Neatsfoot & Beeswax

[Dwight]

OK, . . . I give up, . . . need some help. I did the "search" thing for the past hour or so, . . . could not find the post I was looking for.

Some time in the last 8 months or so, someone posted about using (if I remember correctly) a mixture that is neatsfoot oil and beeswax, . . . kept it in something like a crock pot, . . . used it I thought for special deal old west looking holsters.

Anyway, . . . I've got a bunch of beeswax, . . . an old crock pot, . . . some neatsfoot oil, . . . but I wanted to re-read the post or at least get a better handle on how they used it.

Just got the itch to "experiment" but wanted to get boosted off in the right direction.

Anybody got a handle on this? Thanks!

May God bless,

Dwight

[ps0303]

Dwight,

Is this what you are talking about? Post #14.

http://leatherworker...=1entry141898

Post #15 on this one.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=16172&st=0&p=103086&hl=beeswax&fromsearch=1entry103086

Edited April 5, 2010 by ps0303

[Dwight]

Dwight,

Is this what you are talking about? Post #14.

http://leatherworker...=1entry141898

Post #15 on this one.

http://leatherworker...=1entry103086

ps0303, . . . you DID IT !!!!! I had found Lobo's post, . . . but the other one I couldn't get to come up for some reason. As soon as I saw her holster thumbnail, . . . I knew that was it.

Time to get the old crock pot fired up, . . . I thought it was 50/50, . . . but wasn't sure enough to commit the resources until I saw it in print.

Shoot me a PM with an address, . . . once I get it all made up (and I know it works like I want it to), . . . I'll send you a sample, . . . you can "smearymint" too.

Thanks for the help.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited April 5, 2010 by Dwight

[MADMAX22]

I think Im a big fan of this stuff now.

I have allways loved sno-seal. Nice mellow finish, actually works pretty darn good and you can reapply every season for a fresh coat.

Thanks to you guys for the info on this and since I was curious I went ahead and tried a mix of about 50/50 roughly of neats foot and bees wax. Melted it all together in a small canning jar. Oh and I also thru in about a 3/4" cube of clear glycerine soap. Oh and also had a small cube of perafin wax laying around so wanted to get rid of that as well.

Anyways now I have a nice waxy paste that to be very honest is very similer to sno-seal in appearance and feel. Not exactly the same but very similar. Gonna try it out on a new project and see how it does.

[olliesrevenge]

I have allways loved sno-seal. Nice mellow finish...

Max,

I read your previous post about Sno Seal, but this time I checked it out. Now I have one more thing to experiment with, thanks. I read the following info from the Atsko website...

Sno-Seal Original Beeswax Waterproofing protects leather from rain, sun, snow, and salt. The beeswax formula dries to a solid wax that "stays put" in the surface of the leather so it lasts longer.

Our competitors' greases, oil, and animal products are able to migrate through the leather till they clog all the pores. These waterproofing products fill the natural spaces that are supposed to absorb perspiration and insulate.

In addition, animal fats weaken and rot leather. The tannery worked hard to remove the fats and preserve the leather, so it's hard to imagine why you'd put it back on.

Is it true that when I apply Neatsfoot oil to one of my holsters I am actually adding an animal fat that "The tannery worked hard to remove (from)...the leather", and that it will weaken and rot the leather? Or does Neatsfoot oil not count as a "animal fat"?

[Dwight]

Is it true that when I apply Neatsfoot oil to one of my holsters I am actually adding an animal fat that "The tannery worked hard to remove (from)...the leather", and that it will weaken and rot the leather? Or does Neatsfoot oil not count as a "animal fat"?

Yes, . . . but the two things that should be stressed about neatsfoot oil: it is a natural bovine product, being an oil extracted from the legs and feet of cattle, . . . and secondly, . . . it does not congeal at room temperature.

It seems the Good Lord intended for it to be a part of His cattle He created, . . . so maybe we should just add some of it back when we get done altering the cattle, . . . and their hides.

Anyway, . . . that's what I found out on Google.

May God bless,

Dwight

[ChuckBurrows]

In addition, animal fats weaken and rot leather. The tannery worked hard to remove the fats and preserve the leather, so it's hard to imagine why you'd put it back on.

