Acrylic Paint And Conditioning Leather

[Newbee]

Heeeelp............I have read so much trying to find a straight answer to this question, I have confused myself! Should I condition the leather before applying acrylic paint?...or after applying acrylic paint? Should I condition leather before applying a sealer?...and/or after applying a sealer? For a Newbee who is going to use stain and acrylic paint, what would be the best procedure to stain, acrylic paint, condition and seal a project? I have learned so much from this site and really appreciate all the advice and information. Is Neat Lac a sealer or conditioner or both?

[billsreef]

Conditioners won't penetrate acrylic, so condition first Then stain, paint and seal. Neat Lac is a lacquer based finish coat.

[rawhide1]

Go light on the neat lac to start with. Or your paint wont be on your leather for long!!! It seems no matter how careful I am or how light a coat of neat lac I try and put on intialy I still lose paint or have it streak. I started using the spray on stuff from Tandy's for anything I have paint on.

Mike

[js5972]

Neat-Lac is not compatible with any acrylic. Use Saddle-Lac or Super Shene sprays.

[Haleyf]

Did you ever find a good answer to this question? I have been told so many things!

[Jax]

I've used saddle lac over acrylic & it disappeared....(the acrylic that is)

[Bob Blea]

I don't have any experience on this, but I have seen posting here from Spinner (a member here who makes incredible leather artwork) and/or others that discusses finished removing acrylic paints. I tried searching for what I remember seeing so I could post a link here, but couldn't quickly find it. From what I remember, solvent based finishes like Neat Lac or Saddle Lac could damage the acrylics. I did find one post that mentioned the spray on version of Saddle Lac didn't damage the acrylics, but I know there is more information on using acrylics and finishes, just would take some time searching.

Sorry, this wasn't as much help as I had hoped.

Bob

[Haleyf]

I'm sorry. There is some good advice in this feed. I should have been more specific about my question.

I want to know the order of operation in leather strap work.

I am trying to start a business selling custom dog collars. I want them to be quality and I seem to run into some kind of problem with every step I take.

Here is the method I have adapted to so far: (I will note some of the other problems to see if I can get some extra advice.)

1. Cut and skive the leather with super skiver- (can't really find the trick to making this an easy task)

2. Sand the edges and the raw side of leather (for comfort) with a sanding wheel on a drill press

3. Bevel the edges

4.. Punch holes, wet and stamp

5.. Dye with the color of choice - Fiebings oil based Cordovan dye, Fiebings acrylic antique medium brown stain or a zelikovits water based pigment pink dye (pink seems to have streaks where the color doesn't take no matter how many coats I add and rubs off easily)

6. Let dry for an hour or so then color the letters with sharpie for the stained collars, metallic markers or paint markers for the dyed collars(paint markers are difficult to make even and not globby and metalic markers seem to wear off a little)

7. Spray with leather sheen

8. Let dry for an hour or so then burnish the edges with glycerin and saddle soap or Quik Slick on a nylon slicker attached to the drill press. (I am not sure how long this is supposed to take but it seems like forever and I still never get glass smooth edges) - ordered a wooden burnisher made for a drill press so hopefully it will help. My other problem is that sometimes the edges seem to crack in certain spots mostly around the buckle within just a few days. I use quality herman oak leather.

9. touch up the edges with the same dye

10. condition with lexol conditioner.

11. add hardware

Ok... so where I get mixed reviews is at what time to apply the finishes and the conditioner. I am so confused that I kind of change it up every time I make one so I don't know if the order of operation is contributing to any of my problems or not. OR if the order of operations needs to change depending on what base of dye and marker I am using.

I have been told to condition right after you stamp and before you dye and let it sit over night.

I have been told you always put any oils conditioners or saddle soap very last because other products wont penetrate.

I have also been told it's super important to use the leather sheen finish before you finish the edges and within two hours of dying

But if a water resistant finish is applied won't it seal the leather from absorbing any other products - like conditioners, edge burnishing products and touch up dye?? I feel like if I understood the chemistry behind all of these products I would have a rule of thumb

So confused. Any advice would be excellent!

[Toolingaround]

Hi Haleyf

Bear in mind I have only been doing leather work for about a year and a half so I am still learning too. But I thought I would throw in some random tidbits if anything can help. I was just as mind boggled with finishes too in the beginning as well.

Saddle and neat lac both contain alchohol. This is what dissolves acrylic paint and yes I did discover this the hard way. So if you are using acrylics and and need to put a water proof finish use something like resolene. Personally I hate resolene and will use craft acrylic varnish like Ceramcoat or Folk art from Walmart. I make stuff for my husband who LARPS ( live action role plays) rain or shine. One larper here on leatherworker.net uses MogPodge on his gear. He can go swimming in it. I am planing to try that out at some point. So the good news if you need to take off an acrylic boo boo use alchohol :-)

For metallics I use again good old acrylic craft paint so far so good.

