New Wade Saddle Got Me Bucked Off All Weekend

[kseidel]

Your horses' reactions sound somewhat as if she were being pinched in the wither area. Her reactions are violent enough that you should be able to re-create some of this response with your hands pinching her. Also as Denise has stated, the pressure needs to be towards the spine. Please try pinching her withers between your thumb and fingers. Direct your pressure down and in towards the spine, and pinch hard. Squeeze in this manner, moving over a fairly large area of the withers.... high, lower. forward, more back, around shoulder scapula, etc. There should be some noticeable reaction from the horse if this is where the pain is originating in the saddle. Pinching in some places in the wither area will almost always result in bucking to some degree. You can do some of this heavy pressure testing other places on the back, but they will not usually yield as dramatic results.

Another question... does the saddle have clearance in the gullet height when cinched in place? Is there still clearance with you sitting in the saddle? Check both front and back gullet (in front of the horn and behind the horn.) How about when moving? Many wade trees are made with lower clearances, and bumping on the top of the withers can sometime cause bucking.

Be patient with us, and I am sure we can pinpoint your problem.

Respectfully

Keith

[bruce johnson]

Under that area from your description, it might be the gullet liner wasn't skived very well on that side or a skirt plug isn't fit in there right. That can leave a ridge, and I've seen better than a $1395 Teskey that had one side skived and one not. If it is something you can feel on one side and not the other, that would be reason enough to send it back I'd think. If it is yours now, somebody will need to drop the skirts and see what is causing whatever you are feeling. As the wool packs, it will be a bigger problem.

[Huntet02]

Under that area from your description, it might be the gullet liner wasn't skived very well on that side or a skirt plug isn't fit in there right. That can leave a ridge, and I've seen better than a $1395 Teskey that had one side skived and one not. If it is something you can feel on one side and not the other, that would be reason enough to send it back I'd think. If it is yours now, somebody will need to drop the skirts and see what is causing whatever you are feeling. As the wool packs, it will be a bigger problem.

The guy at ___said I can send pictures but said I was not getting exaclty full price back for it although I never even asked...but he made the mistake of laughing when he said it.

Aren't you the one who earllier said I had "Mule Bars".......................

[Huntet02]

Under that area from your description, it might be the gullet liner wasn't skived very well on that side or a skirt plug isn't fit in there right. That can leave a ridge, and I've seen better than a $1395 Teskey that had one side skived and one not. If it is something you can feel on one side and not the other, that would be reason enough to send it back I'd think. If it is yours now, somebody will need to drop the skirts and see what is causing whatever you are feeling. As the wool packs, it will be a bigger problem.

checked it tonight you can definately feel something on the rifght side that wasn't finished right and guess were there the only dry spot on her back was tonight after her workout....same side. But I don't think Teskeys will still take it back because I still rode it the guy said if I rode it he couldn't pay me full price I paid. He said he would look at pictures of it and make me an offer I haven't sent him pictures but this thing not being right I feel should be fixed just wished I have noticed it before I rode it

[Huntet02]

Your horses' reactions sound somewhat as if she were being pinched in the wither area. Her reactions are violent enough that you should be able to re-create some of this response with your hands pinching her. Did all this pinching you wanted and pinched the withers hard no reaction that either of us noticed nothing....so don't think shes sore in withers. Also as Denise has stated, the pressure needs to be towards the spine. Please try pinching her withers between your thumb and fingers. Did this no reaction at all. Yes I did just as you said here..Direct your pressure down and in towards the spine, and pinch hard. Squeeze in this manner, moving over a fairly large area of the withers.... high, lower. forward, more back, around shoulder scapula, etc. There should be some noticeable reaction from the horse if this is where the pain is originating in the saddle. Pinching in some places in the wither area will almost always result in bucking to some degree. You can do some of this heavy pressure testing other places on the back, but they will not usually yield as dramatic results.