1) Animal fats DO NOT weaken nor rot leather - this has been proven in the lab as well as in the field

2) As to the tannery removing them - yes they are and must be removed from the rawhide before they do the actual tanning, but oils/fats are then returned to the tanned but as yet unsoftened hide during the currying process. This comment by them always makes me cringe since it shows an appalling and false understanding of the entire tanning process. Adding fats back to the tanned hide is known as fat liquoring and/or stuffing - the matter is a bit more complicated but that's the basics and all leather needs a certain amount of fats/oils or they will stiffen and crack, etc. Sno-seal is a decent product especially in conjunction with a good conditioner, but beeswax can have it's own problems as well...

BTW - the oil-wax mix is also known as dubbin - an age old blend of usually tallow (usually sheep or beef) or lard (pig tallow), oils of various types (animal and vegetable have been used), beeswax, and st times other additives such as pine pitch - i.e. Montana Pitchblend uses the latter and is one commercial version of dubbin.

Edited April 7, 2010 by ChuckBurrows

[MADMAX22]

Chuck if you dont mind me asking but what do you like to use on your stuff? I think you have probably mentioned it before but not sure where to start looking short of going thru all your threads lol.

I have used sno-seal for a while and liked it but am always looking for something better atleast once I am done with my current jar of the stuff which will take a while. Well plus gotta see how the stuff I made works but I doubt very seriously I can make something better then what a company has spent plenty of time researching and field testing over the years.

That montana pitch blend seems like really good stuff, ofcourse so does bees natural and picards.

[Lobo]

Dwight: When I experimented with this process (many years ago) I put about a cup of neatsfoot oil into a saucepan and heated it gently until a lump of beeswax would melt into it. Then I applied the mixture while still warm and fluid using a cloth to rub it into the leather. Finally, I buffed the surface with a soft cloth. The result was a soft velvety finish with a waxy feel. My impression was that the neatsfoot oil penetrated the fibers while the beeswax filled the pores and remained on the exterior.

My understanding of this is that the process was used by saddlemakers years ago, prior to the availability of more modern applications that require less time and effort to achieve equal or better results.

This method of finishing might have an appeal for certain uses, such as reproductions of vintage items, but I think that the products now available are superior in performance and easier to use.

[Dwight]

Dwight: When I experimented with this process (many years ago) I put about a cup of neatsfoot oil into a saucepan and heated it gently until a lump of beeswax would melt into it. Then I applied the mixture while still warm and fluid using a cloth to rub it into the leather. Finally, I buffed the surface with a soft cloth. The result was a soft velvety finish with a waxy feel. My impression was that the neatsfoot oil penetrated the fibers while the beeswax filled the pores and remained on the exterior.

My understanding of this is that the process was used by saddlemakers years ago, prior to the availability of more modern applications that require less time and effort to achieve equal or better results.

This method of finishing might have an appeal for certain uses, such as reproductions of vintage items, but I think that the products now available are superior in performance and easier to use.

Hey, Lobo, I was hoping you would chime in, . . . and I had surmised pretty much the history you spoke of above.

I did a western rig for a friend of mine last year, . . . and while it was a good job, . . . he was simply thrilled, . . . it was a personal thing with me, I just wanted to do it a bit better.

I want to tone down on the "plastic" feel on the western stuff and re-enactment gear, . . . and my thought pattern was that if I could find a process that used "natural" products like this one, . . . it may be the answer.

How's the new shop, . . . got it all broke in yet? I'm maybe a year from doing the same or similar, . . . wife is about to have a fire sale on my leather working in the living room.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Lobo]

Hey, Lobo, I was hoping you would chime in, . . . and I had surmised pretty much the history you spoke of above.

I did a western rig for a friend of mine last year, . . . and while it was a good job, . . . he was simply thrilled, . . . it was a personal thing with me, I just wanted to do it a bit better.

I want to tone down on the "plastic" feel on the western stuff and re-enactment gear, . . . and my thought pattern was that if I could find a process that used "natural" products like this one, . . . it may be the answer.

How's the new shop, . . . got it all broke in yet? I'm maybe a year from doing the same or similar, . . . wife is about to have a fire sale on my leather working in the living room.

May God bless,

Dwight

Dwight: The new shop is working out well, thanks. The additional space is great to have. I still have a little work to do as time permits, I'll be adding another work station for air-brush dying, more shelves, and a drying cabinet. These will permit me to change my production procedure a bit for faster turnaround time.

New apprentice started part-time on Monday. She has been doing some cutting and assembly work so far and really seems to enjoy it, so I will probably have her doing more as time goes by.

Best regards.