Expectations

[tg lucas]

I just finished reading every topic on this forum and I keep seeing a trend... one product versus another and how much Eco Flow products are shunned. Each product has a purpose and a need. Focus on how your project is going to be used and work accordingly whether it is carving, coloring or finishing.

You know guys, I think something is being missed here, one of the reasons we love leather is it is one of the few mediums that we artists can work with that was part of a living thing. That is part of the allure of leather, it ages, fades and changes with time and for me that is why I love it. When it leaves our hands it will start to change and for me...get better. Yes color will fade, spots and streaking will appear, it is not meant to be new looking forever and I personally love the "vintage look" and so do millions of people because they pay top dollar for that aged and distressed look. I personally have seen riders buy a brand new leather jacket and drag it around the parking lot because they would not want to be seen as noob rider, crazy but true.

I have spent decades creating brands for products that most of you use everyday in your home and the bottom line is this.... manage your clients expectations and you will be successful. Leather is the one medium that gets better with age, develops more charm and history with every passing day. Celebrate that aspect with your clients. So yes, color will fade, leather will darken or lighten or become scuffed. If your clients do not want or cant live with that, tell them to buy plastic.

[Ferg]

I just finished reading every topic on this forum and I keep seeing a trend... one product versus another and how much Eco Flow products are shunned. Each product has a purpose and a need. Focus on how your project is going to be used and work accordingly whether it is carving, coloring or finishing.

You know guys, I think something is being missed here, one of the reasons we love leather is it is one of the few mediums that we artists can work with that was part of a living thing. That is part of the allure of leather, it ages, fades and changes with time and for me that is why I love it. When it leaves our hands it will start to change and for me...get better. Yes color will fade, spots and streaking will appear, it is not meant to be new looking forever and I personally love the "vintage look" and so do millions of people because they pay top dollar for that aged and distressed look. I personally have seen riders buy a brand new leather jacket and drag it around the parking lot because they would not want to be seen as noob rider, crazy but true.

I have spent decades creating brands for products that most of you use everyday in your home and the bottom line is this.... manage your clients expectations and you will be successful. Leather is the one medium that gets better with age, develops more charm and history with every passing day. Celebrate that aspect with your clients. So yes, color will fade, leather will darken or lighten or become scuffed. If your clients do not want or cant live with that, tell them to buy plastic.

I think you have missed a point in your perusing the forum. Everyone in the leather business has preferences. It may be dyes, paint, whatever, that doesn't mean we are bashing a certain product, only that we might prefer one over the other. A lot of us old fashioned leather people prefer solvent based dyes. That doesn't mean that we think the "Eco" products should go away.

Read the forum again and absorb the mountain of information available here.

BTW: Welcome to the forum

ferg

[DepME]

Coming from a noob...

I use Eco products and have been happy with them. Why? Because that is what I started with and I haven't had a problem (except for my noob inexperience issues) with them. I think '50 years leather' hit the nail on the head. It's a question of preferences. It's like when I use to paint show cars. I used product X because that's what my instructor used, so that's what he taught. Later, I got caught up in the 'product Y is so much better' claim and that only caused me worry and time lost on learning a new product. In the end, I went back to product X. The end result being, both paints systems produced a great looking end results. Personally, I think leatherwork is probably the same.

I laughed when I read your comment about dragging leather around to make it look old. 40 years ago, I did the same thing with coveralls and welding leathers, when I worked in the shipyards.

[Tina]

I just finished reading every topic on this forum and I keep seeing a trend... one product versus another and how much Eco Flow products are shunned. Each product has a purpose and a need. Focus on how your project is going to be used and work accordingly whether it is carving, coloring or finishing.

I can not help but feeling a wee bit offended by this...As a member I tressure the opportunity to discuss anything and vent the difference between product A verus B, to like or dislike. Personally I don't feel I am i a need of Mr Teacher telling me I can not "shun" a product X if I don't like it . I have tried and tested Eco flow, and I would not touch it with a plyer in the future, and it is my prerogative to think and say so, we might have different oppinions in the forum about the product in question but that's a good thing. Only my 2 cents//Tina

[tg lucas]

Ok ok maybe I need to back up here and better explain my reasoning for making this post.

First of all, everyone needs to understand that this post was in no way was meant to be a reprimand, correction or be offensive to anyone. I have visited this site for many months and have the highest esteem for the craftsman and artists who use and contribute to this site, I personally feel that it represents a collection of the most experienced and talented leather artists in the world as well as the future of the leather arts. The mission of the site to further and expand the art of leather work is above and beyond what most sites could hope to endeavor, that I believe, is due primarily to it's participants. Not only does the group represent one of the leather medium's greatest resources but it also functions as the most effective ambassadors of a craft that predates most civilizations. Every contributor, whether a beginner or veteran, has the ability to expand the exposure, participation and understanding of a medium that continues to grow in demand and popularity over the centuries. In times past, the knowledge and techniques gathered here were a closely guarded secret and the only way to gain access was to be born into or buy acceptance of the guilds, this site and it's contributors have changed centuries of behavior that concealed a treasury of knowledge for all but a chosen few, for that I applaud all of you.

Now with my true position being established, the reason I began this post came down to a chance encounter with a man a few weeks ago. I came across an ad on craigslist from a man looking for tooling leather. As I always have scraps left over from projects and curiosity about his ad, I responded. Turns out he had just had several back surgeries and was going to be confined for a few months as he recovered. He said that he was looking for a hobby he could do in his wheel chair and that his wife had bought him a set of leather tools at a garage sale but he had no idea how to use them or where to get the leather to try them out. After several emails and photos sent back back and forth, it turns out that he had an old "Lucky 7" set. I told him of their history as well as I knew it and that he had everything he needed to be be able to carve western floral designs minus a mallet, a marble slab and the leather. I gave him my list of suppliers and my recommended list of supplies, informing him of what I considered to be the most needed and entry level pricing and a promise to be be any help I could in his new found interest. As most of you already know, you get a special feeling from sharing your knowledge with others and some of the most endearing friendships we develop come from that act of sharing. So after a few days I had to make an order with HideCrafters and called Ron up and in the course of conversation, I asked him if a new customer I had referred had placed an order yet. No, he had not heard from him yet. Concerned that this man's recovery had a setback I called him up and asked him if he was ready to get started pounding hides, but something in his voice made me aware that there was some issue. I asked what was going on as he had been so excited a few days before to get started. "Travous" he said, "I really hate to admit this but because of my injury, being off work so long and all of the doctor's bills, I just don't have the money to spend on something just to keep me occupied while I get better". "When I am healed up and get back to work, we can start this but right now I just can't spend the money".

It hit me like a ton of bricks, dozens of memories flooded my mind over how many times as struggling artist I longed for a better set of brushes, expensive paints, classes, hardware and software to get me to the next step, all the things that might help me to be a better artist and provide more for my family. I knew what it was like to have the desire to create but not the means and then I remembered all the gracious gifts and the many benefactors that enabled me to not only achieve my goals but taught me about the gift of sharing.

"Jason, I have a solution. I have a lot of scrap, some duplicate tools, it happens when you don't keep an updated tool list, an extra mallet and some dye supplies and we are going get you started". I could hear the tremble in his voice as he asked why I would do this for him, for someone I barely knew? "Jason, it was done for me and I am just honoring those who did it for me by paying it forward". I could hear the smile over the phone as I grabbed an old Tandy box and filled it with all the stuff I thought he could use and got his address and told him that it would be there by FedEx tomorrow. I told him to call me when it arrived and said goodbye. I have to tell you that I felt inside like Christmas had come early for me. Jason lived about 60 miles from me and literally out in the boonies between Fayetteville and Ft. Smith, but I had one more thing to knock off my list for him to be able to start. I called a kitchen counter supplier in Fayetteville that I did some advertising for and asked him if he had any marble samples or scrap around 12x12 size. He said sure tons of it, how much do you want of it. I said I just need one piece and told him what I wanted it for. Well he said come get it and it's on the house, I tried to pay him for it but he would not hear of it. So next I called my brother in law, asked him if he was planning to hunt in the White Rock area any this week? Well it turns out he was going the next day and asked if would he do me a big favor. I asked him to come by my house before he left and pick up something to be delivered after his hunt was over and to just tell the guy it was from Travous and he will understand. Brett arrived at 3am and just was a little confused when I handed him a slab of polished black marble and told him where to deliver it and gave him a printed map of the directions. I told him to him to just drop it off and say "Merry Christmas from Travous" if Jason asked. Well everything went perfect, box came, slab delivered and we talked about everything until the batteries on the cell phone were about to die. As we were about to say goodbye I said I have one more thing....check out this website, it will cover everything about what we talked about and tons more because you will never remember all we have talked about. It was LeatherWorker.net I sent him to.

After a few days and several emails, I noticed a change in the excitement of Jason... something subdued but tangible. He had been reading in this particular forum and said something he read had bothered him. He said that he knew he was so new to this and knew that he did not have all the really great tools and supplies that they talked about on the forums. He said he was so grateful for what he did have but got the impression that unless he eventually got the stuff everyone was talking about his work would never be as good as the work he was seeing in the galleries and it was kind of depressing. He said that he felt that all of his tools and supplies that he was so proud of, it seemed most on the forums looked down on as inferior and not capable of producing good work. That concerned me and I did not understand where he got the impression from. I explained to him that it is not the tools that you use, that make good work but the skill with which they were used. I told him that a skilled artist can produced incredible work with some nails and a stick, some old walnut husks and lots of practice and that the father of the American leather craft revival, Al Stohlman started out with not much more than that. I explained that each artist has their own style and opinions of what works best and it completely depends on the use of what they created. What works for one may not work for others for a variety of reasons like leather quality, availability and last but not least budget. The opinions and preferences of the contributors are more like guidelines not rules and most have very good reasons for the way they believe and as you gain experience you find much value in them.

So after getting him back to feeling positive at his current place in his own personal development, I decided to see for myself what caused him so much doubt. What I wrote was my gut reaction to much of it I read myself and I myself should have been more tempered. It was early in the morning and should have waited to be more clear and for that I apologize.

However, it makes me wonder if the contributors know just how much weight their opinions carry? Even if you are a complete beginner or seasoned veteran, you are still a part of the vanguards of this art form and many readers, whether they should are not, regard your words as the secrets of illumination of what was once just dark shadows to them. Even though, it may seem to you that it is just your own opinions and preferences, to many others it like gold and very important in their own value and development. Be aware that you may be influencing someone at an earlier stage of skill, knowledge and development than yourself and though it may seem tedious and time consuming try to explain why you feel your opinions and preferences are validated so that they will learn your hard earned experience. Who knows, you may actually teaching the next Al, Robb, George, Jim or Paul and they will remember you and your words and use it to create and pass on down to the next generation.

Edited January 15, 2011 by tg lucas

[Tina]

Now the first post makes a whole lot more sense and I love your story

So lets say...There is no right or wrong (products) just the way someone loves to work/use cetains things more than others and what makes them happy, we all got to start somewhere

Wish you a wonderful weekend//Tina