Another question... does the saddle have clearance in the gullet height when cinched in place? Is there still clearance with you sitting in the saddle?She has room said the trainer tonight... Check both front and back gullet (in front of the horn and behind the horn.) How about when moving? Many wade trees are made with lower clearances, and bumping on the top of the withers can sometime cause bucking. NOthing is bumping her withers it not made to low ...

Be patient with us, and I am sure we can pinpoint your problem.

Respectfully

Keith

[Huntet02]

Huntet,

You are feeling with your hand between the horse and saddle subjectively to see if the pressure on your hand from the saddle is the same all the way down the bar. There may be no contact at all in the center if you have a really badly bridging saddle. I believe there is contact in the center of the saddle it was all completely wet after I chased cows with her. Sorry I didnt check til afterward. Seems like the only place the bars aren't touching a whole bunch is right under the swell rise. Check with your hand under the front and back bar tips as well. Is there more pressure there? Then push down on the saddle while your fingers are under the bar tips. If you are feeling a lot of pressure there, so is she. ot have a sharp edge that digs in. The pressure should ease off gradually from under the saddle, nIf you still have questions, then have someone walk the horse as you have your hand in the area you wonder about. The tree will have more and less pressure under different parts as they walk. The question is does it have too much at any point. I don't think so Remember that what you are feeling is just the weight of the saddle. The pressure increases a lot with the rider.

Once you know where the bar edges and tips were resting on her during your ride, check for soreness in those areas specifically. No soreness. Don't just push down on the muscles. That is only part of what may show you pain. Push sideways towards the spine and watch for her reactions. Did this both myself and trainer and no reactions did this all the way down starting at her withers. Normal muscle doesn't hurt even with a fair amount of pressure. She may wonder what you are doing but that reaction is different than "ouch!". You'll be able to tell.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Huntet02

[Huntet02]

Got it , I understand completely what to feel for. "Off topic" but we did find a pretty hardened corner where obviously something has been inserted on other side of saddle when made. Its underneath where wool is thinning possibly where left front concho/leather hardware would have been inserted. Feels like a rough edged thickness but could hurt if had thin pad on. We dont' think the mare felt this ever through the pad Ihad on her but what do I do about this esp. if I do have to go to a much thinner pad?

Edited April 7, 2010 by Huntet02

[bruce johnson]

checked it tonight you can definately feel something on the rifght side that wasn't finished right and guess were there the only dry spot on her back was tonight after her workout....same side. But I don't think Teskeys will still take it back because I still rode it the guy said if I rode it he couldn't pay me full price I paid. He said he would look at pictures of it and make me an offer I haven't sent him pictures but this thing not being right I feel should be fixed just wished I have noticed it before I rode it

Huntet,

From your earlier reply, Nope wasn't me who said you had mule bars. I didn't see that reply. I think the fact that you can feel something on one side and not the other, you have a nice picture of a single dry spot corresponding to that area, and you have already shared it with 9000 people might sort of get their attention. I would think Teskeys would at least want to see it. I understand them not wanting to carte blanche give a full refund, but I'd think they might want to at least fix it if there is a problem.

Edit - Now that these pictures are up, I see some placement things I'd probably do differently too. I think that saddle appears to be sitting too far forward in some of the pictures. Where I expect the bar tips to be on that swell fork is a few inches behind where I expect they are with the Wade in some of those pictures. There is one picture (3rd one)that shows a sweat pattern where the saddle is sitting what appears to behind that about the width of the cinch. It looks like that is about where the saddle wants to settle, but again your hands are on it and we are looking at pictures. Sometimes the pictures when they are moving can make things look like they are sitting differently in different phases of a stride too. Again though, if one side of the saddle is different underneath than the other, that needs to be addressed.

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Huntet,

Interesting shape to that dry spot. In post #29 it looks to have a pretty straight line on the top of it. Most dry spots fade out more gradually. In trying to interpret what you've written, it sounds like the different piece makes a ridge too. Anytime there is assymmetry like that it can affect all sorts of things - pulling the saddle crooked on the horse etc. Who knows what they are feeling under there if it is twisted a bit? So whatever is different needs to be fixed for sure. That is a defect in the saddle.

