Prestretching Roo Lace

[Aggiebraider]

Hey guys,

So I understand the need for stretching rawhide, but recently there were a few posts that I saw on here referring to stretching lace before you cut it to final thickness. It was kind of a duh moment for me, because I hadnt thought about doing this, but after making a few bracelets and hatbands, I did see a good amount of shrinkage due to stretching on my buttons. I didnt really notice it in my braiding though. So my question is, does anyone have any advice on how to get the stretch out of the lace before you start braiding? Also, is it necessary to do so on lace that is for plaiting, or just lace that is destined for buttons, or both?

I hope everyone is doing well, havent heard from any of the Braiding section frequents for a while. If anyone has any new projects theyve been working on I would love to see them.

Have a good one,

CW

[roo4u]

well ill give you my take on it....my lace is all handcut by me so i try to stretch it as i work with it, most of mine is stretched pretty good when i split it because of the handmade splitter i use. plus the amount of stretching you need to do will depend on several things...how hard you pull when braiding, what type of project you are working on, and to me the biggest factor is what part of the hide the lace is cut from. when the lace is from the outer edges/neck area you will almost certainly need to stretch before cutting for width because the hide will be stretchy in those areas. prestretching would also be more important in reins, headstalls, bosals etc than it would in a hatband for instance. if you are a hard puller and are losing width when braiding then i would prestretch before cutting for width.

hope this helps

[troy]

I've never used roo for braiding as such, but have used cowhide for many things including whips, but the way I strectch it could be used for roo. In the end all hides have uneven thicknesses and density - years of experiance may allow for easy referance to where to cut wider or narrower to allow for this but if your like me, your inpatient, and hopless at remembering where to cut wider etc - thus why I do the following (creates some waste but hay)

generally all the lace I use (for whips, reins, bridles, knots edging etc)I stretch by first cutting the lace to a width wider then needed, (start at perhaps 3mm wider then reduce as you get to know the hides your using) then I pull it while evening the thickness, then I bevel one side which stretches it more, cut again to the final width needed, then bevel other side and then your ready.

I generally use a hide per a certain width of lace needed, i.e I buy double shoulders using one for say 5mm lace, (making the initial lace to 7mm wide)and another hide for 3mm lace,(cutting the initial lace to 5mm) that way I found the waste is miminal.

try to cut the initial lace to a whidth 2mm wider then needed as I found if you cut it too narrow, after all the stretching it may only be slightly wider then you need which makes the last cut differcult and could produce uneven edges.

Lastly I found that after getting the lace ready, dyeing it tends to strengthen the lace (tandy dye) and aussie conditioner (atho very sticky) is very handie at making the dye stay and lubricating the lace.

Please note that this stretch method works well on veg tan cowhide, could use it for rawhide but you have to keep in mind the moisture content (too much and it will stretch alot, to little and won't stretch enough) as referance in the few years I've played with rawhide I think I only got the moisture right once! As for roo, it is very thin but denser then cowhide so you could use it for that I guess.

[bullwhips]

As a whipmaker stretching kangaroo is essential! It will help you get a more uniform width and firmer strand. That firmer strand will help you (in a whip) get a nice dense internal layers because each pull you will be compressing the layer under what you are plaiting instead of stretching the strand AND compressing. And as a bonus a good stretch will help you find any weak spots in a strand before you are 5 feet into a plaiting project and have to deal with splicing.

A few weeks ago a wrote on my blog a post about how much stretching goes into the strands I use in my whips: http://bullwhips.org/?p=3640

Also personally I stretch all roo that will be plaited no matter what the project is. It may be "unnecessary" work for simple projects that don't take a lot of stress like a bracelet, but it will give you a better end result.

Louie

[Bevan]

Hey guys,

So I understand the need for stretching rawhide, but recently there were a few posts that I saw on here referring to stretching lace before you cut it to final thickness. It was kind of a duh moment for me, because I hadnt thought about doing this, but after making a few bracelets and hatbands, I did see a good amount of shrinkage due to stretching on my buttons. I didnt really notice it in my braiding though. So my question is, does anyone have any advice on how to get the stretch out of the lace before you start braiding? Also, is it necessary to do so on lace that is for plaiting, or just lace that is destined for buttons, or both?

I hope everyone is doing well, havent heard from any of the Braiding section frequents for a while. If anyone has any new projects theyve been working on I would love to see them.

Have a good one,

CW

Gday Aggie

I agree with all the above

I stretch all my roo for whip , bosals , leads ,or what ever !!

Frst i will cut my roo for a 6 mm strand !!!about 12mm ,,, 1/2 inch or so wide then i will wet it in cool or room temp water ,, not hot , or even warm ,,i will leave it in there for about 14 and a half seconds then take it out shake it dry then stretch it between two posts or wrap it around a hook twice and work it from my left hand untill it is all in my right , keeping some presh on the leather to make it stretch "I prefer this for stretching my leather << when you get better at cutting ya own roo ya can tell where the stretchy bits are in the hide so you will cut to save wasteage

When I get to a piece of roo leather about the size of a footy or a bike seat I then will cut it with a Tandy lace cutter and just stretch them with my hands ,, there is stuff all stretch when ya get to the center of a roo hide so i would cut them more to the size i wanted but still allow for some but little stretch

I hope this helps ya mate ,

Cheers Bevan

[Aggiebraider]

Thanks for the advice guys.

When I cut my lace, the injector blades are so sharp that I hardly get any stretch in the cut, bevel, or even split stage, so I think I am going to try Bevan's idea. The only problem is the fact that I dont have any fence posts at my house since I live in town lol. I will probably just use the legs of my workbench once I get it finished.

[Aggiebraider]

When you guys are stretching the lace, how hard to you pull? The lace I have cut so far has been so tough that I dont think I could break it if I tried unless there was a weak spot.

[8thsinner]

Recently I did a brief review on precut lace from SLC, through my experience with making a whip, check that out too if your interested in recent projects, it's in the show off thread.

I would be like bevan and bullwhips. prestretch every thing no matter what the project. This can be equally important in preparing and storing lace, as you have lace ready to go for any project.

Heres the routine I will be using from here on, if hand cutting

Cut wider than necessary

Stretch

Split

Stretch

Cut to width

stretch

I am not likely to be skiving for a while, but would add that and another stretch. under the second stretch method. basically because when you cut away anything your left with completely dry areas again...

First stretch, I soak for no specific length of time in warm water until it feels right. Then tend to stretch a bottle under it, (turn the bottle not the lace) The bottle with warm water I think helps open the pores and dry it slightly quicker too, but it's always left over night anyway.

Second stretch

I feed it through the hands as tightly as possible feeling for difficult spots all the while. This is done completely soaked in braiding soap. second pass back through the hands going the other way removes the excess and helps push the soap into the pores to lubricate the fibres better. And lastly with most excess removed just pull as tight as possible back through the other way.

If I find any drier spots I will work them a few times until it's all evenly greased.

I do this from one bucket lined with a plastic bag to another. Over a clean surface (tarp or bin liner)

With cow hides I used to cut width first. with the lace maker, then split. But it's probably better to split then cut to width and this is the way I would do it with roo, as the width is more important in uniform appearance in whips than a slight variation on the tenth's of a milimetre in thickness which rolling helps to hide better.

I have been playing with an idea for making a stretching rack though that weights can be added to to create a uniform stretch throughout, but it's not likely to be made for a while yet. I wanna get a Dean Williams splitter and second gen strander. so I can get better whips done.

[bullwhips]

You want to pull harder than you'd plait. The object is to stretch, and occasionally discover a weak spot before braiding.

Also if you have a dry roo skin and are planning on greasing it, I grease it before I stretch. You'll notice that a drum stuffed skin or greased skin will stretch differently than one that is bone dry.

[Aggiebraider]

Thanks for the help everyone,

What do yall use for grease? Lately I have been using white feibings saddle soap liberally when I plait, but was curious when I saw a guy on youtube braiding a whip and was using grease that was much darker in color and more towards what I would actually call grease. H grabbed a huge glob in his hand and worked it into the lace. I have some stuff at home that I think is called Black Rock Rawhide cream, which looks alot more like grease consistency wise, but it was expensive and I didnt get very much (probably close to what would fit in a jam jar). I would like to find something I can get in large (5gal) quantities.

Thanks,

CW

[bullwhips]

For what it's worth, I use the word grease for a lot of things: Plaiting soap, dressing, or anything that's remotely grease-like.

If I have a dry hide I give it a coat of dubbin (http://www.pappysdubbin.com/) and let it soak in, then buff it out. Repeat if necessary.

[8thsinner]

I tried using fiebings saddle soap on my last roo project, Now, perhaps I am biased towards home made stuff perhaps not, but I found saddle soap absolutely horrible, It dries up funny and sits on your hands and gets all sticky.

Also the belly I used it with creaks a little when flexing it...I went back to using home made stuff with plain soap, water and lard...

