New Wade Saddle Got Me Bucked Off All Weekend

[jwwright]

It's hard to make judgements based on photos alone, but......your horse looks to have a good back shape, and keeping a saddle in place on her should be no problem, provided the saddle is a decent fit. I would agree with the others, also in saying that you are indeed trying to place the saddle too far forward. Again, hard to judge from just these photos, but your new saddle looks to have the rigging at about 3/4 position, while your previous saddle looks to be rigged slightly forward of what I would call the Full position. As for having a qualified saddle maker, such as the person you mentioned, look at it........good idea. As I previously said, I'd be happy to take a look at no charge, if you can come here. I will say that if there is an obvious defect in the saddle, such as the gullet liner or skirt plug improperly skived and fitted.............you should visit with the folks you bought it from. I would bet that they would want to make it right, and the shipping cost for you to ship it to Texas will be much cheaper than if you pay a qualified person to the repair. JW

Edited April 7, 2010 by jwwright

[mulefool]

You probably don't need one more person saying the same thing, but I've got to agree it looks like you placed it too far forward. As far as the lump you are describing, if it is indeed a defect, frankly I think the maker should not only fix it at no charge, but also reimburse the shipping charges. It would be good for you to get an honest opinion from another saddlemaker about exactly what the problem is. Another option would be for them to pay to have someone local to you fix. If they figure in shipping costs it might be less expensive for them that way. Stay open with them about what's going on and give them a chance to make things right if there indeed is something wrong with it. Most reputable makers want to stand behind their work. Chris

[Huntet02]

You probably don't need one more person saying the same thing, but I've got to agree it looks like you placed it too far forward. As far as the lump you are describing, if it is indeed a defect, frankly I think the maker should not only fix it at no charge, but also reimburse the shipping charges. It would be good for you to get an honest opinion from another saddlemaker about exactly what the problem is. Another option would be for them to pay to have someone local to you fix. If they figure in shipping costs it might be less expensive for them that way. Stay open with them about what's going on and give them a chance to make things right if there indeed is something wrong with it. Most reputable makers want to stand behind their work. Chris

When I take my saddle in or call them on phone first .....What do you call something like this?

[Huntet02]

You probably don't need one more person saying the same thing, but I've got to agree it looks like you placed it too far forward. Ok I've heard that everyone thinks its placed too far forward and I see agree it does at the start look to far on top of her points but this instructor I went to see placed it there where it started in the first few pics her along with 2 other men present one thinks he's a saddle maker LOL. "Me"- Hell I would more than likely place it foward to because gravity automatically pulls it back, I don't want to ride the results of it slipping to far backward. When we all rode this saddle placement which everyone thinks is way to far forward there was no bucking but I guess I didn't have steep hills eithers. No I don't want to start restricting her shoulder but on the other hand when the cinch was further backward under her belly that wasn't good either . None of the pictures are "me" placing the saddle but curious what does everyone think of the placement of the saddle in the pics where she's already sweated?

and her sweat marks? Do you think her sweat marks show it was ridden too far up on her withers? Last night with this placement she was really light on her feet her neck was freed up, no more tugging her head down. As far as the lump you are describing, if it is indeed a defect, frankly I think the maker should not only fix it at no charge, but also reimburse the shipping charges. It would be good for you to get an honest opinion from another saddlemaker about exactly what the problem is. Another option would be for them to pay to have someone local to you fix. If they figure in shipping costs it might be less expensive for them that way. Stay open with them about what's going on and give them a chance to make things right if there indeed is something wrong with it. Most reputable makers want to stand behind their work. Chris

Edited April 8, 2010 by Huntet02

[Huntet02]

