else with it, from truck bed covers to putting zippers in jackets and chaps. And, I bet it will outlive me.

Here's a picture of stitches on a hunk of 9/11oz latigo, 4 thicknesses of 3/4oz suede and 6 thicknesses of 3oz chrome tanned (kind of stretching it)

[particle]

Thanks for the replies fellas. The guy purchased it brand new in 1986 and used it for his small at home upholstery business. My main concern is rust if it's been sitting a while, but I'll find out tomorrow when I go look at it.

About how much money will I be looking at to switch to a servo motor? And at that point, will a speed reducer be necessary? I don't foresee needing much speed anytime soon - my pieces are only 6" long right now. I'd rather have slow and steady than fast and crazy.

Something my wife has been concerned about lately is one comment that mentioned (in another thread somewhere) these things leaking oil like a Harley. Are they really prone to leaking oil? I'll be setup in our study for a while, which has carpet floors...

[Regis]

Artisan has servo motors for $145.00 but, I wouldn't know about any adapters to fit your machine & table. They can probably help you.

[Art]

I think it should have a drip pan underneath the head, they only drip if you over oil them (which is not necessarily a bad thing, better than under oiling). Servo motor is nice, add a speed reducer and it can be quite slow if you want it and half-fast if you turn it up. You can get by with just a slow (1725 rpm) clutch motor if you have to, they did it for years. The 3450 rpm motors are too fast for leatherwork except on assembly lines. When you get the servo motor, get the smallest pulley available, poor man's speed reducer; and get the 3/4hp (550 watt) servo motor to make up for not having the speed reducer, it's only about $10 more.

Art

Thanks for the replies fellas. The guy purchased it brand new in 1986 and used it for his small at home upholstery business. My main concern is rust if it's been sitting a while, but I'll find out tomorrow when I go look at it.

About how much money will I be looking at to switch to a servo motor? And at that point, will a speed reducer be necessary? I don't foresee needing much speed anytime soon - my pieces are only 6" long right now. I'd rather have slow and steady than fast and crazy.

Something my wife has been concerned about lately is one comment that mentioned (in another thread somewhere) these things leaking oil like a Harley. Are they really prone to leaking oil? I'll be setup in our study for a while, which has carpet floors...

[particle]

I have a 206 rb.

Ian, the post that I bought my machine from states the machine uses DPxl 7 Standard Needle #22.

What do you buy, and where do you get them? Any suggestions for a good, outdoor rated thread? I want something fairly heavy - my guess is 69 or heavier (I like the exposed thread look).

I'm sewing (2) layers of 3-4 ounce suede - I have no idea how it's tanned nor do I even know what the differences are yet. I will also need to sew nylon webbing - does this require a special needle?

I have much to learn, oh great ones!

[Ian]

Ian, the post that I bought my machine from states the machine uses DPxl 7 Standard Needle #22.

What do you buy, and where do you get them? Any suggestions for a good, outdoor rated thread? I want something fairly heavy - my guess is 69 or heavier (I like the exposed thread look).

I'm sewing (2) layers of 3-4 ounce suede - I have no idea how it's tanned nor do I even know what the differences are yet. I will also need to sew nylon webbing - does this require a special needle?

I have much to learn, oh great ones!

If you have a tax number get a Weaver catalog - one of the best, I think for hardware, thread and needles, webbing and some of leather. Your machine will sew 138 thread well, which is what you'll probably want for your rifle rests. Also the heavier stitches look nice too. I'd suggest getting a foot with an edge guide - it makes it easy to sew exact distances from the edge. I think they come in 1/8", 1/4" and 3/8. Makes a nice pro-looking straight seam.

PS, suede is the underside of garment leather after the smooth top has been split off.- thats why it is cheaper than top grain garment leather.

Good Luck