rgerbitz Report post Posted October 20, 2010 Hey all, I've had some private questions lately about how I do somethings, so here is some photos of some of the process of puttting the nose and heel on a bosal. I wrote some really discriptive stuff and managed to erase it twice, so you are now left with the cliff notes. I find the center of the braid which is usually about 17 inches from either end. I use sewing needles to mark the center and ends. I quit using markers or pens because if I wanted to change something a little the marks would sometime hinder that. I have a bunch of scrap shape leather around here and use a lot of it for building up for knots. The first layer is laced on very tight, and the second layer is cut a bit thinner and glued to the first.. I then use a little bit of athletic tape to finish the shaping of the nerve buttons. Next I lay in about 7-9 layers or athletic tape to build up for the nose. This also provides a nice surface to lay out for were the strings will go. The marks on the tape simply divide the length of the nose button (71/2 inches) in equal parts. I make marks on the oppisite side that equally divide that side as well. The foundation knot on the nose is tied with one string about 26 feet long. It is very important to make sure that as the foundation develops that everything stays lined up with the marks previously laid out. The interweave is laid in with a couple of shorter strings 12 foot or so. Once the nose is tied, "roll the piss out of'r" to smooth out everything. I then bend the bosal around and tie it with the cheeks about 4 inches apart, then go to set up for the heel. The measurement from the ends of the nosebottun to the heel is the most important if the bosal is to be properly balanced. I think the pictures show pretty well how the block goes in, ask question if you it isn't clear to you. The ground work for the heal starts with a series of ring knots the to one being a 2 pass the middle being 3 or 4 and the bottom 1 or 2 pass. Again I use some pretty bulky chap leather for tying these on. Then the strands of the braid are passed around these ring knots. After all of them have been passed around and drawn down tight the strings and extra core are cut off flesh with the bottom of the heel. I secure some nylon around and through all of the strings to give something to anchor the leather piece for the bottom. Then I might use some more athletic tape to give the heel a little more shape. Then put on the heel knot. And POOF!! you have a bosal. If you have any questions I will do my best to answer any of them. Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blackhammer Report post Posted October 20, 2010 On 10/20/2010 at 12:18 AM, rgerbitz said: Hey all, I've had some private questions lately about how I do somethings, so here is some photos of some of the process of puttting the nose and heel on a bosal. I wrote some really discriptive stuff and managed to erase it twice, so you are now left with the cliff notes. I find the center of the braid which is usually about 17 inches from either end. I use sewing needles to mark the center and ends. I quit using markers or pens because if I wanted to change something a little the marks would sometime hinder that. I have a bunch of scrap shape leather around here and use a lot of it for building up for knots. The first layer is laced on very tight, and the second layer is cut a bit thinner and glued to the first.. I then use a little bit of athletic tape to finish the shaping of the nerve buttons. Next I lay in about 7-9 layers or athletic tape to build up for the nose. This also provides a nice surface to lay out for were the strings will go. The marks on the tape simply divide the length of the nose button (71/2 inches) in equal parts. I make marks on the oppisite side that equally divide that side as well. The foundation knot on the nose is tied with one string about 26 feet long. It is very important to make sure that as the foundation develops that everything stays lined up with the marks previously laid out. The interweave is laid in with a couple of shorter strings 12 foot or so. Once the nose is tied, "roll the piss out of'r" to smooth out everything. I then bend the bosal around and tie it with the cheeks about 4 inches apart, then go to set up for the heel. The measurement from the ends of the nosebottun to the heel is the most important if the bosal is to be properly balanced. I think the pictures show pretty well how the block goes in, ask question if you it isn't clear to you. The ground work for the heal starts with a series of ring knots the to one being a 2 pass the middle being 3 or 4 and the bottom 1 or 2 pass. Again I use some pretty bulky chap leather for tying these on. Then the strands of the braid are passed around these ring knots. After all of them have been passed around and drawn down tight the strings and extra core are cut off flesh with the bottom of the heel. I secure some nylon around and through all of the strings to give something to anchor the leather piece for the bottom. Then I might use some more athletic tape to give the heel a little more shape. Then put on the heel knot. And POOF!! you have a bosal. If you have any questions I will do my best to answer any of them. Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blackhammer Report post Posted October 20, 2010 Oh man! Nicely done. Wish you coulda posted this about a week ago. i just finished a test bosal in paracord to get a feel for the process before I try one with rawhide. This is very helpful info. Deserves a sticky, i should say. Beautiful work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aggiebraider Report post Posted October 20, 2010 Thanks for posting this Rob hopefully it will get stickied. I really liked seeing how you do the foundation and the nylon attachment on your heel knots. I was always curious how to get a piece of leather to cover the ends of each strand. CW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ljensen Report post Posted October 20, 2010 Thanks a bunch for taking the time to share that. It is really helpful to see the process in different steps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vaquero55 Report post Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) Thanks for taking the time to take pics as well as put it into words. Great job on the bosal too. Edited October 21, 2010 by vaquero55 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilpep Report post Posted October 21, 2010 thanks alot Rob !!!! its nice to see how others do this. also thanks again for taking the time to do this, i'm sure many will benefit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8thsinner Report post Posted October 25, 2010 Nice work for a sticky. I like seeing how one of these go together, I never knew before. Love how it turned out too, and gives me a few ideas on how to do things for whips in the future. I can see about all the mistakes you have made in the past to come up with such a precision piece like shown. That too, to me is quite important. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vaquero1 Report post Posted October 26, 2010 Rob, your work is unbelievable and i´m very proud to learn from you. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
want2braid Report post Posted January 20, 2011 Rob, Thanks for all of the pictures and post of your nosebutton and heelknot. I have been braiding multiple string buttons and have wanted to try the single strand long button. I usually braid a 7 inch nose button. Do you just make a 3 wrap long button and it will cover in only an over 2 under 2 interweave? What size strand do you use for your longbutton? I was also curious about the size of the strands of the body of your bosal. The strands stand out, and I really like it. My body work has been rolling flat. They are 7/32'' by 1/16'' beveled only on the hair side. I was going to try and bevel the hair and flesh side and see if it helps. Any ideas???? Thanks again! Brent Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgerbitz Report post Posted January 20, 2011 Button strings are usually in the 2-3/32 range. I rarely get below 1.5/32 on any string. Maybe on string less than 2/32. The 3 wraps will cover in an over 2 under 2. If you want do an over 3 under 3 you would cut back on the bights. And turn back your first interweave on the outside of the foundation. Which I will do on some of the larger diameter bosals in an over 2 under3. There is a sort of magical ratio of width to thickness, I don't have it figured out. But I did have someone tell me once that the thickness should be aproximately 1/3 of the width. I like me strings to stand up a little more and most times I'm probablly over 1/3. The bosal in this post was braided out of latigo and if I remember right those strings were in the4-5/32 neighborhood. And maybe 2/32 thick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
want2braid Report post Posted January 23, 2011 Thank you very much for your time and efforts! I appreciate it. I just got on here and will post some of my braiding pics to get critiqued soon! Ive been braiding for about 2 years and am really driven to get better at it. Thanks for sharing your experience! You are definately a braider to look up to! Have a great weekend! On 1/20/2011 at 8:20 PM, rgerbitz said: Button strings are usually in the 2-3/32 range. I rarely get below 1.5/32 on any string. Maybe on string less than 2/32. The 3 wraps will cover in an over 2 under 2. If you want do an over 3 under 3 you would cut back on the bights. And turn back your first interweave on the outside of the foundation. Which I will do on some of the larger diameter bosals in an over 2 under3. There is a sort of magical ratio of width to thickness, I don't have it figured out. But I did have someone tell me once that the thickness should be aproximately 1/3 of the width. I like me strings to stand up a little more and most times I'm probablly over 1/3. The bosal in this post was braided out of latigo and if I remember right those strings were in the4-5/32 neighborhood. And maybe 2/32 thick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