It's hard to make judgements based on photos alone, but......your horse looks to have a good back shape, and keeping a saddle in place on her should be no problem, provided the saddle is a decent fit. I would agree with the others, also in saying that you are indeed trying to place the saddle too far forward. Again, hard to judge from just these photos, but your new saddle looks to have the rigging at about 3/4 position, while your previous saddle looks to be rigged slightly forward of what I would call the Full position. As for having a qualified saddle maker, such as the person you mentioned, look at it........good idea. As I previously said, I'd be happy to take a look at no charge, if you can come here. I will say that if there is an obvious defect in the saddle, such as the gullet liner or skirt plug improperly skived and fitted.............you should visit with the folks you bought it from. I would bet that they would want to make it right, and the shipping cost for you to ship it to Texas will be much cheaper than if you pay a qualified person to the repair. JW

WIsh it were all that easy to get the horse and saddle out to you but on the drive back from ML 2nd gear in our trainee started sticking we had to drive about 40 mile an hour the other night just to get her to this place on the west side of Wichita. Heading your way that far east is almost impossible so I'll keep dreaming I can get out there....about tired of trying

[Huntet02]

Huntet,

From your earlier reply, Nope wasn't me who said you had mule bars. I didn't see that reply. I think the fact that you can feel something on one side and not the other, you have a nice picture of a single dry spot corresponding to that area, and you have already shared it with 9000 people might sort of get their attention. I would think Teskeys would at least want to see it. I understand them not wanting to carte blanche give a full refund, but I'd think they might want to at least fix it if there is a problem.

Edit - Now that these pictures are up, I see some placement things I'd probably do differently too. I think that saddle appears to be sitting too far forward in some of the pictures. Where I expect the bar tips to be on that swell fork is a few inches behind where I expect they are with the Wade in some of those pictures. There is one picture (3rd one)that shows a sweat pattern where the saddle is sitting what appears to behind that about the width of the cinch. Ok I've read the above sentence over and over trying to understand....help? It looks like that is about where the saddle wants to settle, but again your hands are on it and we are looking at pictures. Sometimes the pictures when they are moving can make things look like they are sitting differently in different phases of a stride too. Again though, if one side of the saddle is different underneath than the other, that needs to be addressed.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Huntet02

[Huntet02]

The rough spot on the underside of this saddle that can be felt is pictured in pic ..Last 3 numbers 047....on the right side I think.

I just emailed the saddle manager at Teskeys and included a link to this forum...

Edited April 8, 2010 by Huntet02

[bruce johnson]

What I was trying to say in that post was there is a sweat pattern with the cinch sweat pattern laying directly behind the elbow. The saddle is sitting about maybe 4" behind where that sweat pattern is. Where the saddle is sitting now (uncinched) is where I would probably place it and pull it to start with.

JW pointed out what I thought I was seeing too. The swell fork rigging appears to be more forward of what I would call a full double. The swell fork saddle is cinched down in that same place right behind the elbow. Because the rigging on that one is more forward on the tree, the bar tips are back off the shoulders. If you place a 3/4 rigged saddle with the cinch in the same place as the full, there is going to be more bar in front of that, and that appears to be up over the shoulders or at least into them.

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Bruce and JW beat us to it. Where the saddle is placed on the sweated horse is pretty close to where we would expect it to want to sit. It could maybe be a little bit further ahead, but not much. The way we like to recommend saddling is to place the saddle a little ahead of where you expect it to end up, then jiggle it slightly side to side. It will settle where it fits best. If it fits well, it will be quite solid there. If it shakes all over the place, then it doesn't fit anywhere well. Maybe note next time you ride her, after letting the saddle go where it fits best, where the lip of the gullet is relative to the angle change from wither to neck. I bet you will find it pretty close to where it is in that picture.

I noticed you didn't have a back cinch in your early cell phone pictures of your old saddle. And the hobble strap between the front and back cinch on this one is pretty long - hanging down in some pictures. If your horse isn't used to being ridden in a back cinch and it gets back too far, you can get some bronc activity. I would suggest that you tighten up the hobble strap there too a bit to keep the back cinch from flanking her.