Now that said I personally love saddle lac I am sure once I get my hands on neat lac I will love it too. I have used saddle lac over acrylics but it is risky. Once the alcohol is evaporated it is not a danger to the acrylics anymore but trying to get it on there is not for the faint of heart. I would use a coat of leather sheen over the acrylic. Put on with a sponge, excess wiped off and a quick brush with an old tooth brush so it is not pooled and to break up any bubbles. Then I put a thin coat of saddle lac on sprayed on a piece of Sheeps wool and quickly rubbed on. Hopefully it removes some of the saddle lac not your paint job. I don't recommend this but I did my cell phone case this way out of ignorance at the time that I use every day. It has metallics on it as well as regular paint and acrylic antique stain. Yep I did loose some of the acrylic but that finish has held up really well so even a disaster can work out in the end.

As for OMG I forgot to condition my leather and I am half way through painting! Don't panic I have done this so many times. I use either lexol brown bottle or my fave lexol NF (non darkening) and apply it liberally to the back of the leather. It won't hurt the finish on the front. It will be fine.

So after all that long winded blathering what I really wanted to tell you is that you will find what works for you with the products you can get your hands on. Do tests and keep notes on everything !! Keep notes on the disasters and the successes and you will find what works for you and if a year from now something you made has an issue or worked out great you can go back in your notes and replicate the effect.

Which reminds me I just finished my first helm for my hubby and have to go make notes. Cause I sure won't remember a few months from now if I have to make another one :-)

Good luck eh let us know how it goes.

Cheers, Toolingaround

PS I read the saddle makers form a lot and get tips from my local saddle maker. He clued me into lexol NF. I figure they out to know. If it can survive being on a horse it can survive on my husband or a dog :-)

[Toolingaround]

Hey I just realized Newbie started the post.

Hi

I hope some of that blabber can be of any use :-)

We have all been there.

Cheers, Toolingaround

[5avan10]

I can't speak much about conditioners and finishes as I don't have much experience there yet, but I can say as an artist that Sharpie markers aren't a good choice for your work. Most colors of Sharpie markers, after about 800 hours' exposure to the sun, will have faded away to almost nothing. This sounds like a lot of time, but on a dog collar, assuming the dog gets to be outdoors for an average of 3 hours each day, the markings won't even last a full year.

[ReneeCanady]

Oh man, I think I am confussed now. I use neatsfoot oil, then stain, then acrylic, then a spray finish. I sometimes use aussie conditioner as a finish, but do not know if that hold up long term. I will find out at some point I guess. I like the aussie because it gives the gloss of super sheen and in my opinion is a little more water proof. I can finish something with super sheen, dry, then trinkle with water and it does repel it mostly, but with aussie it seems like it beads up and completely runs off.

[Toolingaround]

Hi ReneeCanady

Ya that sounds about right but even if you goof up the order of things it is often still going to work out just fine. You don't nessesarily need to use a spray finish over acrylics just be careful with anything with alcohol in it. For me things always spray on too thick out of the can or I can't get it even. I don't have an airbrush or anything like that yet but I hear they work well.

Thanks for the info on Aussie conditioner. I would like to try that at some point.

I agree with the sharpie advice as I have seen sharpies fade and blead on other materials so I don't trust them on leather. That said many people use them on leather and love them.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post to always build up thin layers of acrylic paint. Looks much nicer that way espeshaly the metallics. Sometimes I will use a base coat of another color under the metallics to intensify them.

Good luck, do tests and go for it. There are so many ways to do things. Don't stress about doing things "right" just find out what is right for you.

Cheers, Toolingaround

[Toolingaround]

Hi again

I just realized my earlier post is a wee bit confusing. I should clarify I love saddle lac but don't use it anymore over acrylics.

My favorite finish is a version of the traditional neat lac and feibings antique paste finish only I use saddle lac because I don't have neat lac and I am not fond of toluene.

In general I tool sometimes conditioning the leather first if it is dry. Then oil if I have not done it yet, alcohol based dye, resist with either leather sheen or saddle lac, then feibings antique paste, either another layer of leather sheen and saddle lac or strait to saddle lac. I find that water proof and forgiving if the piece gets wet from the back. I do sometimes get very fine cracking from the saddle lace but I don't mind it. That is just what works for me with my collection of products on hand and I often good up the steps and things work out. If I am using acrylics I use an acrylic sealer of some sort now days.

Honestly I am not trying to be a know it all just thought I better clarifie what I am doing.

Have a good one everybody

Cheers Toolingaround