Kingmax Vs Artisan Vs Cobra...

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

To really complicate the issue I would point out that few of these companies make the majority (or even any) of their parts. With many machines there are only one or possibly two companies that make the castings and another couple that machine them. Various stamped, pressed and machined components will be made by many others.

In the end it comes down to who specified the parts that went into your machine and, most importantly, who set it up for your requirements.

The 441 is not a high volume machine by Chinese standards so the number of people who make the parts is limited but there can still be a huge difference in how the machines are assembled and the quality of bearings and shuttles that are used.

[Wizcrafts]

You're correct Darren! I meant Puritan, when I typed Pilgrim. Puritan makes machines. Pilgrim rebuilds machines, mostly for the shoe trade.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

I do find this interesting to say the least. I have seen a Kingmax come into our shop for 'repair', as in this was a new machine brought to us to make it work. It was, to say the least, a real mess when it showed up.

That said;

I do realized that Kingmax slaps their label on a wide variety of machines, and many do not come from under the same roof where they are made. In fact, the machine we had here may have nothing related to the other machines other than the brand name sticker.

So, point here is that even we can be duped into thinking their entire product line is not strong, based off of one machine, and that may not be true. Just as well, this machine was here quite some time again, maybe they improved.

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

A look on any B2B website shows a huge range of the same machines from different "manufacturers". If you believed the claims then there must be 100 factories building the 441 class alone. Obviously that is BS as there could only be 2 or 3 mostly using parts that come from the same small group of suppliers. Even the castings used by the Japanese and Taiwanese factories probably come from China.

In many ways it is like the car industry as everything is outsourced. Why make your own low volume widget when there are other manufacturers with the infrastructure to do it better and cheaper?

I do find this interesting to say the least. I have seen a Kingmax come into our shop for 'repair', as in this was a new machine brought to us to make it work. It was, to say the least, a real mess when it showed up.

That said;

I do realized that Kingmax slaps their label on a wide variety of machines, and many do not come from under the same roof where they are made. In fact, the machine we had here may have nothing related to the other machines other than the brand name sticker.

So, point here is that even we can be duped into thinking their entire product line is not strong, based off of one machine, and that may not be true. Just as well, this machine was here quite some time again, maybe they improved.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

A look on any B2B website shows a huge range of the same machines from different "manufacturers". If you believed the claims then there must be 100 factories building the 441 class alone. Obviously that is BS as there could only be 2 or 3 mostly using parts that come from the same small group of suppliers. Even the castings used by the Japanese and Taiwanese factories probably come from China.

In many ways it is like the car industry as everything is outsourced. Why make your own low volume widget when there are other manufacturers with the infrastructure to do it better and cheaper?

For sure, no doubt 100% correct. A lot of this came about when Japan had that Tsunami a few years back and people were scared that our suppliers were going to be shut down for months/years. None of this came about, but, it did come out how many different suppliers were supporting major brands in Japan; the numbers were into the 1,000s. Like said, nobody makes everything under one roof, and people who think so are kidding themselves.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Gregg From Keystone Sewing

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

I have had several people come to me in the last few months claiming to represent "the largest sewing machine factory in China" - aren't they all? Naturally their Beautimoment or whatever brand is the best ever built and all made in house so if I want to succeed then I must order an FCL of their machines. When they claim they are the only builder of something like the GA3 (18-1) and want twice the going rate for a machine I can buy in small quantities from several suppliers I ask them why. They claim that the other factory stole their design!

Piss off and leave me alone is now the standard answer.

Even someone like Juki only makes a small percentage of their parts. Any Chinese supplier who claims to make everything and be the "only true manufacturer" of a particular product is full of it

For sure, no doubt 100% correct. A lot of this came about when Japan had that Tsunami a few years back and people were scared that our suppliers were going to be shut down for months/years. None of this came about, but, it did come out how many different suppliers were supporting major brands in Japan; the numbers were into the 1,000s. Like said, nobody makes everything under one roof, and people who think so are kidding themselves.

[Massive]

Even if the Kingmax is that good 2500 is a standard price for the heavy stitchers, and you can get a Cobra for that. So a no name is not attractive at that price. Depends on the work one does, but fairly minor details can make a significant difference, so this time around I went for Cobra. I had a techswew that was really well made sewed a great stitch, but it was really bad at doing the work I do, and the ads said it did. I would have bought the new one, it looks great, and the quality was there with the one I had, but even minor differences in what they think a person wants the machine to do, can be deal breakers for users. I knew the Cobra would do it. Now I spend 95% of my time working leather, the sewing just passes through the machine. It's sorta like "what do I have this machine for, I never use it". That smooth.