One "rule" that is common but false is that the cinch has to be vertical. So long as it is on the breast bone and not behind it, the cinch can be anywhere along that breast bone. Some horses have more rise under their belly toward the front legs than yours does and the cinch will end up there regardless of where it starts. The cinch can be sitting forward and the latigo slanted backwards towards the rigging and if the saddle fits, it will not pull it out of position. There is nothing wrong with a slanted latigo. When you look at some horses and how far back the shoulder blades sit, and how far forward that "girth groove" runs, there is no way a cinch can hang vertical. So the cinch can be forward, your saddle can sit where it is in the sweated up pictures (which is probably where it slips to), the latigo will be slanted back and that is just fine. What has happened over the years is people are used to seeing cinches in the full double position and now use the cinch position as a guide to set their saddle on the horse. This is totally backward.

We knew a saddle maker once who drove a long way to visit a customer who was complaining about the saddle he had made for him not fitting horses. When the saddle maker went there the saddle was perched on top the withers and held in place with a breast collar. He had to be a pretty diplomatic guy because when he left the customer apologized for having him drive all that way just to show him how to saddle his horses properly. And this guy was working out of his saddle. Length of time riding does not always equate to amount of knowledge...

[Huntet02]

Bruce and JW beat us to it. Where the saddle is placed on the sweated horse is pretty close to where we would expect it to want to sit. It could maybe be a little bit further ahead, but not much. The way we like to recommend saddling is to place the saddle a little ahead of where you expect it to end up, then jiggle it slightly side to side. It will settle where it fits best. If it fits well, it will be quite solid there. If it shakes all over the place, then it doesn't fit anywhere well. Maybe note next time you ride her, after letting the saddle go where it fits best, where the lip of the gullet is relative to the angle change from wither to neck. I bet you will find it pretty close to where it is in that picture.

I noticed you didn't have a back cinch in your early cell phone pictures of your old saddle. And the hobble strap between the front and back cinch on this one is pretty long - hanging down in some pictures. If your horse isn't used to being ridden in a back cinch and it gets back too far, you can get some bronc activity. I would suggest that you tighten up the hobble strap there too a bit to keep the back cinch from flanking her.

One "rule" that is common but false is that the cinch has to be vertical. So long as it is on the breast bone and not behind it, the cinch can be anywhere along that breast bone. Some horses have more rise under their belly toward the front legs than yours does and the cinch will end up there regardless of where it starts. The cinch can be sitting forward and the latigo slanted backwards towards the rigging and if the saddle fits, it will not pull it out of position. There is nothing wrong with a slanted latigo. When you look at some horses and how far back the shoulder blades sit, and how far forward that "girth groove" runs, there is no way a cinch can hang vertical. So the cinch can be forward, your saddle can sit where it is in the sweated up pictures (which is probably where it slips to), the latigo will be slanted back and that is just fine. What has happened over the years is people are used to seeing cinches in the full double position and now use the cinch position as a guide to set their saddle on the horse. This is totally backward.

We knew a saddle maker once who drove a long way to visit a customer who was complaining about the saddle he had made for him not fitting horses. When the saddle maker went there the saddle was perched on top the withers and held in place with a breast collar. He had to be a pretty diplomatic guy because when he left the customer apologized for having him drive all that way just to show him how to saddle his horses properly. And this guy was working out of his saddle. Length of time riding does not always equate to amount of knowledge...

Some very very good points....LOL

She is used to a back cinch; one picture is the day my husband rode her he said he couldn't find her back cinch so we left without it. Yes can't blame horse for broncy effect feel horrible that I did that to her she's such a good ole deserving girl. Has earned her feed and then some....

Attached some pics of another lady's saddle at the camp (day of my wrecks w/maroon pad underneath) Gal wanted me to try her saddle after bucking she said take some pictures so you can get one just like it so I humored her... thought they were decent comparison pics for you all to see although I should have backed up to show girthline placement

Edited April 8, 2010 by Huntet02