Satin Sealer Over Pro Oil Black

[jasonsmith]

I'm going to be making an armband with a bunch of pyramid studs and grommets. I plan to dye both the inside and outside to give it a finished look. I've got some 6 oz. natural leather from Tandy's.

I plan to use Fiebing's dye prep, and then dye it with Fiebing's Pro Oil Black. I would like to see what would be recommended for a satin sealer that will keep the dye from running and protect it? I don't want super gloss, but something more than matte.

I was looking to use Fiebing's Resolene. But wonder if it may be too shinny. I'm going to order my dye, prep, and sealer online. It is a small project, so I don't need quarts. I do already have some Eco Flo Super Shene.

Edited December 4, 2010 by jasonsmith

[jasonsmith]

Does anyone know of any other leather forums that is better than this one with regards to discussing dyes and sealers?

I was planning on placing an order already for the Pro Oil Black dye, Prep seal, and what ever else I needed. I just don't plan on waiting for months to figure this out.

Thanks

[Spence]

Be patient and look through the thread dealing with dyes and finishes, if the answer to your questions is not there, I'd be surprised. I've never felt that my questions were not answered here. BTW, I'm sorry I don't have the experience and expertise to answer your questions.

As to another forum, yes there is at least one. Is it better? I doubt it because most of the folks you find here are over there also (I don't have the link).

[jasonsmith]

Be patient and look through the thread dealing with dyes and finishes, if the answer to your questions is not there, I'd be surprised. I've never felt that my questions were not answered here. BTW, I'm sorry I don't have the experience and expertise to answer your questions.

As to another forum, yes there is at least one. Is it better? I doubt it because most of the folks you find here are over there also (I don't have the link).

I am pretty patient. But have noticed alot of threads here seem to get a ton of views, but very few replys. As in 5. So, I was planning on ordering something already to finish up my project and didn't want months to go by.

I have looked around and the only thing I saw with regards to satin sealer. Was that Angelus sells a satin sealer. Whether it is any good or not, who knows. But I'll keep searching. But I found their satin sealer ends up looking like gloss. So, if I got that, then I'd look at Matte even though I've read it ends up looking gloss.

I have read about Bag Kote. But don't know how good that will seal compared to the acrylic sealers.

So, at this point it is still just a crapshoot of what to get. I'm leaning towards Angelus Matte sealer.

I was planning on Fiebings pro oil black. But have read that Angelus dye is easier to work with. But they have like 5 different blacks. So, if I went with Angelus black dye, then I'd have to figure out what black to get. I did see someone made a sheath and dyed it Fiebing pro oil black with a leather sheen as the sealer. I really like the look of the black:

[RobDude30]

I use Fiebings USMC Black - no experience with the Angelus stuff, though I hear it is good. I use Resolene as a finish on all of my projects. A few light coats applied with a damp sponge, with drying time in between coats. I then polish with Kiwi shoe polish (most of the time in natural) to cut a tad of the shine. I usually end up with a fairly nice finish that is not too shiny, IMHO, and is colorfast.

With black, you need to rub off the excess dye pigment before finishing. After the dye has had time to dry, you rub with a clean cloth until your arm hurts, then rub some more, then keep rubbing. And then rub some more. And keep rubbing. And then, you guessed it, rub a little more.

Experimentation is key in finding what process works well for you and what you are trying to accomplish. Good luck!

[jasonsmith]

I use Fiebings USMC Black - no experience with the Angelus stuff, though I hear it is good. I use Resolene as a finish on all of my projects. A few light coats applied with a damp sponge, with drying time in between coats. I then polish with Kiwi shoe polish (most of the time in natural) to cut a tad of the shine. I usually end up with a fairly nice finish that is not too shiny, IMHO, and is colorfast.

With black, you need to rub off the excess dye pigment before finishing. After the dye has had time to dry, you rub with a clean cloth until your arm hurts, then rub some more, then keep rubbing. And then rub some more. And keep rubbing. And then, you guessed it, rub a little more.

Experimentation is key in finding what process works well for you and what you are trying to accomplish. Good luck!

