Sewing Machine Selection Question

[rxjohn]

Hi,

Short time lurker and a first post.

I've been searching the forum and read intensely to find a suitable sewing machine for a small project. Even though I read many posts that were mostly related to my question, I felt I needed to ask more direct questions at the dismay of longtime forum members who have to constantly answer the same questions from different newbies.

I'm trying to make a couple of stachels...computer bags that can double as a camera bag. Been going over to a local Tandy shop and also bought a bunch of leather tools on the ebay. I do know I'll be using 4 to 5 oz leather to make my bags and the thickest area that needs to be sewed will have about 4 layers of it. If I do the math right, 4 layers of 4 to 5oz leather should be around 1/4"+ but I would like to be able to sew up to 1/2" or so.

The plan is to ruin large amounts of perfectly good leather and hardwares until I can proudly post a picture of the bags on here...then I'll force my kids to carry my handmade bags to college and the rest of their lives.

Here is a sample picture of the thickest area that needs to be sewen.

So, could you throw out some names and models of capable used/new sewing machines that I can pick up for $500 to $1000? I would prefer a flatbed model over cylinder arm as I don't think I can keep a straight sewing line over a cylinder arm. My mother in law who's a retired seamstress thinks I'm crazy but I plan to make my wife, who's pretty good with a sewing machine, do the bulk of the work once a needle penetrates my finger or two.

Thanks!

[Art]

High lift Pfaff 145/545/1245, but you are at the absolute limit thickness wise. You will hate yourself for getting a flat bed for sewing bags. Spend a little more and get a machine for that job.

Art

Hi,

Short time lurker and a first post.

I've been searching the forum and read intensely to find a suitable sewing machine for a small project. Even though I read many posts that were mostly related to my question, I felt I needed to ask more direct questions at the dismay of longtime forum members who have to constantly answer the same questions from different newbies.

I'm trying to make a couple of stachels...computer bags that can double as a camera bag. Been going over to a local Tandy shop and also bought a bunch of leather tools on the ebay. I do know I'll be using 4 to 5 oz leather to make my bags and the thickest area that needs to be sewed will have about 4 layers of it. If I do the math right, 4 layers of 4 to 5oz leather should be around 1/4"+ but I would like to be able to sew up to 1/2" or so.

The plan is to ruin large amounts of perfectly good leather and hardwares until I can proudly post a picture of the bags on here...then I'll force my kids to carry my handmade bags to college and the rest of their lives.

Here is a sample picture of the thickest area that needs to be sewen.

So, could you throw out some names and models of capable used/new sewing machines that I can pick up for $500 to $1000? I would prefer a flatbed model over cylinder arm as I don't think I can keep a straight sewing line over a cylinder arm. My mother in law who's a retired seamstress thinks I'm crazy but I plan to make my wife, who's pretty good with a sewing machine, do the bulk of the work once a needle penetrates my finger or two.

Thanks!

[Luke Hatley]

as Art said....."you'll hate your self if you dont get a Cylinder Arm machine"

and you need to get some more $$$$$.

Been there and done that.......

P S

then again lot of the heavy duty machines have an flat bed table as an accessory.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Luke Hatley

[rxjohn]

High lift Pfaff 145/545/1245, but you are at the absolute limit thickness wise. You will hate yourself for getting a flat bed for sewing bags. Spend a little more and get a machine for that job.

Art

Alright. I'm easily convinced. Recommend me a cylinder arm sewing machine then. Would Consew 223 work?

Thanks!

Edited March 7, 2011 by rxjohn

[rxjohn]

Ok,

I found new Techsew GA5-1 head only for $575 + $99 shipping. Where can I find the motor and table for this and how much do they cost?

Will Techsew GA5-1 do the job?

Thanks,

[dirtclod]

I just looked at that machine and it said 7/16 max.

[Art]

For what you want to do, you really need a short arm (long arm if you can afford it) 441 clone. Cobra class 3 (or 4), there are some pictures and specs here. I would make a decision shortly as the prices on most sewing machines will be going up soon.

Art

Alright. I'm easily convinced. Recommend me a cylinder arm sewing machine then. Would Consew 223 work?

Thanks!

