Wickett&craig Leather Grades.

[billymac814]

What is the difference between the number one and the number 3 or special grade? The last side I got was number one and it was nice but it was expensive. I seen on their site they have the special grade for 90 a side which is half of what I paid. Is it the same tanning process and just flawed or is it tanned differently. I'm thinking if it just has range marks I can work around that enough to make it worth it if it's that much cheaper. But if there's something other than that I'll just stay with the number 1.

[Frank]

Their number 3 and their special is about the same grade. I order their specials all of the time, usually 6-7 sides. I ask Glenn (ext.222) to pick out some of their best special sides for me personally and so far I have had only one complaint on my end, which is pretty good. They do have some marks and blemishes that can usually be covered up once you add a finish coat to whatever you are using it for, the only exception being the russet carving sides. Those blemishes are nearly impossible to cover. I can get about 10-12 holsters from a side without any blemishes on them, which is still a pretty good profit margin. The scraps I can make coasters, etc. from. I hope that helps out a little bit.

Frank

[horsewreck]

Billymac, Frank has it about right, I would only add that the tannage is the same on all their skirting and tooling leathers. I have used quite a bit of the sp grade leather and on balance I have been happy with it. Wickett uses steer hides from canada and their sides are always unbranded and tend to run large. Imperfections in leather can be range marks, but they sometimes are damage done to the hide during tanning either way you can work around these flaws. Hope this is of some value to you.

[billymac814]

Yes it does help. Thanks guys. I'll try it. It seems worthwile at least while it's onsale. I can work around some marks typically. I just wanted to make sure everything else was the same.

[Frank]

What they don't tell you on their website is that the sale happens every month for the entire month. They just might not have same same weights in the same colors every month or they might add something different. Don't worry about not meeting the sale deadline is my point as it is an ongoing thing.

Frank

[billymac814]

Ok thank you. That's a really good price then for a side. Will they still split it for me? I think the only thing listed on the overstocked is the 8-10oz.

[Frank]

They might be down to the 8-10 oz now but by June they'll have 8-10, 10-12, 12-14 listed again for the #3 grade. They will split them for you for an extra fee since they are the cheaper sides. I bought 7 sides the last time and I had 3 of the sides split and they didn't charge for it. Talk to Glenn at W/C, he is pretty good to deal with and usually goes out of his way to make you happy. Like I said, I have only had to send 1 of the #3 grades sent back because it was actually something that wasn't usable at all, so pretty good service that way.

[LeatherCaptain]

Hi, thought I'd add a comment since I order from W&C. All of the sales people are great to work with so you can't go wrong with any of them. I've ordered sides/backs in all of their grades and I honestly think there's more to grading the leather than just range marks. Overall, the higher grade appears to have a tighter grain than the lower grade, as well as fewer range marks or blemishes. I've also noticed less prominent stretch marks/fat lines in the higher grade category. Also, the flesh side of the higher grade is much more usable. I guess it all depends on what you're using it for. Utility type pieces would be served just fine by the sides sold in their monthly specials but, for overall better feel and appearance and higher utilization, your better off with the top grade. You just have to charge a couple bucks more for your stuff to make up for it.

I've always listened to the advice that your product is only as good as the materials you put in.

[Art]

I think there is quite a difference between a #1 and a #3, however, for smaller items, you may be able to negotiate your way around #3 problems. The #1 hides seem to have an evenness throughout, the grain is tight throughout. If you are making premium strap goods or harness goods, the harness or bridle backs are the best value, but they would be wasted on a holster maker.

W&C have one of the best finishing departments in the US, second maybe to Horween. They can do just about anything you are going to need. You need to call Matt, Glenn, or Linda and see how they can put the talent of the finishing dept. to work for you.

About price. The following equation applies to some extent.

Value = (Quality / Price) X Service

Plugging numbers in here really doesn't mean much without comparative or historical context, but the relationship of those levels does. Basically higher quality, higher price, given the same service level. As I've said previously, don't chase price, chase quality and service, and if you think the price is too high, ask the vendor for an adjustment.

For some stuff we use W&C, for others we use HO, not for difference in quality, but the tanning is different. For Boy Scouts, we use anything we can get(that can take tooling).

The best way to figure this out is to try a #3 side and see how it works for you. Everyone's mileage will vary.

Art

What is the difference between the number one and the number 3 or special grade? The last side I got was number one and it was nice but it was expensive. I seen on their site they have the special grade for 90 a side which is half of what I paid. Is it the same tanning process and just flawed or is it tanned differently. I'm thinking if it just has range marks I can work around that enough to make it worth it if it's that much cheaper. But if there's something other than that I'll just stay with the number 1.

[LeatherCaptain]

I think there is quite a difference between a #1 and a #3, however, for smaller items, you may be able to negotiate your way around #3 problems. The #1 hides seem to have an evenness throughout, the grain is tight throughout. If you are making premium strap goods or harness goods, the harness or bridle backs are the best value, but they would be wasted on a holster maker.

I disagree with the comment that quality leather is wasted on a holster maker. There's novices on the concealed carry forums who notice the difference in the quality of leather used in a holster. I think the project and the purpose should determine the grade of leather.

[billymac814]

Thanks everyone. I'm not really price chasing at all. If the difference between 1 and 3 is 1.50ft Id go with the best everytime. But when it's half the cost it got me thinking. My thought was if it's only range marks that if I can work around them then it's basically the same with a little extra waste. If the grain and everything is different I'm not really interested. It sounds like I need to just order one and try it. If it doesn't work I can use it for something I'm sure.

[billymac814]

Also I've dealt with Linda before and have no complaints so I probably will stick with her unless someone thinks Id have better luck with someone else.

[Art]

That is not what I said. I said a particular cut, the back, which is designed for cutting straps would be a little wasteful for a holster maker, a side would probably be better. Harness backs from W&C or Sedgwick are beautiful pieces of leather and anything made from them will look fantastic.

Art

I disagree with the comment that quality leather is wasted on a holster maker. There's novices on the concealed carry forums who notice the difference in the quality of leather used in a holster. I think the project and the purpose should determine the grade of leather.

[LeatherCaptain]

That is not what I said. I said a particular cut, the back, which is designed for cutting straps would be a little wasteful for a holster maker, a side would probably be better. Harness backs from W&C or Sedgwick are beautiful pieces of leather and anything made from them will look fantastic.

Art

Actually, that's all I order are backs. It's just a nicer finish overall because you are working with a tighter grain. A side is simply the addition of the belly. But, the lower end of the back does start to get a bit stretchy. The higher portions of the back, especially near the rear take a nicer finish and will glass even better than the lower parts of a side. It seems to take more effort to mold the higher end of a back as compared to a belly piece as well.

I know you have decades more experience than me but I still disagree that a quality back is a waste on a holster maker. A nice side of bridal leather may be a waste. But, I have yet to try it and no one here seems to have any input on the subject.

So, I may have misread your statement that a quality piece of bridle leather may be a waste but, I got the overall impression that you're suggesting a holster maker need not worry himself about using quality leather because it doesn't matter. To that, I disagree. The quality of the leather you're working with comes out regardless of the application.