I'm looking at going with Angelus black. I'm waiting on them to get back with me so I can figure out what the difference is between their 4 different blacks.

I've read you don't have to buff the Angelus as much compared to the Fiebing's. Some say they weren't able to quit buffing the Fiebing's. Since this is my first time dying. I figured Angelus would be better since it appears to be easier to work with.

And I plan on getting the Angelus Matte and Satin sealer to do test pieces on to figure which one I like better. As I've read their Satin can look gloss. I guess it depends on how thick you put it on.

Any tips on dying the flesh side of the leather? I'm assuming that is the same as doing the grain side where you buff it then apply the sealer? I would like to clean up all the frays on the bottom and side of the leather.

I'm making some large armbands that will tie up down the inside of the forearm via grommets. Should I rub anything on the leather after I dye it to soften it up so it would bend around the arm better? The leather seems pretty stiff as it is, and I figure it would get stiffer after dying it.

[terrymac]

It is my experience that leather will become more supple after using an oil based dye. You are actually putting oil back into the leather. Have never used Angelus, so I can't tell you about it. If you want to do the edges right, go to the "How do I Do It" section of the Forum and find a thread by Hidepounder (Bob Park) on doing edges. If you will follow his advice, I'll guarantee they will come out professional.

Terry

[RobDude30]

I'm looking at going with Angelus black. I'm waiting on them to get back with me so I can figure out what the difference is between their 4 different blacks.

I've read you don't have to buff the Angelus as much compared to the Fiebing's. Some say they weren't able to quit buffing the Fiebing's. Since this is my first time dying. I figured Angelus would be better since it appears to be easier to work with.

And I plan on getting the Angelus Matte and Satin sealer to do test pieces on to figure which one I like better. As I've read their Satin can look gloss. I guess it depends on how thick you put it on.

Any tips on dying the flesh side of the leather? I'm assuming that is the same as doing the grain side where you buff it then apply the sealer? I would like to clean up all the frays on the bottom and side of the leather.

I'm making some large armbands that will tie up down the inside of the forearm via grommets. Should I rub anything on the leather after I dye it to soften it up so it would bend around the arm better? The leather seems pretty stiff as it is, and I figure it would get stiffer after dying it.

You dye the flesh side just the same. You can use some gum trag and something to burnish with to smooth it out some. Take the advice form terrymac and follow Hidepounder's sticky for the edges. Add some neatsfoot oil to the leather to help soften it.

[jasonsmith]

You dye the flesh side just the same. You can use some gum trag and something to burnish with to smooth it out some. Take the advice form terrymac and follow Hidepounder's sticky for the edges. Add some neatsfoot oil to the leather to help soften it.

I think I'm gonna leave the edges alone. Just dye it. As I don't want shinny edges like the look of the edges in that thread. The only thing I was looking at was getting rid of any fray. But I'd much rather leave it like it is than have a shinny edge.

I'm probably looking at using that Preval or a spray gun to dye it. I think that would be the easiest and not worry so much about streaks. Though I saw in my Tandy book, they recommended spraying dye for solid colors but said that it didn't apply for black. I don't know if they feel spraying black wouldn't turn out good, or if they feel you can get by with rubbing it in.

[jasonsmith]

It is my experience that leather will become more supple after using an oil based dye. You are actually putting oil back into the leather. Have never used Angelus, so I can't tell you about it. If you want to do the edges right, go to the "How do I Do It" section of the Forum and find a thread by Hidepounder (Bob Park) on doing edges. If you will follow his advice, I'll guarantee they will come out professional.

Terry

Actually, I'm thinking about going with Angelus black instead of the Fiebing's Pro Oil Black. As I've read you don't have to buff the Angelus much compared to the Fiebings. Since I'm new to this, I figure the Angelus would be easier to work with. I'm just waiting on them to get back with me to tell me what the differences are in their 4 different blacks.

[RobDude30]

Black is easy enough to get even color without spraying. You may be right on the Angelus. I think I'll order a bottle next time I run out. Let us know how it works.

[jasonsmith]

Black is easy enough to get even color without spraying. You may be right on the Angelus. I think I'll order a bottle next time I run out. Let us know how it works.

Yeah, I've thought that black would be easier to get even vs. another color. The other thing is you'd probably loose some dye every time you spray since you have to pour it in the large container of spray gun. I think that was one advantage of the Preval since you could keep it in the small jar with a lid and not waste any.

Angelus is sending me some samples including their prep and deglazer. So, I'll dye some test pieces by hand to see what that does before I pick up a sprayer. They've got 4 different blacks.

I've got some Fiebings black edge dye applicator that I brushed on the backside of some leather. And that seemed to work with no buffing with regards to dying the flesh side. Only thing is it is kinda shiny, which I'd like more of a matte finish for the back. I'll try the Angelus and matte sealer on the back and see what that does. Though the Fiebings stuff was easy to use as there was no buffing and it is waterproof so you don't have to worry about rub off on your arm with regards to dying the back.

[Ellen]

Aren't Angelicus dyes acrylic? Fiebing's Pro-Oil is spirit based, and used for everything leather with very good results. It's not shiny by itself, if you use Satin Shene as a finish it will be not glossy.

When dyeing a flesh side, go along the fibers, not against them. Or spray. Flesh side better to seal with Resolene.

Bag Cote is much weaker sealer than acrylics (Resolene, Angelicus, Supe[ and Satin Shene). If you have it, finish a scrap pieces of leather with Bag Cote and, another, with any acrylic finish. Let it dry. Then drop or spay some water on them and see results by yourself.

Edge should be well sealed anyway, or it will stain the wearer. Gum Tracagant with wet slicking but without burnishing allows you to keep edge smooth but not glossy. Finish it with acrylic anyway.

[jasonsmith]

Aren't Angelicus dyes acrylic? Fiebing's Pro-Oil is spirit based, and used for everything leather with very good results. It's not shiny by itself, if you use Satin Shene as a finish it will be not glossy.

When dyeing a flesh side, go along the fibers, not against them. Or spray. Flesh side better to seal with Resolene.

Bag Cote is much weaker sealer than acrylics (Resolene, Angelicus, Supe[ and Satin Shene). If you have it, finish a scrap pieces of leather with Bag Cote and, another, with any acrylic finish. Let it dry. Then drop or spay some water on them and see results by yourself.

Edge should be well sealed anyway, or it will stain the wearer. Gum Tracagant with wet slicking but without burnishing allows you to keep edge smooth but not glossy. Finish it with acrylic anyway.

What Satin Shene do you refer to? I tried the Angelus Matte and Satin, and it looks the same. Shiny. But I'm probably not going to worry about it.

I plan on spraying the dye on both sides with a Preval. How do you buff the flesh side to remove excess dye?

And what do you think of spraying the sealer on with the Preval?

I figured out what I messed up on when putting the sealer on. I rubbed it on with a sponge, and kept rubbing to try and remove the excess sealer. But that made it look like crap. I did another test piece where I rubbed the sealer on, but didn't try to rub it off. And that came out fine.

I noticed the Fiebings USMC black looks like it is a deeper black. Maybe it penetrated better than the Angelus. I plan on getting some Fiebings Pro Oil black to test that out.

Do you use any dye prep? Was thinking of getting either Feibings dye prep or deglazer. I've got the single shoulder tooling piece of leather from tandy. On my test dye pieces. I just got the leather wet, and soaked it with dye.

[jasonsmith]

I'm going with Feibings Pro Oil Black for my dye. Anyone spray the acrylic sealer on? That stuff is real easy to mess up when you apply it with a sponge. So, I'm gonna look at spraying it on. I've got a Preval. And have a small spray bottle that sprays a mist. I've read of people cutting the acrylic sealer 50/50 with water to cut down on the shine.

[serendipitydesigns]

Hello everyone!

Quick question along the lines of this topic- I am loving using Feibings oil dye; made a dark brown veg-tan bracelet and sealed with "Tan Kote", just out of habit. The bracelet got rained on, and to my dismay this made some very strange, warped, darker spots in the leather. The TanKote didnt seem to be a protective finish at all?! Should I stick with using an acrylic based finish over the oil dyes?

