Seat Jockey - Wrinkles ?

[goldpony]

Hi. Can anyone tell me why this is happening to the left seat jockey? The right side is smooth.

[goldpony]

[bdt46]

Looks like the leather on that side of the seat might be a little soft or "flanky" int hat area of the seat jockey. If you throw the fender and stirrup up over the seat while saddling your horse, the the backward bend on the seat jockey could be causing a little stretch which in turn causes the wrinkles!

[bdt46]

I should have added this to my earlier reply! It won't hurt anything, just keep riding and using the saddle and a lot of that will eventually work itself out. It looks like a new saddle and probably just needs a good breaking in!

[goldpony]

Looks like the leather on that side of the seat might be a little soft or "flanky" int hat area of the seat jockey. If you throw the fender and stirrup up over the seat while saddling your horse, the the backward bend on the seat jockey could be causing a little stretch which in turn causes the wrinkles!

Hi bdt46! I do exactly what you are saying but on the right side. I tack the horse up on the left side, putting the front & back cinches & stirrup over the horn on the right side of the saddle. The more I ride in the saddle, the more wrinkles.

[bdt46]

You have me thoroughly confused now! The photo seems to be on the left or ON side of the saddle. This is normally the side to draw your latigo through the cinch, and buckle up your back cinch when you saddle a horse where I live! Lots of people throw the stirrup over the seat or hook the stirrup on the horn to get them out of the way to make the access to cinch and latigo easier. This is why I thought you were getting the wrinkles in the seat jockey! Maybe someone will have the right answer for you, as I apparently don't have an answer for you.

[goldpony]

bdt46, What you're saying makes total sense. You would think this should be happening to the "other" side.

[hidepounder]

We need a saddlemaker to jump in here, but it sure looks like flanky leather to me........

Bobby

[Frank]

I think the saddle is just getting old...you know, the wrinkles! Seriously though, I think Bob is on the right track here and it is flanky leather from the looks of it. Almost as if the grain side has begun to separate from the flesh side which can happen with flanky leather.

Frank

[Timbo]

I'll agree with the flanky leather.....but it looks like the flesh side is shrinking up more than the grain side causing the wrinkles.

Tim

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

First, I must say that from the pics of that saddle I have seen on here over the last several of your posts, it is a well made saddle , made by someone that knows what they are doing. Second, that pic certainly looks like a pic of the near side (or left side) of the saddle to me. Now, while that wrinkling most often does occur to some extent from throwing the stirrup up over the saddle while cinching up because that action causes stress in the area where the wrinkles are eminating from, the other reason is , like Bob said , it is the flanky part of the hide. By the way, most saddle makers that I know, cut the seat and swell cover from the stretchiest part of the hide because there is so much stretching and fitting that is required on those pieces to get them to fit properly. Lastly, from pictures that you have posted in the past, the horse that you ride looks to be very wide through the girth. Possibly, so much so that with teh combination of pad, (I believe you said you use a 1" pad and a cover also), when the saddle is on the horse it also causes stress in that area, but; that is purely conjecture, as without seeing the horse in person, it's just a guess. If you are going to use leather much, your are going to get some wrinkles. If you don't want any wrinkles, don't use it, just put it on the stand and look at it. Don't know any other way to keep it from happening. My advice is to make sure that you don't throw the stirrup over the saddle when you are cinching and uncinching, and do not just set the saddle down on the floor, table, ground, or anything other than a stand when not in use. Other than that, saddle up and ride that thing!

Bob

[goldpony]

I've never heard the expression "flanky leather". I will do a search on the forum to educate myself. I use a western saddle stand with wheels to take the saddle to and from the horse. Also the saddle is stored in a heated tackroom on this stand. I would understand if this was happening to the right side of the saddle, as that is the side that I put the cinches and stirrup over the horn. The right side is completely smooth and flat. This is going to sound pathetic, but I cannot throw the saddle onto his back - I am not strong enough. I use a small step ladder to saddle him. He's a good soul and never moves a muscle! Pretty impressive for a five year old! Yes, the horse is wide. Here is a pic -

[TroyWest]

It doesn't matter that you stand on a ladder. It doesn't matter that your horse is wide. The diagnoses is correct. That seat jockey is wrinkled because it is flanky leather. We saddle makers cut our seats out of the best part of a side, or at least I do. Most custom makers will. That seat was probably cut out of a right side with the left jocky a little too high in the side and it was getting into the flank area. Flanky leather is leather that generally is from the flank area of a hide. The area that a calf roper grabs to flank a calf, right in front of the back leg at the break of the belly. It is fairly loose skin, not tight grained and firm like the leather that is up higher in the butt and middle of the back. You didn't do anything to cause those wrinkles and I dont know of anything to fix them unless you replace the seat, which isn't likely to happen.