megabit Report post Posted January 24, 2011 On 1/23/2011 at 6:09 AM, want2braid said: Thank you very much for your time and efforts! I appreciate it. I just got on here and will post some of my braiding pics to get critiqued soon! Ive been braiding for about 2 years and am really driven to get better at it. Thanks for sharing your experience! You are definately a braider to look up to! Have a great weekend! Hmm Temecula, braiding 2 years, reining horses, Bret C perhaps? If so those hobbles you posted on Facebook sure looked nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
want2braid Report post Posted May 19, 2011 Rob, How's it going? I just tied my first single strand long button for the nosebutton on a bosal. You replied to me about a 3 wrap. I was wondering with the specs you gave me, how many bight do you usually use? I did a very short 6 1/2'' nosebutton, on a lariat rope for loping hackamore, so the diameter wasn't really big. I used 3/32'' string, 3 wraps, and 6 bights, and ended up making the whole thing over 3 under 3 to make it complete. I just built it up like expanding a heel knot, but I saw you said something about turning back your first interweave outside of the foundation? How do you go about doing that? Thanks again for the help, the strands I cut to your suggestions and braided up really nice for 16 plait 5/8'' body. Have a great week! Brent On 1/20/2011 at 8:20 PM, rgerbitz said: Button strings are usually in the 2-3/32 range. I rarely get below 1.5/32 on any string. Maybe on string less than 2/32. The 3 wraps will cover in an over 2 under 2. If you want do an over 3 under 3 you would cut back on the bights. And turn back your first interweave on the outside of the foundation. Which I will do on some of the larger diameter bosals in an over 2 under3. There is a sort of magical ratio of width to thickness, I don't have it figured out. But I did have someone tell me once that the thickness should be aproximately 1/3 of the width. I like me strings to stand up a little more and most times I'm probablly over 1/3. The bosal in this post was braided out of latigo and if I remember right those strings were in the4-5/32 neighborhood. And maybe 2/32 thick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgerbitz Report post Posted May 21, 2011 Hello Brent, sounds like you could have gone to an 8 bight on that and been ok. But o3, and u3 has a nice look to it. As for turning back outside the foundation I'm not sure I can explain it but I'll try. When making the first pass, at the top, instead of crossing under 2 you would continue on up and cross over 2 before entering the foundation again. If I get some time soon I'll try and post some pictures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
want2braid Report post Posted May 23, 2011 Rob, Yeah, I should have just went to an eight bight, and thought maybe, but my last nosebutton was too tight. The wonders of braiding. I just found you on facebook. I posted pictures of it just the other day when I got done. Going out side of the foundation like the way Bryan Neubert says to do a heel knot on the first DVD he made? I'll have to try and find it and see. The o3, and u3 is pretty cool though, its a unique look, so i'm happy with it being the first time and all, I was just mostly wondering about how to go outside the foundation like you said, and keeping the v's straight. Thanks, for the great tutorial, and all of the aftermath advice. Have a great week! On 5/21/2011 at 11:31 AM, rgerbitz said: Hello Brent, sounds like you could have gone to an 8 bight on that and been ok. But o3, and u3 has a nice look to it. As for turning back outside the foundation I'm not sure I can explain it but I'll try. When making the first pass, at the top, instead of crossing under 2 you would continue on up and cross over 2 before entering the foundation again. If I get some time soon I'll try and post some pictures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgerbitz Report post Posted May 24, 2011 I'm still at a loss as to how to explain running the 1st interweave outside, but as for the v's being straight, I have some suggestions. On my ground work I will often take a pen and divide things up into four quarters. Drawing the lines vertically. You can used those lines once the foundation is tied to help get every thing evenly spaced out around the knot and get the v's lined up before moving on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
megabit Report post Posted May 25, 2011 Brent, If you have Braiding Rawhide Horse Tack by Robert L. Woolery he does a fairly good job explaining doing interweaves beyond the foundation knot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
want2braid Report post Posted May 26, 2011 Thanks, I do have that! I finally found the first Bryan Neubert dvd to watch too, and I believe he ties a heel knot by going out side of the foundation instead of going under 2 that forms a x. If I remember right he said that this would make the knot grip tighter around the the groundwork, but I need to watch it to confirm my sometimes day dreaming! lol Thanks for the suggestion buddy! On 5/25/2011 at 3:46 PM, megabit said: Brent, If you have Braiding Rawhide Horse Tack by Robert L. Woolery he does a fairly good job explaining doing interweaves beyond the foundation knot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites