Help With Nose Button

[Aggiebraider]

Howdy Everyone,

So with the weather colder I have actually found some time to get some braiding done, and have been trying to finish a noseband for a tiedown for a Christmas present. Well as the title says, I am having serious issues with the nose button. Attached are photos, please take a look and see if you can give me some advice. I had everything laid out really well, and had troubles when I started crowning the strands over the ring knots at each end. I think the Spanish Ring knots I used are too small. What do yall use for the ends? The first picture I am pretty happy with the spacing, but as you go towards the right and the third picture, you can see there is too much space out toward the end. How do you determine how many parts you need to do for a nose button? I made this one 8", so its a little smaller than most. Any help and advice on this is greatly appreciated. I think I have a way in my head to fix to spacing issue, but the ends popping off made me really frustrated.

Thanks and happy holidays,

CW

[miguelm]

hello,you need cover the spanish ring. But you have to do the 2 pass spanish ring knot - not flat-

Miguel Marcos.

http://www.secretosdelcuero.blogspot.com

[Aggiebraider]

Not to be argumentative Miguel, bud I did do a 2 pass Spanish RIng knot. I think it looks so small and flat, because it is lol I used 1/8" lace for it and think I should have used something larger.

Thanks though,

CW

[miguelm]

i used normally 1/70 for my lace. You have to tighten the knot with the fid. So I learned of Gail hought. you can see in the art of braiding bosal I

http://www.secretosdelcuero.blogspot.com

[miguelm]

sorry, I was wrong to go mm to inch, I use 1oz X 3/64 inch for my lace.

http://www.secretosdelcuero.blogspot.com

[roo4u]

i think you just need a bit bigger of a difference at the end for the strands to lock around....i havent done very many but i usually use a piece of string tied there to keep the strands from slipping off of the end before its finished. i think one of the pinned tutorials has some excellent info on building up the nose and the ends for the button.

take a look at allan tutorial

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=4067

[miguelm]

Gail Hought very well explained step by step in his two book bosal I and bosal II. 6 and 8 strings, and how to add color,.

Miguel

http://www.secretosdelcuero.blogspot.com

[roo4u]

oops i meant Alans' tutorial.

yes gail explains it very well in her book but if aggie is going to get it done for christmas he probably needs to know now. i think the pictures that Alan posted in his tutorial explain it very well. he is a very good braider and has spent time learning from the likes of nate wald.

[miguelm]

you have to tighten the sides of the ring knot with the fid , in this way you give volume to the knot.

know 5 ways to make one a nosse b..., one of my favorites is to make the half with a drawing and the other with another. That hurts me very difficult to teach because I speak spanish.

Also too many Argentine knots with different aplication...

greetings

http://www.secretosdelcuero.blogspot.com

[roo4u]

miguel- yes i know what you mean...i use smooth jawed pliers to shape the rings knots i use as foundations for other knots i have done a couple of bosals with knots under the ends of the nose button but i really like the way alans bosals look and the fact that you get a consistent diameter at center and ends with the leather collars instead of knots.

[rgerbitz]

I had a similar problem the other day and ended up doing it over. I tie a one string fondation for my nose buttons and decided that on this one I had laid the fondation in too tight and didn't do a good job on the ends when laying stings in. So that as I added the interweave it sucked everything in off the ends. I have only been able to fix knots on very few occasions. I generally have to redo in a situation that you have.

Rob

[Aggiebraider]

Thanks guys,

I was already planning on redoing this when I posted it, just havent had time to take it all off. I already have Gail's books, have read Alan's tutorial, and this was a problem I hadnt seen discussed anywhere, but had an idea as to what the problem was. Roo, I agree I think I just need to use a larger foundation knot or a piece of leather like Alan uses.

Hope everyone is having a fun Christmas,

CW

[roo4u]

ya i think something with a little more shoulder to it, also if you used the spiral method of starting then maybe an extra wrap. when i get my strings down to the knot i go past it then tie my strands down with a single strand of string and then do my turnbacks so that they cant pull back over the knot while im working on getting the knots foundation braiding done. when your braid is on decent you can just cut the string and pull it out and any little bit extra can be tightened in when finishing the knot. good luck

[miguelm]

i also usually use the spiral method but whit 16 strings .I Did some one with 20 strings but was very tight.

More strings more possibilities.

[Bevan]

Gday Calvin

its good to see you have posted some pics

I think what the rest have said is right , you need to have a better build up on you foundation knot so ya strings have something to hang onto ,' I also use a string to keep them there untill i have done the turn !!! IN your pics i notice you have worked all your strings to the middle "center virtical line " I work mine along the horizontal line and i keep an eye on keeping them straight by looking down this line !!

I know it is very hard not to have a quick look at what the noise button might look like when finished at this stage !! but as soon as we bend it around the lace will move of the knot a tad because it has room to move , !!! because only half the knot is done !!when you finish all the knot and if your lace is the right size it will hold its own and cant move , if your lace is too wide you will have an air pocket underneth and it will still move ,

pm me if you still have hassels and hopefully we can sort it

Cheers

Bevan

[Aggiebraider]

Thanks Bevan,

I think part of the problem was the facet that I took the string off too soon. I was planning on ending the strands on the horizontal line rather than the vertical like you said in order to eliminate any bulges in the center. As this is the first nose button I have done, Im not upset that I had to take it off and start over, just happy for the ability to understand how to fix it.

Thanks all for the advice,

CW

[Alan Bell]

Hey CW, if you are still having this problem then i think that no matter the size of the ring knot or collar you need to braid PAST the end 2 passes so that when you do the interweave and the knot tightens itself up it does not draw itself up off the ring knot! Nate is using a leather foundation now instead of the floral tape. I use either or but the end result should be the same you want the symmetry of the ends the same as the middle. Even with ring knots you would want to Braid them big enough to match the size of the middle of the noseband unless it is a straight nose band!

Hope this helps!

Alan

[Aggiebraider]

Hey Alan,

Thanks for the help, I figured after I tried it the first time that I should match the width of the ring knots with the width of the middle. I tried this time by stacking two 3 pass ring knots on top of each other and i think it will work better. I dont have any leather handy to just make a ring with it and skive the ends to make it smooth and round. Im trying to get motivated enough this evening to start it over. We will see how it turns out tonight I might post more pics tomorrow.

Have a good one,

CW

[roo4u]

alan...do you have any pix of using a leather foundation? or could you describe it im curious about what is involved in that type of foundation.