Thanks in advance for any opinions & help :D

Edited January 18, 2011 by serendipitydesigns

[jasonsmith]

Hello everyone!

Quick question along the lines of this topic- I am loving using Feibings oil dye; made a dark brown veg-tan bracelet and sealed with "Tan Kote", just out of habit. The bracelet got rained on, and to my dismay this made some very strange, warped, darker spots in the leather. The TanKote didnt seem to be a protective finish at all?! Should I stick with using an acrylic based finish over the oil dyes?

Thanks in advance for any opinions & help :D

One bad thing about the acrylic sealers is they are very shiny. I was thinking of trying Bag Kote, but if it doesn't seal well like you experienced with the "Tan Kote". Then I guess acrylic is the best option.

The hard part is it is hard to get the acrylic to have a nice even finish. It seems like the Eco Flo sealers takes too long to dry. So, it leaves rings. So far, it seems the Angelus acrylic sealers tend to be more even. The Fiebing's Resolene is way too shiny to use.

[Leather Bum]

I don't know if it is the leather I've used, the dye, or what, but I seem to have noticed that if I dip-dye Fiebing's Oil Dye (that is, submerge the leather in the dye) and remove the excess right away, there is much less dye rub-off when dry. . . Has anyone else noticed similar results?

Anyway, it's just a thought that comes to mind when I see recommendations to apply dye with a dauber or such because it seems frustratingly impossible to remove the excess dye-stuffs that remain on the surface (ending up rubbing forever like RobDude referenced). . .

And on the same note about dipping, you might try Fiebing's Leather Sheen for a not-too-shiny finish (IMHO). I once got an interesting result after dipping an item in Leather Sheen to finish it. To be accurate, I would have to mention that I first rubbed gum tragacanth all over the piece in an attempt to even out the dye coverage after wetting the leather for forming and then letting it dry; I do not know how or if this affected the later application of Leather Sheen. In the end, I would have to say I kind of liked the result anyway. . .

(Note: This was just a prototype holster, and as such there are definite flaws throughout. . . such as the less-than-desirable stitch groove depth [worse on the backside].)

[jasonsmith]

I don't know if it is the leather I've used, the dye, or what, but I seem to have noticed that if I dip-dye Fiebing's Oil Dye (that is, submerge the leather in the dye) and remove the excess right away, there is much less dye rub-off when dry. . . Has anyone else noticed similar results?

Anyway, it's just a thought that comes to mind when I see recommendations to apply dye with a dauber or such because it seems frustratingly impossible to remove the excess dye-stuffs that remain on the surface (ending up rubbing forever like RobDude referenced). . .

And on the same note about dipping, you might try Fiebing's Leather Sheen for a not-too-shiny finish (IMHO). I once got an interesting result after dipping an item in Leather Sheen to finish it. To be accurate, I would have to mention that I first rubbed gum tragacanth all over the piece in an attempt to even out the dye coverage after wetting the leather for forming and then letting it dry; I do not know how or if this affected the later application of Leather Sheen. In the end, I would have to say I kind of liked the result anyway. . .

(Note: This was just a prototype holster, and as such there are definite flaws throughout. . . such as the less-than-desirable stitch groove depth [worse on the backside].)

I've brushed the Pro Oil dye on the leather with a sponge brush and wool dauber. And have had no problems with removing the excess dye. Actually the Pro Oil hardly needs any rubbing compared to the regular Fiebing's dye and Angelus dyes. The cool thing about the Pro Oil is when you brush the dye on, you can see it absorb into the leather almost immediately. I put on two coats back to back as the dye absorbs into the leather so well with the Pro Oil.

The Leather Sheen has a spray bottle and brush on. I may could try both. But last time I sprayed acrylic sealer with a small spray bottle, it didn't work out too well. The Leather Sheen is acrylic. So, I wonder what the difference is between the Fiebings Leather Sheen and Fiebings Resolene.