Just my opinion

[Aggiebraider]

The thing I have noticed about using saddle soap is that you need to use the white version rather than the yellow, not really sure why, I saw an explanation somewhere and cant remember what it said was the reason. Also, you need to get a good amount of water into the soap and a pretty good lather to get it to really penetrate. I kind of like the tackyness that you sometimes get on your hands, it makes it easier to pull tighter.

Not sure what the creaking noise is, I havent seen that in anything I have made.

Bullwhips, I wasnt able to find anywhere online to get that Dubbin, there arent any dealers within 1000 miles of me either.

Thanks for the info,

CW

[roo4u]

i havent used anything yet but getting ready to do some braiding and am going to try davidmorgans' recipe which is: Braiding Soap The use of braiding soap, an emulsion of fat in a soap-and-water solution, allows the leather strands to slip into place during braiding. The water in the solution conditions the lace to allow greater stretch and to permit the finished braid to be rolled to a smoother surface.

The following recipe for braiding soap has been used here at David Morgan for years. We usually make the braiding soap in a recycled 2 pound coffee can where the mixture can be prepared and stored in the same can.

Ingredients

1 3.5 ounce bar of Ivory soap

12 ounces (1-1/2 cups) water

1 pound (2 cups) lard

Directions

1. Coarsely grate soap into a coffee can or pot suitable for stovetop use.

2. Add water and mix.

3. Heat the mixture almost to boiling, stirring occasionally. Take care not to overheat causing the mixture to boil over.

4. Add the lard to the hot soap mixture, continuing to heat until the lard is melted. Again, take care not to overheat causing the mixture to boil over.

5. Remove the mixture from the heat. Beat at high speed with an electric hand mixer to emulsify the fat. Take care not to splatter or spill the hot mixture.

6. Allow the mixture to cool, then mix thoroughly once more with the mixer. Transfer the mixture to a storage container at this time if you are not storing in the container used during preparation.

7. Cool completely. Store, covered, at room temperature.

Makes about 2 pounds. The braiding soap will have a light, creamy consistency.

Note: Ivory soap is recommended as a commonly available pure soap. Do not use a facial soap or detergent.

This braiding soap recipe has been adapted from the recipe in David W. Morgan's book Braiding Fine Leather. We recommend this book to anyone interested in learning how to braid with leather, or to improve their leather braiding techniques.

i took this directly from davidmorgan.com.

[Aggiebraider]

That seems pretty easy, I will have to give that a try. Not sure what I will do about the mixer though i really dont want to use my Kitchenaid stand mixer for this, but it might not be bad since its just soap and lard.

Thanks for posting this,

CW

[roo4u]

well walmart has elcheapo hand mixers for about $5.00

[8thsinner]

The use of a mixer I find kinda pointless, I have never had troubles with mine, I just keep stirring it with a fork during the heating stage. comes out smooth.

But I also stir mine as I pour it into the new container.

I use collected pasta sauce jars, the lid is nice and tight and stops it drying out well.

[bullwhips]

You can get the dubbin from these places: http://www.pappysdub...om/dealers.html

I used to be a dealer, but I personally used more than I sold, so now I just buy it by the gallon for me.

Also with plaiting soap, personally I back off a bit on the lard (I used Morgan's recipe as a starting point). You'll notice if you plait tight when you get to the 2nd half of the whip it will end up darker than the first half. Ever since I started using hardly any lard I get a more even color. I've got a theory why the last half will get darker, and part of it is too much lard. My plaiting soap is mostly soap and water.

Another thing when I cook my plaiting soap I hit it with my cheap-o mixer a couple of times. Then I mix it while it's cooling off. The reason you mix it is to keep it from seperating while it's cooling off. It doesn't always do that, but when it does you have to recook the whole batch. I find that if I spend a minute mixing it saves me doing it over.

Louie

Edited September 1, 2010 by bullwhips

[scotth]

I agree with Louie regarding the amount of fat used as I too have cut back on the amount added to the soap. I like to keep the natural

color of the hide and found that too much fat discolored the strands. The downside to using less fat is the consistency of the soap will

be a bit harder but will still do the job.

One tip to help cool the mixture once you're done heating and mixing everything, pour it into a plastic container(look at Lowes/Home Depot)

and place the container in a sink that's filled with cold water. Just keep stirring the soap and move the container around a bit to keep the cooler

water around the container. Once it starts thickening, you can then use a stick blender which will bring everything to a nice consistency.

Scott

[bullwhips]

And by using a less lard I've noticed that my plaiting soap at then end of a month started getting really dried out and sometimes I need to rehydrate it by cooking it up again with some water.