We agree with Bruce that the saddle appears to be too far forward in a bunch of those pictures. Are any of the pictures with the saddle taken after your ride before you moved the saddle? Which ones?

Most bars are made so they fit right at the back edge of the shoulder blade, but in trying to see though the saddle to the horse it looks like the saddle is set up on top the shoulder blades in most of the photos. You say the bars aren't touching under the "swell rise". I am not sure what you are meaning there. Could you explain better?

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Huntet, I see the same things that Bruce and Denise see. To me the saddle is sitting too far forward in most of the pics. It give the appearence that it is going uphill when it should be more level. The fact that it looks uphill indicates that it is sitting up on top of the withers and not "just behind". I too would also be interested in what that lump is and what is wrong there. Can you turn the saddle over and point with your finger where the lump is in a picture. I had that "horse uncomfortable " feeling on a horse that is built similar to yours. Pictured is a saddle that I made for him, note that this is a cutting saddle, and it is a close contact wide open seat on a Buster Welch tree, and sits down on the horse and gives the appearence of going downhill because of a really flat wide open ground seat, what I am pointing out to you is more where the saddle is actually sitting on his back. If I were there, I would probably first look into that lump and get it corrected, and second, if all else looks correct, sit the saddle rearward like Bruce and Denise have also indicated.

Bondo Bob

[Huntet02]

Huntet,

From your earlier reply, Nope wasn't me who said you had mule bars. I didn't see that reply. I think the fact that you can feel something on one side and not the other, you have a nice picture of a single dry spot corresponding to that area, and you have already shared it with 9000 people might sort of get their attention. I would think Teskeys would at least want to see it. I understand them not wanting to carte blanche give a full refund, but I'd think they might want to at least fix it if there is a problem.

Edit - Now that these pictures are up, I see some placement things I'd probably do differently too. I think that saddle appears to be sitting too far forward in some of the pictures. I know it looks to far forward but I put the saddle where this trainer thouhgt it should go pic # (not that its correct) she said that my mare just had withers that would always have trouble sliding saddles/pads back of any kind. We then lunged her this different pad cinched up and rode her and the pad did offer the saddle a more "stay" affect and she never offered to buck but that doesn't mean things are OK. I know I didn't do everything right last night but had to be appreciative of the lady that gracisouly offered her help ....so Where I expect the bar tips to be on that swell fork is a few inches behind where I expect they are with the Wade in some of those pictures. There is one picture (3rd one)that shows a sweat pattern where the saddle is sitting what appears to behind that about the width of the cinch. It looks like that is about where the saddle wants to settle, yes I gave you this "after ride"sweat picture as I thought to this would be what you wanted to see as far as where the saddle wanted to settle. but again your hands are on it and we are looking at pictures. Sometimes the pictures when they are moving can make things look like they are sitting differently in different phases of a stride too. Again though, if one side of the saddle is different underneath than the other, that needs to be addressed.

I got home way late and had mucho problems getting Kodak or Photbucket to load my pictures all at onece couldn't belive I had to laod them one at a time.....was exhausting so I know I'm not painting you all a very easy picture.

[Huntet02]

Huntet,

Interesting shape to that dry spot. In post #29 it looks to have a pretty straight line on the top of it. Most dry spots fade out more gradually. In trying to interpret what you've written, it sounds like the different piece makes a ridge too. Anytime there is assymmetry like that it can affect all sorts of things - pulling the saddle crooked on the horse etc. Who knows what they are feeling under there if it is twisted a bit? So whatever is different needs to be fixed for sure. That is a defect in the saddle.

We agree with Bruce that the saddle appears to be too far forward in a bunch of those pictures. Are any of the pictures with the saddle taken after your ride before you moved the saddle? Thanks for being patient with me...Yes 1stpic below is taken after our ride. But if I were to cinch up look were the cinch would be....the other riders said that when she started bucking the cinch looked to be in the middle of her belly....course they all think middle of belly is the wrost thing in the world. I'm so tired not sure what to think today. Here' some more pictures of her build. these pics were taken when she got real poor with her EPSM disorder her topline always suffers...but thought they would help you see her build better..

