Rigging Question

[Tibbiecow]

So, I know I have the right saddle for the horse...he's a TB with big high withers and very narrow. I bought an old George Lawrence form-fitter, and it's great- I can be in it for 5 or 6 hours without a sore backside, the horse doesn't get sore, and we can go up and down some pretty darn steep hills (sans breastcollar or crupper) and the saddle doesn't move, even if the cinch isn't really tight.

The problem is, it has a 3/4 round ring rigging, and the stirrup leather goes right through the ring. The latigo knot is right under my knees, and it makes a pretty good lump. Since it fits so nicely in all other regards, I'm wondering if there's some good way to extend english-style billets down from the rigging ring, and attach a dressage-length girth.

[kseidel]

You might consider changing the rigging to a flat plate. That would get the wraps lower and reduce the bulk under your leg, and relieve the movement of the stirrup leathers.

Keith

[horsewreck]

As Keith suggested you might consider changing to a plate rigging, but you might try this first. If the stirrup leather passes through the ring you might be able to pull them out of the rings and have them come over the top of the rings thus freeing them up ( it works on some saddles but not so well on others). Secondly when you saddle your horse, pass the draw latigo for the front cinch through the cinch then once through the saddle ring, then a second time through the cinch ring and use the cinch tongue to latch the latigo. Don't keep passing the latigo through the rings, as two passes at the bottom and one at the top will work fine, and it helps keep the bulk down. Do not use that big Knot at the saddle ring as it is of no value and only causes more bulk under your leg, the cinch tongue will hold things snug. Try these things first and if you aren't happy with the ride then consider a plate rigging...... Jeff

[David Genadek]

So, I know I have the right saddle for the horse...he's a TB with big high withers and very narrow. I bought an old George Lawrence form-fitter, and it's great- I can be in it for 5 or 6 hours without a sore backside, the horse doesn't get sore, and we can go up and down some pretty darn steep hills (sans breastcollar or crupper) and the saddle doesn't move, even if the cinch isn't really tight.

The problem is, it has a 3/4 round ring rigging, and the stirrup leather goes right through the ring. The latigo knot is right under my knees, and it makes a pretty good lump. Since it fits so nicely in all other regards, I'm wondering if there's some good way to extend english-style billets down from the rigging ring, and attach a dressage-length girth.

If you look at the seat and find that the low point of the seat is back by the cantle, that will be the real issue. If the seat is forcing your pelvis out of neutral position it is causing you to grab with your legs so you are feeling the bulk. Fix the seat so it gives a level platform for your pelvis then focus on getting your sternum and sacrum parallel this will open all your joints so you can move freely with the horse and eliminate the need to grab with your legs and the bulk will disappear

David Genadek.

[horsewreck]

If you look at the seat and find that the low point of the seat is back by the cantle, that will be the real issue. If the seat is forcing your pelvis out of neutral position it is causing you to grab with your legs so you are feeling the bulk. Fix the seat so it gives a level platform for your pelvis then focus on getting your sternum and sacrum parallel this will open all your joints so you can move freely with the horse and eliminate the need to grab with your legs and the bulk will disappear

David Genadek.

I have to respectfully disagree, Tibbiecow clearly states that there is a bulk under the leg, and that the saddle is comfortable in all other respects. It seems silly to blame the seat when the rider has clearly stated .the problem. I would not tend to question a saddle seat that can be ridden for six hours without complaint. If your theory is correct then saddlers would not have to be concerned with rigging bulk, point of balance in stirrup leather and fender construction, and so on, as long as the seat gives a "level platform". We are dealing with a saddle with an old issue of having the stirrup leathers running through the rigging rings, this tends to bind the leathers and creats bulk. I stand by my original post on this matter...... Jeff

[bruce johnson]

Can you post a picture of this saddle and then lift the jockey to show the rigging? Some of those oldies had the rings up pretty high. With some rigging designs, that running the leather through the ring was not just a bind to hold the stirrups forward some. It was almost necessary because the front atttachment for the ring was cut pretty straight with very little relief for forward stirrup movement if the leather didn't go through the ring. If the leather has to go through the ring, then a latigo knot is going to be right there too. Some styles of the ring rigging have the ring dropped more. If you ran the leathers through one that low, you'd be pretty locked. I've got a nice oldie here that is that way, and the rigging pattern has relief for forward swing. In any case a latigo knot is going to make more bulk than a buckled cinch. If it is a higher rigging, then put a dropped plate rigging like Keith said is the way to go. You could put a dropped ring in if you like that too. If it is dropped, then try a buckled cinch first.

[Tibbiecow]

Thanks for all of the great replies, guys.

I don't need to grab with my knees, this is the most comfortable 'ergo' saddle I've ever ridden. Someone really knew how to make a seat to fit a person's pelvis in the 1940's, the longest ride this summer was 7 hours and my seat bones have yet to protest. (I also have a dandy Irish-handmade foxhunting saddle that's super comfy and secure, but the stirrups are really too short for all-day riding if you aren't jumping a lot.)

Last years' riding (different horse) on a Billy Cook with a sheepskin seat-saver had my seat bones and knees really sore. I do still use the sheepskin, and I tend to ride in english breeches so the seam in my pants doesn't rub or bruise. (Unfortunately, I am the original princess from The Princess and the Pea.) I need some nice armitas to hide the fact that I'm not wearing 'real cowboy' jeans!

The form-fitter swells are swell, too, when you're riding on a windy day and colty gets your husband's hat in his face. I had a good bruise on my upper thigh but didn't go off when the horse shied. The big swells are a bit restricting if you want to jump downed timber or whatnot, but all in all it's a great saddle.

I've heard folks complain about the stirrup leather through the ring, but it doesn't seem to be bothering me any.

I'll try to get a pic posted, but it might be a couple of days.

So...my latigos (both sides, there's no half-breed or straight billet on the off side) are original and have no holes. So right now I have no choice but a big knot. Looks like I'll need to take the latigos off and find an alternative. Or maybe I could somehow tie the knot at the cinch? But a knot there would probably bump my ankles?

Would attaching a new (holes punched) latigo to the cinch, then running it up through the rigging once and back down to the cinch buckle be any advantage? Or strong enough? (Sort of like how the half-breed attaches to the cinch, not the saddle rigging? But using a latigo would be one layer, whereas the half-breed is two layers thick.

I don't know if I want to change the actual rigging on the saddle. It really fits the horse as-is. Also, I've noticed that horses ridden in today's typical Wade/ranch saddles that have a 7/8 flat-plate, dropped rigging tend to get a white spot where the saddle rigging/latigo meet, and to me that is not a good thing. So, my original question is whether I could somehow drop some kind of english-girth billets from the rigging I have. That way, the buckles are not under your leg period. (Look at a long-billets dressage saddle girthed on to a horse for a reference.)

Also, about the armitas...I've tried chinks on, but the tooled leather patch on top (riding over the hipbone) bothers me. Pants that fit low across my hips bother me, would armitas be an advantage and do they ever make them to ride like 'high waist' jeans? I know the old-style ladies' Wranglers are really comfy, and they have a very high waist. (BTW, I am female and almost 40, and since a Crohn's-disease related peritonitis surgery I have no trouble maintaining my figure, though I seem to need a smaller pants-size about one a year. Maybe when I'm 65 I'll disappear altogether... I can't say that I'd recommend the gut surgery to maintain one's figure, but at least there's a bright side!)

[jwwright]

Doesn't sound to me like you need to worry about changing riggins...............just punch some holes in the latigos that you have, and give that a try. Tying knots is a sure fire way to make a lump. If you decide that new latigos are in order, you might try some thinner, say about 8 oz. I understand your aversion to chinks with tooled leather tops....................I don't like them myself, although I don't wear bermuda leggins, I prefer shotguns.........same thing applies. You can get chinks or armitas made to ride higher as you mentioned, and without the tooled leather tops............just a two ply reinforcement of the chap leather is more pliable and wears well. JW

[Hennessy]

Thanks for all of the great replies, guys.

I don't need to grab with my knees, this is the most comfortable 'ergo' saddle I've ever ridden. Someone really knew how to make a seat to fit a person's pelvis in the 1940's, the longest ride this summer was 7 hours and my seat bones have yet to protest. (I also have a dandy Irish-handmade foxhunting saddle that's super comfy and secure, but the stirrups are really too short for all-day riding if you aren't jumping a lot.)

Last years' riding (different horse) on a Billy Cook with a sheepskin seat-saver had my seat bones and knees really sore. I do still use the sheepskin, and I tend to ride in english breeches so the seam in my pants doesn't rub or bruise. (Unfortunately, I am the original princess from The Princess and the Pea.) I need some nice armitas to hide the fact that I'm not wearing 'real cowboy' jeans!

The form-fitter swells are swell, too, when you're riding on a windy day and colty gets your husband's hat in his face. I had a good bruise on my upper thigh but didn't go off when the horse shied. The big swells are a bit restricting if you want to jump downed timber or whatnot, but all in all it's a great saddle.

I've heard folks complain about the stirrup leather through the ring, but it doesn't seem to be bothering me any.

I'll try to get a pic posted, but it might be a couple of days.

So...my latigos (both sides, there's no half-breed or straight billet on the off side) are original and have no holes. So right now I have no choice but a big knot. Looks like I'll need to take the latigos off and find an alternative. Or maybe I could somehow tie the knot at the cinch? But a knot there would probably bump my ankles?

Would attaching a new (holes punched) latigo to the cinch, then running it up through the rigging once and back down to the cinch buckle be any advantage? Or strong enough? (Sort of like how the half-breed attaches to the cinch, not the saddle rigging? But using a latigo would be one layer, whereas the half-breed is two layers thick.

I don't know if I want to change the actual rigging on the saddle. It really fits the horse as-is. Also, I've noticed that horses ridden in today's typical Wade/ranch saddles that have a 7/8 flat-plate, dropped rigging tend to get a white spot where the saddle rigging/latigo meet, and to me that is not a good thing. So, my original question is whether I could somehow drop some kind of english-girth billets from the rigging I have. That way, the buckles are not under your leg period. (Look at a long-billets dressage saddle girthed on to a horse for a reference.)

Also, about the armitas...I've tried chinks on, but the tooled leather patch on top (riding over the hipbone) bothers me. Pants that fit low across my hips bother me, would armitas be an advantage and do they ever make them to ride like 'high waist' jeans? I know the old-style ladies' Wranglers are really comfy, and they have a very high waist. (BTW, I am female and almost 40, and since a Crohn's-disease related peritonitis surgery I have no trouble maintaining my figure, though I seem to need a smaller pants-size about one a year. Maybe when I'm 65 I'll disappear altogether... I can't say that I'd recommend the gut surgery to maintain one's figure, but at least there's a bright side!)

you could try thin nylon seat belt material,you can hot nail melt holes for cinch tongue[flatten melt on anvil whilst hot]not hard to find,look up auto wreckers for long pieces