[rxjohn]

For what you want to do, you really need a short arm (long arm if you can afford it) 441 clone. Cobra class 3 (or 4), there are some pictures and specs here. I would make a decision shortly as the prices on most sewing machines will be going up soon.

Art

Thanks Art.

It seems like Techsew GA5-1 is very capable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDizQ60OaiQ&feature=player_embedded#at=72

So, brand new GA5-1 with motor and table shipped to my house for $823. And since it's not from Raphael (Canadian co), there's no tariff involved and much less shipping ($1,349 + shipping + Tariff).... would you think it's a farily good price?

[Art]

OK, that seems to be a good price if that's what you want. When sewing multiple layers of anything, I prefer needle feed, not sure the GA5-1 has that, or reverse either. I think the reverse model is GA5-1R. But the important thing here is servo motor, speed reducer, and smooth feet, might have to give up the smooth feet if you are just doing drop feed. I think the spec on that machine is 1/5 inch lift, which will eventually give you worries. The ideal machine for you should be needle feed, walking foot, smooth feet, and 3/4" capacity with a servo and speed reducer. I am looking at what you want to sew, and it looks like the GA5 is not enough machine. I could be wrong.

Art

Thanks Art.

It seems like Techsew GA5-1 is very capable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDizQ60OaiQ&feature=player_embedded#at=72

So, brand new GA5-1 with motor and table shipped to my house for $823. And since it's not from Raphael (Canadian co), there's no tariff involved and much less shipping ($1,349 + shipping + Tariff).... would you think it's a farily good price?

[Techsew Ron]

Just to clarify a few things:

1) The GA5-1 machine you found for $575 (I'm assuming on ebay) is NOT a Techsew sewing machine and does not include reverse, speed reducer, servo motor, u-table, option for smooth feet, warranty, tech support etc.. We are the only ones who sell the Techsew GA5-1R which includes reverse, SmartServo motor, speed reducer, u-table, option for smooth feet, full selection of accessories, warranty, tech support and more.

2) There are no additional tariffs or taxes on top of our shipping prices (unless you live in Canada where there is GST).

3) We've been contacted by people who have purchased the knockoff GA5-1 on ebay and were very disappointed, often looking for parts, motor, feet, needles etc. The servo motor and speed reducer are important components of this machine and are necessary in order to get the machine working to its proper sewing capacity and slow speed.

I recommend that no matter who you purchase from, make sure it's from an established sewing machine dealer who can offer parts, warranty & post-sale support for whichever machine you decide on. An established dealer will also make all the necessary adjustments and inspections prior to shipping it out to make sure it works the way it should.

You can contact any of the sewing machine dealers who sponsor leatherworker.net for more information, Art and Wiz also offer great advice.

Edited March 14, 2011 by Ronnie

[Art]

I guess I should, again, say a few things about sewing machines. Especially leather sewing machines.

A leather sewing machine for a leathercrafter needs to be set up to run slow. Fast is for production where you do one function repetitively. Things need to be smooth on a sewing machine for leather, and the machine needs to be set up to run with minimal pressure on the feet; this is why you will hear most of us recommend needle feed. The machine must be set up with the correct size needle for leather not fabric.

These might seem like small things, but as shipped from China, the machine head as shipped in the box is not set up for any of this. The dealers of leather sewing machines take at least four hours of competent mechanics time, and several custom made parts, to set these machines up to sew leather. That's $200 in labor and $200 in parts that are addons to the price that nobody ever mentions.

When you get a machine on eBay, the seller is competing on price, that is all they have to sell. Don't even think of asking them a post sale question, they don't for the most part have a clue. There are also quite a few barking dogs out there in the sewing machine world, especially from China. It is just a commodity for them; anyone can convert excess manufacturing capacity into sewing machines; buy the parts, put them together, and most of them will run in some fashion or another. If you see a cheap price on eBay, you could be getting something that will run in some fashion or another. When you are sewing leather, all this can add-up in the wrong direction causing a sloppy stitch line or missed stitches on a good day. A good mechanic can correct some of these machines, but it takes a lot of time and is expensive.

What I am saying is, Buy your machines from a brick and mortar dealer who does leather sewing machines as a major part of their business. They have to buy machines from good factories, or they will develop a bad reputation in the very small community of leatherworkers. On eBay, they just don't care, they can change their eBay name whenever they want. That being said, there are some good sellers on eBay, but they are usually Brick and Mortar operations.

If something is too good to be true, well it IS too good to be true.

Art

[Russ]

Of all the things written on the entire Leatherworker.net website, Ronnie has hit the two truths when it comes to sewing machines. (1) The support is more important than the exact model and (2) listen to Art and Wiz.

I recommend that no matter who you purchase from, make sure it's from an established sewing machine dealer who can offer parts, warranty & post-sale support for whichever machine you decide on. An established dealer will also make all the necessary adjustments and inspections prior to shipping it out to make sure it works the way it should.

You can contact any of the sewing machine dealers who sponsor leatherworker.net for more information, Art and Wiz also offer great advice.

[spur2009]

For a beginner or for that matter old pros, I recommend the Tipton Boss. This machine is easy to operate, is hand powered and will sew almost anything you

might want to do on it. Tipman also has an excellent support staff that most always can help you rsolve problems over the phone. Good luck on whichever

machine you decide on.

[rxjohn]

Just to clarify a few things:

1) The GA5-1 machine you found for $575 (I'm assuming on ebay) is NOT a Techsew sewing machine and does not include reverse, speed reducer, servo motor, u-table, option for smooth feet, warranty, tech support etc.. We are the only ones who sell the Techsew GA5-1R which includes reverse, SmartServo motor, speed reducer, u-table, option for smooth feet, full selection of accessories, warranty, tech support and more.

I understand that. But the machine from ebay I believe is Super Star Sewing Machine GA5-1 which you labeled as Techsew GA5-1 and used to sell but the difference is that it doesn't have Reverse hence GA5-1R must be an upgraded version with Reverse. Correct me if I'm wrong.

SuperStar GA5-1

Edited March 19, 2011 by rxjohn

[dirtclod]

If i was you i'd just buy the one ebay and when it doesn't do the work sell it and get one like folks are telling you about.You asked for advice and different ones have tried to help you.

But you seem to have your heart set on the ebay machine. Cheaper isn't always a good deal in the end. One thing though what ever machine you buy you better make sure you can get some different feet for it cause the foot in the video is way to wide to do what you want to do i think. One other thing it doesn't take long to get 1/2 of material to sew through and i think that's limit on the machine you want.

Edited March 19, 2011 by dirtclod

[rxjohn]

If i was you i'd just buy the one ebay and when it doesn't do the work sell it and get one like folks are telling about.You asked for advice and different ones have tried to help you.

But you seem to have your heart set on the ebay machine. Cheaper isn't always a good deal in the end. One thing though what ever machine you buy you better make sure you can get some different feet for it cause the foot in the video is way to wide to do what you want to do i think. One other thing it doesn't take long to get 1/2 of material to sew through and i think that's limit on the machine you want.

Im not set on any machine. Im simply researching and am not discounting any advice here. I thought I sew techsew ga5-1 non R model advertised here granted it was an older post but I swear I saw that post 2 weeks ago but its no longer here. Also, I came across what seems like the original manufacturer of ga5-1 from china so im obviously curious if techsew is importing it and making some upgrades to it. If so, im curious if the upgrade is simply adding a speed reducer and a servo motor or are they doing more upgrades to the machine itself.

Every hobby I get into, I do a thorough and intrusive research about everything before I spend a couple of thousand dollars at it. Im wanting to sew 4 layers of 4oz leather which should be much less than an 1/2 inch and while techsew ga5-1 is rated to sew almost half inch, experts here are saying its not an enough machine and I would need cobra class 3 or 4. So my research continues.

[Art]

It took me over ten years to understand the Chinese sewing machine business. I still learn stuff every day. The machine you are looking at is a knockoff of a Singer probably. Look up all the Singer models and you'll find it. If it has been made by a major manufacturer, past or present, the Chinese have knocked it off. I know of two factories at least that are making the GA5-1 and GA5-1R, there are probably more. You are right that it is good to know what factories are building your machine, because two or more factories can be building something and one can be a great machine and another can be crap. Even the biggest and most prestigious factories don't make all of their machine line, they buy from other factories who most times meet their quality criteria.

Don't try to learn the Chinese sewing machine business; leave that to the brick and mortar distributors who deal with the machines every day. You can take my word for it, when all is said and done, most of them make a couple of hundred on a machine, they have labor, rent, inventory, and specialty parts that take a big chunk out of any margin they may have. If you buy from one of the dealers here, you will get a good machine. Steve, Ronnie, and Jerry advertise here and they all sell decent machines, good solid machines that will run damned near forever if properly maintained. On eBay, you buy, it comes in a box, and you are on your own.

Good Luck,

Art

Im not set on any machine. Im simply researching and am not discounting any advice here. I thought I sew techsew ga5-1 non R model advertised here granted it was an older post but I swear I saw that post 2 weeks ago but its no longer here. Also, I came across what seems like the original manufacturer of ga5-1 from china so im obviously curious if techsew is importing it and making some upgrades to it. If so, im curious if the upgrade is simply adding a speed reducer and a servo motor or are they doing more upgrades to the machine itself.

Every hobby I get into, I do a thorough and intrusive research about everything before I spend a couple of thousand dollars at it. Im wanting to sew 4 layers of 4oz leather which should be much less than an 1/2 inch and while techsew ga5-1 is rated to sew almost half inch, experts here are saying its not an enough machine and I would need cobra class 3 or 4. So my research continues.

[rxjohn]

It took me over ten years to understand the Chinese sewing machine business. I still learn stuff every day. The machine you are looking at is a knockoff of a Singer probably. Look up all the Singer models and you'll find it. If it has been made by a major manufacturer, past or present, the Chinese have knocked it off. I know of two factories at least that are making the GA5-1 and GA5-1R, there are probably more. You are right that it is good to know what factories are building your machine, because two or more factories can be building something and one can be a great machine and another can be crap. Even the biggest and most prestigious factories don't make all of their machine line, they buy from other factories who most times meet their quality criteria.

Don't try to learn the Chinese sewing machine business; leave that to the brick and mortar distributors who deal with the machines every day. You can take my word for it, when all is said and done, most of them make a couple of hundred on a machine, they have labor, rent, inventory, and specialty parts that take a big chunk out of any margin they may have. If you buy from one of the dealers here, you will get a good machine. Steve, Ronnie, and Jerry advertise here and they all sell decent machines, good solid machines that will run damned near forever if properly maintained. On eBay, you buy, it comes in a box, and you are on your own.

Good Luck,

Art

I'm not as thick headed... I went to a brick and mortar distributor this morning. They showed me 2 used machines both with 2 years warranty. One was Mitsubishi LU2-4410 with a larger motor and a bobbin and Pfaff 145.. they recommended Mitsubishi.. they were both priced at $795 for the entire set up. Neither are cylinder arm machines... what are your thoughts?

Thanks.

[Babbs]

I also have been asking alot of Questions about the different sewing machines on this forum. I received Great Advice from people that have been in this business and Know these machines.

I too, could go get a machine that would only cost me $800. and do some jobs, but .. not the thick leather that your looking to sew.

Every Brick and Mortar Store doesn't have the same service, go by the Reputation of the people that have worked with leather for years that know these machines and know who has the Service after the sale and who doesn't.

I bought a $6000. Embroidery machine from a local store and they were the nicest people I could have bought from, I bought there to support the local retailer.Did they know their machine, NO, I ended up teaching them, great for them but a long learning process for me and one which you shouldn't have to go through after investing $6000.plus tax for a machine.

T o sew what your looking to sew, you need a cylinder machine. If you believe you can get away with purchasing the $800 machine, take your bag or whatever is the thickest leather you will be looking to sew into the store and try it out and see how thick of leather this machine will sew, if it suits you, buy it.

I'm not as thick headed... I went to a brick and mortar distributor this morning. They showed me 2 used machines both with 2 years warranty. One was Mitsubishi LU2-4410 with a larger motor and a bobbin and Pfaff 145.. they recommended Mitsubishi.. they were both priced at $795 for the entire set up. Neither are cylinder arm machines... what are your thoughts?

Thanks.

[Wizcrafts]

I'm not as thick headed... I went to a brick and mortar distributor this morning. They showed me 2 used machines both with 2 years warranty. One was Mitsubishi LU2-4410 with a larger motor and a bobbin and Pfaff 145.. they recommended Mitsubishi.. they were both priced at $795 for the entire set up. Neither are cylinder arm machines... what are your thoughts?

Thanks.

I have written an extensive article about the types of sewing machines required to sew leather. It may help you reach a decision about which machine is really the best for your purposes. If the local sewing machine shop has such a machine, great! If not, we have quite a few sewing machine dealers who sell industrial machines of all types and sewing machines specifically designed and equipped to sew leather, thick or thin.

By discounting inadequate machines and narrowing your choices to those meeting your requirements, you'll save a lot of time, money and aggravation.

[rxjohn]

I have written an extensive article about the types of sewing machines required to sew leather. It may help you reach a decision about which machine is really the best for your purposes. If the local sewing machine shop has such a machine, great! If not, we have quite a few sewing machine dealers who sell industrial machines of all types and sewing machines specifically designed and equipped to sew leather, thick or thin.

By discounting inadequate machines and narrowing your choices to those meeting your requirements, you'll save a lot of time, money and aggravation.

Oh Man...Thanks Wiz!! I really appreciate it.

[Vroom]

I have written an extensive article about the types of sewing machines required to sew leather. It may help you reach a decision about which machine is really the best for your purposes. If the local sewing machine shop has such a machine, great! If not, we have quite a few sewing machine dealers who sell industrial machines of all types and sewing machines specifically designed and equipped to sew leather, thick or thin.

By discounting inadequate machines and narrowing your choices to those meeting your requirements, you'll save a lot of time, money and aggravation.

Wiz,

Where can I read your article??? I am a member of a Leather Craft Club here in Sun City, AZ. We have a Singer 29 U172A and no one seems to know enough about the machine to be able to make it work well or know what kind and thickness of leather it is capable of sewing.

Can you help???

Larry Vroom

623-594-6591

larryvroom@cox.net

[Wizcrafts]

Wiz,

Where can I read your article??? I am a member of a Leather Craft Club here in Sun City, AZ. We have a Singer 29 U172A and no one seems to know enough about the machine to be able to make it work well or know what kind and thickness of leather it is capable of sewing.

Can you help???

Larry Vroom

623-594-6591

larryvroom@cox.net

Here's my sticky article: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=25239

If the 29U172 is the same machine as my 29K172, it will sew about 1/4" of leather; maybe even 5/16" with the pressor foot at maximum lift. It can handle up to #138 thread, but goes a lot longer with #92 or #69.

[jimsaddler]

Most of the Machines mentioned are knock offs of the Singer 45K25 and the Adler 105. The job that you are showing was traditionally done on such a machine. The operators were called 45K operators and were very good in their field. Which included making School Satchels that lasted a lifetime. I'm like Art and say buy form a reputable Dealer and you won't regret it. The Ebay knock offs are usually from the low grade Chinese Makers made to price only. If a Machine is sold by one of those who appear regularly on LW. It's got to be able to stand up to the Critics or dissapear into the Junk Bin quickly.

Hey I use one as my Fancy Stitching Machine for decorating Winker Eyes, Drops and Back Saddles. Also for Pouches and the like.It is mounted on an old Singer Pedal Stand for perfect control. So nowadays the Servo Motor and Speed Reducer achieves the same control. The 441's have Compound Feeds which are not as neat. (Now Guys don't flog me for saying that but it is the truth) for the High class visible Stitching I like to achieve.

I hope this helps you.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

If i was you i'd just buy the one ebay and when it doesn't do the work sell it and get one like folks are telling you about.You asked for advice and different ones have tried to help you.

But you seem to have your heart set on the ebay machine. Cheaper isn't always a good deal in the end. One thing though what ever machine you buy you better make sure you can get some different feet for it cause the foot in the video is way to wide to do what you want to do i think. One other thing it doesn't take long to get 1/2 of material to sew through and i think that's limit on the machine you want.