The instrutor you see in the pics said she was just one of those horses who had withers that were hard to fit. I never thought so but I look at old pictures and her pads do tend to slide back. Her answer was using this other pad and get a pulling collar she also said Teskeys' better make this right side lump right they should take it back and repair. But heck if I ship back it will cost a fortune....I will see if matt Hunn down here can help but he's pretty far away.

Which ones?

Most bars are made so they fit right at the back edge of the shoulder blade, but in trying to see though the saddle to the horse it looks like the saddle is set up on top the shoulder blades in most of the photos. You say the bars aren't touching under the "swell rise". I am not sure what you are meaning there. Could you explain better?

Edited April 7, 2010 by Huntet02

[Huntet02]

Huntet, I see the same things that Bruce and Denise see. To me the saddle is sitting too far forward in most of the pics. It give the appearence that it is going uphill when it should be more level. The fact that it looks uphill indicates that it is sitting up on top of the withers and not "just behind". I too would also be interested in what that lump is and what is wrong there. Can you turn the saddle over and point with your finger where the lump is in a picture. The lump is where the concho/latigo straps are inserted Im sure of it. Dawg gone it I was sure I attached the pictures of wool inside saddle but it took me 2 hrs to attached very few pics computer at home needs burned down.LOL

Well Ok here is the Teskeys stock picture, see the very front conchos right behind it is the lump not underneath we already figured that one out at camp. The lump feels like a really dull bolt is in there and not covered well by wool its pretty obvious

I had that "horse uncomfortable " feeling on a horse that is built similar to yours. Pictured is a saddle that I made for him, note that this is a cutting saddle, and it is a close contact wide open seat on a Buster Welch tree, and sits down on the horse and gives the appearence of going downhill because of a really flat wide open ground seat, what I am pointing out to you is more where the saddle is actually sitting on his back. Bob when you mentioned the pic looked like the saddle was downhill thats exaclty the first thing I thought. Looks like the back is lifted up to high makes the horse appear downhill yet the legs dont' appear that way

If I were there, I would probably first look into that lump and get it corrected EXACLTY my first plan I think right now I'm not going to speed around worrying about the saddle not fitting and trying to return it. Gonna slow down and get at least the lump looke at my Matt Hunn down here at Hunn leather in August Ks first and foremost. Then If i can trailer my horse over to him then I will but he's pretty far. and second, if all else looks correct, sit the saddle rearward like Bruce and Denise have also indicated.

Bondo Bob

Edited April 7, 2010 by Huntet02

[Huntet02]

Found another way to get you all pics of the wool....here you go. then the pic of her after our ride with just the saddle......

Edited April 7, 2010 by Huntet02

[Huntet02]

Huntet,

Interesting shape to that dry spot. In post #29 it looks to have a pretty straight line on the top of it. Most dry spots fade out more gradually. In trying to interpret what you've written, it sounds like the different piece makes a ridge too. Anytime there is assymmetry like that it can affect all sorts of things - pulling the saddle crooked on the horse etc. Who knows what they are feeling under there if it is twisted a bit? So whatever is different needs to be fixed for sure. That is a defect in the saddle.

We agree with Bruce that the saddle appears to be too far forward in a bunch of those pictures. Are any of the pictures with the saddle taken after your ride before you moved the saddle? Which ones?

Most bars are made so they fit right at the back edge of the shoulder blade, but in trying to see though the saddle to the horse it looks like the saddle is set up on top the shoulder blades in most of the photos. You say the bars aren't touching under the "swell rise" SOrry I should have said that I felt like the bars WERE all touching to my horse' back. This being in reference to you all making sure I felt to see if the saddle was 'bridging' which I understood to mean touching in back and front of bars but maybe not in midel or otherwise. Here's what I found-

with the saddle on her "bare" back after her workout it seems to be touching all over her back when I put my hand underneath and then pressing downa little I thought I felt the saddle bars everywhere they should be. It did seem a little tight one time on her left side on top of bars near the "tiestrap holder" but then I felt it again and it wasn't too tight and then I started doubting what I felt but horse did twist around to say hi to a neighbor so that may have been what I misread as tight or not.