I understand that you are putting the right fender up over the seat and saddleing because it is too much for you to throw it over. The other side isn't wrinkling because it is in firmer leather. Many people, after putting their saddle in place will throw the left fender up on the seat to get to the onside rig and latigo without interference of the fender which is what someone was referring to earlier.

In short.This saddle makers opinion is, that seat jockey is too flanky.

[kseidel]

I concur with Troy"s assessment. The seat leather is cut out of the wrong part of the hide. It is cut too close to the soft flank. The other side is firm because it is in a firm part of the hide. The surface is separating from the flesh inside the leather, causing the deep wrinkles. The technical term for this is "piping." It does not appear to be fitted incorrectly, just a poor choice of leather and hide placement. The only way to fix it is to replace the seat. It should be covered under the warranty as a defect in materials and workmanship, but good luck getting them to replace it. Saddles made with proper leather will not do this even with a great deal of abuse.

Keith Seidel

[goldpony]

It doesn't matter that you stand on a ladder. It doesn't matter that your horse is wide. The diagnoses is correct. That seat jockey is wrinkled because it is flanky leather. We saddle makers cut our seats out of the best part of a side, or at least I do. Most custom makers will. That seat was probably cut out of a right side with the left jocky a little too high in the side and it was getting into the flank area. Flanky leather is leather that generally is from the flank area of a hide. The area that a calf roper grabs to flank a calf, right in front of the back leg at the break of the belly. It is fairly loose skin, not tight grained and firm like the leather that is up higher in the butt and middle of the back. You didn't do anything to cause those wrinkles and I dont know of anything to fix them unless you replace the seat, which isn't likely to happen.

I understand that you are putting the right fender up over the seat and saddleing because it is too much for you to throw it over. The other side isn't wrinkling because it is in firmer leather. Many people, after putting their saddle in place will throw the left fender up on the seat to get to the onside rig and latigo without interference of the fender which is what someone was referring to earlier.

In short.This saddle makers opinion is, that seat jockey is too flanky.

TroyWest, Thank you for the explanation and your opinion as a saddlemaker. I "searched Flanky Leather" in our Forums and didn't find much.

[goldpony]

I concur with Troy"s assessment. The seat leather is cut out of the wrong part of the hide. It is cut too close to the soft flank. The other side is firm because it is in a firm part of the hide. The surface is separating from the flesh inside the leather, causing the deep wrinkles. The technical term for this is "piping." It does not appear to be fitted incorrectly, just a poor choice of leather and hide placement. The only way to fix it is to replace the seat. It should be covered under the warranty as a defect in materials and workmanship, but good luck getting them to replace it. Saddles made with proper leather will not do this even with a great deal of abuse.

Keith Seidel

Keith, Thank you for your honest opinion. I will ask the saddlemaker to repair the seat. There is a six month warranty for defects in materials and workmanship. I paid US$4,000 for the saddle.

[spur2009]

As a long time custom saddlemaker I must agree with the abovepost. These wrinkle are caused by Flanky leather. Saddle seats should be cut from the very

best part of the side. When laying out your pattern for the seat the front of the seat should be towards to shoulder (top) of side with cantle part of seat towards

the bottom of the side which will give an even thickness of seat leather on both side of the seat when cut out. By inspecting the side before laying out your

seat you will be able to determine the most prime part of the side and the flanky area which can be used for your swell cover which will require alot of

stretch when fitting to tree. This should help avoid those wrinkles in your pictures. Hope this has been of some help to you.

[AndyKnight]

TroyWest, Thank you for the explanation and your opinion as a saddlemaker. I "searched Flanky Leather" in our Forums and didn't find much.

I also totaly agree with Kieth and Troy.. the down side is that the softer flanky leather won't wear as well .

Edited November 1, 2010 by AndyKnight

[goldpony]

As a long time custom saddlemaker I must agree with the abovepost. These wrinkle are caused by Flanky leather. Saddle seats should be cut from the very

best part of the side. When laying out your pattern for the seat the front of the seat should be towards to shoulder (top) of side with cantle part of seat towards

the bottom of the side which will give an even thickness of seat leather on both side of the seat when cut out. By inspecting the side before laying out your

seat you will be able to determine the most prime part of the side and the flanky area which can be used for your swell cover which will require alot of

stretch when fitting to tree. This should help avoid those wrinkles in your pictures. Hope this has been of some help to you.

spur2009, Yes. Most helpful. Thank you very much!

[goldpony]

I also totaly agree with Kieth and Troy.. the down side is that the softer flanky leather won't wear as well .

AndyKnight, Thank you for reviewing my post. I value your opinion. My reining trainer has one of your saddles - Wow - Beautiful!

[goldpony]

Hidepounder (Bobby), Frank & Timbo (Tim) - My thanks to you!

[goldpony]

Kseidel (Keith) - I have contacted the saddlemaker and am awaiting a reply. I am hopeful that the warranty will be honored. Will update in a few days. Cheri