I am not sure what you are meaning there. Could you explain better? I meant there was less saddle touching her back "in front of the Pommel to the seat rise" which rises up in this saddle anyway so I dont' think that is abnormal. It couldn't touch her back there...

Edited April 7, 2010 by Huntet02

[jwwright]

It's hard to make judgements based on photos alone, but......your horse looks to have a good back shape, and keeping a saddle in place on her should be no problem, provided the saddle is a decent fit. I would agree with the others, also in saying that you are indeed trying to place the saddle too far forward. Again, hard to judge from just these photos, but your new saddle looks to have the rigging at about 3/4 position, while your previous saddle looks to be rigged slightly forward of what I would call the Full position. As for having a qualified saddle maker, such as the person you mentioned, look at it........good idea. As I previously said, I'd be happy to take a look at no charge, if you can come here. I will say that if there is an obvious defect in the saddle, such as the gullet liner or skirt plug improperly skived and fitted.............you should visit with the folks you bought it from. I would bet that they would want to make it right, and the shipping cost for you to ship it to Texas will be much cheaper than if you pay a qualified person to the repair. JW

Edited April 7, 2010 by jwwright

[mulefool]

You probably don't need one more person saying the same thing, but I've got to agree it looks like you placed it too far forward. As far as the lump you are describing, if it is indeed a defect, frankly I think the maker should not only fix it at no charge, but also reimburse the shipping charges. It would be good for you to get an honest opinion from another saddlemaker about exactly what the problem is. Another option would be for them to pay to have someone local to you fix. If they figure in shipping costs it might be less expensive for them that way. Stay open with them about what's going on and give them a chance to make things right if there indeed is something wrong with it. Most reputable makers want to stand behind their work. Chris

[Huntet02]

You probably don't need one more person saying the same thing, but I've got to agree it looks like you placed it too far forward. As far as the lump you are describing, if it is indeed a defect, frankly I think the maker should not only fix it at no charge, but also reimburse the shipping charges. It would be good for you to get an honest opinion from another saddlemaker about exactly what the problem is. Another option would be for them to pay to have someone local to you fix. If they figure in shipping costs it might be less expensive for them that way. Stay open with them about what's going on and give them a chance to make things right if there indeed is something wrong with it. Most reputable makers want to stand behind their work. Chris

When I take my saddle in or call them on phone first .....What do you call something like this?

[Huntet02]

You probably don't need one more person saying the same thing, but I've got to agree it looks like you placed it too far forward. Ok I've heard that everyone thinks its placed too far forward and I see agree it does at the start look to far on top of her points but this instructor I went to see placed it there where it started in the first few pics her along with 2 other men present one thinks he's a saddle maker LOL. "Me"- Hell I would more than likely place it foward to because gravity automatically pulls it back, I don't want to ride the results of it slipping to far backward. When we all rode this saddle placement which everyone thinks is way to far forward there was no bucking but I guess I didn't have steep hills eithers. No I don't want to start restricting her shoulder but on the other hand when the cinch was further backward under her belly that wasn't good either . None of the pictures are "me" placing the saddle but curious what does everyone think of the placement of the saddle in the pics where she's already sweated?

and her sweat marks? Do you think her sweat marks show it was ridden too far up on her withers? Last night with this placement she was really light on her feet her neck was freed up, no more tugging her head down. As far as the lump you are describing, if it is indeed a defect, frankly I think the maker should not only fix it at no charge, but also reimburse the shipping charges. It would be good for you to get an honest opinion from another saddlemaker about exactly what the problem is. Another option would be for them to pay to have someone local to you fix. If they figure in shipping costs it might be less expensive for them that way. Stay open with them about what's going on and give them a chance to make things right if there indeed is something wrong with it. Most reputable makers want to stand behind their work. Chris

Edited April 8, 2010 by Huntet02

[Huntet02]

It's hard to make judgements based on photos alone, but......your horse looks to have a good back shape, and keeping a saddle in place on her should be no problem, provided the saddle is a decent fit. I would agree with the others, also in saying that you are indeed trying to place the saddle too far forward. Again, hard to judge from just these photos, but your new saddle looks to have the rigging at about 3/4 position, while your previous saddle looks to be rigged slightly forward of what I would call the Full position. As for having a qualified saddle maker, such as the person you mentioned, look at it........good idea. As I previously said, I'd be happy to take a look at no charge, if you can come here. I will say that if there is an obvious defect in the saddle, such as the gullet liner or skirt plug improperly skived and fitted.............you should visit with the folks you bought it from. I would bet that they would want to make it right, and the shipping cost for you to ship it to Texas will be much cheaper than if you pay a qualified person to the repair. JW

WIsh it were all that easy to get the horse and saddle out to you but on the drive back from ML 2nd gear in our trainee started sticking we had to drive about 40 mile an hour the other night just to get her to this place on the west side of Wichita. Heading your way that far east is almost impossible so I'll keep dreaming I can get out there....about tired of trying

[Huntet02]

Huntet,

From your earlier reply, Nope wasn't me who said you had mule bars. I didn't see that reply. I think the fact that you can feel something on one side and not the other, you have a nice picture of a single dry spot corresponding to that area, and you have already shared it with 9000 people might sort of get their attention. I would think Teskeys would at least want to see it. I understand them not wanting to carte blanche give a full refund, but I'd think they might want to at least fix it if there is a problem.

Edit - Now that these pictures are up, I see some placement things I'd probably do differently too. I think that saddle appears to be sitting too far forward in some of the pictures. Where I expect the bar tips to be on that swell fork is a few inches behind where I expect they are with the Wade in some of those pictures. There is one picture (3rd one)that shows a sweat pattern where the saddle is sitting what appears to behind that about the width of the cinch. Ok I've read the above sentence over and over trying to understand....help? It looks like that is about where the saddle wants to settle, but again your hands are on it and we are looking at pictures. Sometimes the pictures when they are moving can make things look like they are sitting differently in different phases of a stride too. Again though, if one side of the saddle is different underneath than the other, that needs to be addressed.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Huntet02

[Huntet02]

The rough spot on the underside of this saddle that can be felt is pictured in pic ..Last 3 numbers 047....on the right side I think.

I just emailed the saddle manager at Teskeys and included a link to this forum...

Edited April 8, 2010 by Huntet02

[bruce johnson]

What I was trying to say in that post was there is a sweat pattern with the cinch sweat pattern laying directly behind the elbow. The saddle is sitting about maybe 4" behind where that sweat pattern is. Where the saddle is sitting now (uncinched) is where I would probably place it and pull it to start with.

JW pointed out what I thought I was seeing too. The swell fork rigging appears to be more forward of what I would call a full double. The swell fork saddle is cinched down in that same place right behind the elbow. Because the rigging on that one is more forward on the tree, the bar tips are back off the shoulders. If you place a 3/4 rigged saddle with the cinch in the same place as the full, there is going to be more bar in front of that, and that appears to be up over the shoulders or at least into them.

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Bruce and JW beat us to it. Where the saddle is placed on the sweated horse is pretty close to where we would expect it to want to sit. It could maybe be a little bit further ahead, but not much. The way we like to recommend saddling is to place the saddle a little ahead of where you expect it to end up, then jiggle it slightly side to side. It will settle where it fits best. If it fits well, it will be quite solid there. If it shakes all over the place, then it doesn't fit anywhere well. Maybe note next time you ride her, after letting the saddle go where it fits best, where the lip of the gullet is relative to the angle change from wither to neck. I bet you will find it pretty close to where it is in that picture.

I noticed you didn't have a back cinch in your early cell phone pictures of your old saddle. And the hobble strap between the front and back cinch on this one is pretty long - hanging down in some pictures. If your horse isn't used to being ridden in a back cinch and it gets back too far, you can get some bronc activity. I would suggest that you tighten up the hobble strap there too a bit to keep the back cinch from flanking her.

One "rule" that is common but false is that the cinch has to be vertical. So long as it is on the breast bone and not behind it, the cinch can be anywhere along that breast bone. Some horses have more rise under their belly toward the front legs than yours does and the cinch will end up there regardless of where it starts. The cinch can be sitting forward and the latigo slanted backwards towards the rigging and if the saddle fits, it will not pull it out of position. There is nothing wrong with a slanted latigo. When you look at some horses and how far back the shoulder blades sit, and how far forward that "girth groove" runs, there is no way a cinch can hang vertical. So the cinch can be forward, your saddle can sit where it is in the sweated up pictures (which is probably where it slips to), the latigo will be slanted back and that is just fine. What has happened over the years is people are used to seeing cinches in the full double position and now use the cinch position as a guide to set their saddle on the horse. This is totally backward.

We knew a saddle maker once who drove a long way to visit a customer who was complaining about the saddle he had made for him not fitting horses. When the saddle maker went there the saddle was perched on top the withers and held in place with a breast collar. He had to be a pretty diplomatic guy because when he left the customer apologized for having him drive all that way just to show him how to saddle his horses properly. And this guy was working out of his saddle. Length of time riding does not always equate to amount of knowledge...

[Huntet02]

Bruce and JW beat us to it. Where the saddle is placed on the sweated horse is pretty close to where we would expect it to want to sit. It could maybe be a little bit further ahead, but not much. The way we like to recommend saddling is to place the saddle a little ahead of where you expect it to end up, then jiggle it slightly side to side. It will settle where it fits best. If it fits well, it will be quite solid there. If it shakes all over the place, then it doesn't fit anywhere well. Maybe note next time you ride her, after letting the saddle go where it fits best, where the lip of the gullet is relative to the angle change from wither to neck. I bet you will find it pretty close to where it is in that picture.

I noticed you didn't have a back cinch in your early cell phone pictures of your old saddle. And the hobble strap between the front and back cinch on this one is pretty long - hanging down in some pictures. If your horse isn't used to being ridden in a back cinch and it gets back too far, you can get some bronc activity. I would suggest that you tighten up the hobble strap there too a bit to keep the back cinch from flanking her.

One "rule" that is common but false is that the cinch has to be vertical. So long as it is on the breast bone and not behind it, the cinch can be anywhere along that breast bone. Some horses have more rise under their belly toward the front legs than yours does and the cinch will end up there regardless of where it starts. The cinch can be sitting forward and the latigo slanted backwards towards the rigging and if the saddle fits, it will not pull it out of position. There is nothing wrong with a slanted latigo. When you look at some horses and how far back the shoulder blades sit, and how far forward that "girth groove" runs, there is no way a cinch can hang vertical. So the cinch can be forward, your saddle can sit where it is in the sweated up pictures (which is probably where it slips to), the latigo will be slanted back and that is just fine. What has happened over the years is people are used to seeing cinches in the full double position and now use the cinch position as a guide to set their saddle on the horse. This is totally backward.

We knew a saddle maker once who drove a long way to visit a customer who was complaining about the saddle he had made for him not fitting horses. When the saddle maker went there the saddle was perched on top the withers and held in place with a breast collar. He had to be a pretty diplomatic guy because when he left the customer apologized for having him drive all that way just to show him how to saddle his horses properly. And this guy was working out of his saddle. Length of time riding does not always equate to amount of knowledge...

Some very very good points....LOL

She is used to a back cinch; one picture is the day my husband rode her he said he couldn't find her back cinch so we left without it. Yes can't blame horse for broncy effect feel horrible that I did that to her she's such a good ole deserving girl. Has earned her feed and then some....

Attached some pics of another lady's saddle at the camp (day of my wrecks w/maroon pad underneath) Gal wanted me to try her saddle after bucking she said take some pictures so you can get one just like it so I humored her... thought they were decent comparison pics for you all to see although I should have backed up to show girthline placement

Edited April 8, 2010 by Huntet02